• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Badzilla, the disease of champions

Page 5 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
Cycle Chic said:
Again reiterates it 'feeds on red blood cells' interesting that he wants this known...
Click to expand...

reminds me a bit of alberto contador during his first press conference shortly after his clen-positive. In that press conference he stressed that the meat he had eaten on that famous 2nd restday was vacuum-packed in plastic.
There I was wondering why he would stress such a detail? Indeed, a couple of days later rumors started leaking about his positive plasticizer test.
With that detail about the meat being vacuum packed he had given himself a retrospective alibi for the plasticizer positive.

Successful doping is about much much more than just the actual act of juicing. It's about thinking several steps ahead and about having a script with clever lies, alibis, etc.
(cf. also Brailsford's anticipating Froome going full genius on the Axe-3D by predicting clean times will soon surpass doped times)
 
B

bewildered

Jul 15, 2013
550
0
0
Visit site
Cycle Chic said:
In this Interview for Sportsvibe TV which was done in December 2012 he says it was diagnosed END OF 2009. Talks quite a bit about the disease at 3mins 15seconds. Again reiterates it 'feeds on red blood cells' interesting that he wants this known...and also again states he gets treatment every 6 months and its ongoing treatment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGZUBtcN2Gk
Click to expand...

'It's an absolute pain to try and get rid of'. :rolleyes:

Froome is on the record as saying that is was diagnosed in Dec 2010 in Kