Australian Crime Commission investigation finds widespread doping

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Galic Ho said:
Bet you had a fun night tonight?

Cover up? First full game of league I have watched all year was tonight because I had nothing better to do.

Was wall to wall laughs. Both teams are on the gear and well, it's obvious. Mitchell Pearce is a completely different player from years ago when I watched occasionally. Sonny Bill? Full natty man. As for the Newie boys? Yeah I'm sure they are running on pineapple juice and cream puffs only at training. It doesn't take the Ducks Nuts for one to notice the obvious. Buderus is 35, left because he was TOO OLD years back and now is back and looking better than ever (no pun intended with his injury).

You want to get ahead, use a program. Sheesh. The build on most of these guys gives it away. If you're not on something, you're going to get rolled every week.

But of course, only the Roosters are cheating. You enjoy next weekend won't you. ;)
Of course, it's been rife in the NRL for years. An old high school friend was the reserve grade fullback for the Tigers in the mid 2000's and filled in for Brett Hodgson at firsts a few times in the 3 seasons he was there. Amazing player, skilled, agile, with speed to burn.

His one issue was that he just couldn't get heavier than about 75-76 kgs naturally even though he's just under 6ft. In his few chances at NRL level he was excellent in attack but just couldn't handle big guys at speed. Even 5-10 years previously he would have been fine but the way players have been bulking up the last 10 -15 years is incredible.

Players like Jason Taylor, Brett Hodgson, Ben Ikin, Michael Potter, Greg Alexander, Chicka Ferguson, Darren Albert and even Darren Lockyer in his early years would be smashed off the park these days.

The steroid and HGH use is getting beyond ludicrous. Dave Taylor putting on nearly 30 kg's in an off season, Danny Buderus coming back bigger, stronger and fitter at 35 than he was at 30, Sonny Bill and Paul Gallen hitting like props, running like centres and looking like cheesegraters is just too much. Even halfbacks look like hookers or centres now, the NRL needs to pull their collective heads out of the sand, fast. Its credibility is getting fragile.
 
Jun 25, 2013
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Finally. 34 show cause notices issued to Essendon players. More to come soon, I haven't heard whether James Hird has also received a notice. Reports so far saying players only.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-football-club-players-issued-with-showcause-notices-by-asada-over-2012-supplements-scandal/story-fni5f22o-1226952296676

Edit:

Also 17 Cronulla Sharks to get show cause notices.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/asada-set-to-issue-51-players-with-drug-notices-20140612-3a0es.html

Interesting that ASADA refused to serve on the Essendon appointed legal, they insisted on serving players directly and advising not to share details with their club.

The notices are for use of thymosin Beta 4, not AOD9604.
 
May 2, 2010
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M Sport said:
Finally. 34 show cause notices issued to Essendon players. More to come soon, I haven't heard whether James Hird has also received a notice. Reports so far saying players only.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-football-club-players-issued-with-showcause-notices-by-asada-over-2012-supplements-scandal/story-fni5f22o-1226952296676

Edit:

Also 17 Cronulla Sharks to get show cause notices.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/asada-set-to-issue-51-players-with-drug-notices-20140612-3a0es.html

Interesting that ASADA refused to serve on the Essendon appointed legal, they insisted on serving players directly and advising not to share details with their club.

The notices are for use of thymosin Beta 4, not AOD9604.
Good to see these finally issued. Hopefully due to the length of time it took means that ASADA have done their due diligence and the players will likely be found guilty. If a lot of the Essendon players get suspended, I hope Hird's farcical 1 year ban is substantially increased.
 
Thymosin beta 4 explained .....

https://theconversation.com/cronulla-sharks-and-thymosin-beta-4-is-it-doping-12694

a substance or method is prohibited and considered doping if WADA determines it meets any two of the following three criteria:

1. Medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological effect, or experience that the use of the substance or method represents an actual or potential health risk to the athlete.

2. Medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological effect, or experience that the substance or method has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance.

3. Determination by WADA that the use of the substance or method violates the spirit of sport.

So, to determine if TB-4 should fall under the list of prohibited substances, it can be evaluated here based on the following criteria: health, performance-enhancing and spirit of sport.
My take:

A) Dank was pushing the boundary lines looking for legal ways to enhance player performance and/or recovery - did he step over the line? On #3 the use of mass injections of players would suggest Yes.

B) However, WADA guidelines on the use of Peptides such as Thymosin beta 4 are not well defined - or were less well defined in 2011 at the time of the alleged offenses?

C) ASADA will try to prosecute based on A.

D) Dank, Essendon and Cronulla or players' lawyers will base their defense on B.

E) The difficulty for ASADA will be proving 2 out of 3.

F) The press conference held in 2013 was timed as political diversion but it did have some basis in fact - otherwise the newly elected government would have squashed it by now, especially in the recent Federal budget savings measures.

G) Knowing the mentality of many League players (natural talent trumping hard work and personal sacrifice) I would not be surprised these types with looking for shortcuts to achieve a physical advantage. Less so than with endurance athletes like road cyclists who by the time they qualify for the professional ranks would be more accustomed to long term suffering in training as part of the sport/job.

H) James Hird was naive. But Naivety should be no defense when you are the head coach getting paid good money. Dank was acting as agent for Hird. As the principle Hird still takes responsibility for Dank's actions. However as there appears to be no deliberate intent by Hird to cheat I don't think his penalty should be increased.
 
2. Medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological effect, or experience that the substance or method has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance.

That and the spirit of the sport (i.e. not using an protracted intravenous program for the sole purpose of aiding player's performance) would seem to me to be sufficient to meet the WADA guidelines.

To argue 2 is not the case, it would need to be demonstrated they were conducting a protracted intravenous program that was not designed to enhance performance or had the potential to enhance performance. If it were not for that purpose, then why were they doing it?

My hope is that all involved receive fair hearing and appropriate justice occurs. Whether or not that means people are guilty is another matter.
 
Jun 25, 2013
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It is very interesting the debate as to culpability of the Essendon players.

One side of the argument goes is that these players were in the hands of the team doctors' and coach's knowledge and were following their instructions and advice in good faith to what they seemed were legitimate programs. This is assuming the players had no knowledge first hand that they may have been taking substances that were banned.

The other side of the argument is the strict liability one. No matter whether the players were acting in good faith and had no knowledge, the fact that they took banned substances should mean they are sanctioned.

And, of course, I think we should look at the overall deterrence factor here. If CAS, where this matter will probably be ultimately decided at, come to the conclusion that it is the doctors and coaches that should solely take the fall then what is stopping teams just buying coaches/doctors to develop sophisticated doping programs if the players aren't going to be held responsible and they indemnify the coaches/doctors any cost of legal action against them.

Personally, I take the strict liability one and if the players can establish that they had no knowledge and were doing it in good faith well that of course can be taken into account when assessing the severity of the punishment.

I would also just like to say that if some of these players (not the ones who had started at the club when this alleged doping programme was introduced) but if they had been with the club before for a couple of years and were on some sort of legal supplements program and then started on a new supplements program that they thought was legal also surely they would be asking questions of their doctors/coach what type of drug they were on if they were getting better performance or recovery??
 
May 2, 2010
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darwin553 said:
It is very interesting the debate as to culpability of the Essendon players.

One side of the argument goes is that these players were in the hands of the team doctors' and coach's knowledge and were following their instructions and advice in good faith to what they seemed were legitimate programs. This is assuming the players had no knowledge first hand that they may have been taking substances that were banned.

The other side of the argument is the strict liability one. No matter whether the players were acting in good faith and had no knowledge, the fact that they took banned substances should mean they are sanctioned.

And, of course, I think we should look at the overall deterrence factor here. If CAS, where this matter will probably be ultimately decided at, come to the conclusion that it is the doctors and coaches that should solely take the fall then what is stopping teams just buying coaches/doctors to develop sophisticated doping programs if the players aren't going to be held responsible and they indemnify the coaches/doctors any cost of legal action against them.

Personally, I take the strict liability one and if the players can establish that they had no knowledge and were doing it in good faith well that of course can be taken into account when assessing the severity of the punishment.

I would also just like to say that if some of these players (not the ones who had started at the club when this alleged doping programme was introduced) but if they had been with the club before for a couple of years and were on some sort of legal supplements program and then started on a new supplements program that they thought was legal also surely they would be asking questions of their doctors/coach what type of drug they were on if they were getting better performance or recovery??
To be honest, I'd be OK with the players getting reduced suspensions if all of the officials involved in implementing the program were given life bans from sport.

Unfortunately for the players, it seems like Essendon are taking the Lance route, and are challenging ASADA in court - http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-challenges-asada-afl-20140613-3a2j4.html.

It will be interesting to see if any of the players stop using the services of the lawyer provided for them by Essendon, and hire their own legal advice.
 
Re: Australian Crime Commission investigation finds widespre

BullsFan22 said:
There is no widespread doping in Australia. Australia is not part of Eastern Europe.
Confirmed. But we export doping worldwide, even to Australia. I can send you samples for free. I don't need to know what you'll do with them. Bruyneel, Armstrong, Verbruggen, Ferrari... all these names sound so eastern european.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re: Re:

biker jk said:
thrawn said:
observer said:
Contaminated meat claim incoming.
Yes, the team already claimed they ate beef in New Zealand. Then the NZ beef industry responded by informing the suggestion it sold contaminated meat was outrageous.

yes, lets wait and see and I hope the Kiwi beef producers and the cows go all Oprah Winfrey on Collingwood.

when Oprah was sued for the mad cow disease scare about 15 years back
 
The two Collingwood players should get two year, but so should have the Essendon players and they got away with it.

Australia does not have a doping problem, Warne didn't dope he just trusted his mum, female swimmer (can't remember which one) only accidentally took the drug when taking a tablet for something not a doper. Stuart O'Grady only doped once, Essendon players didn't dope they just were used by their club, Collingwood players just ate some contaminated meat. Note a real doper among them, nothing like those dirty foreigners who steal medals for the poor victimized Australians. When Australians do win it is because they have overcome the odds and are just great athletes.

I think I will go a vomit.
 
Mar 27, 2014
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Maybe someone in Australia should actually read the book "positive" which was written by an Australian athlete about his and the AIS systemic doping and seems to be the only book that no-on in australia has read or can ever remember being published. And that was a book on the doping culture of the aussies from 20 years ago now!!!!
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

robertmooreheadlane said:
Maybe someone in Australia should actually read the book "positive" which was written by an Australian athlete about his and the AIS systemic doping and seems to be the only book that no-on in australia has read or can ever remember being published. And that was a book on the doping culture of the aussies from 20 years ago now!!!!
Werner Reiterer.

was he hammer throw? I dont think it was shot put, so must have been the hammer throw.

you cant get the book now, but I know someone who offered to lend it to me to read it, but it is all white noise to me. I know they dope.
 

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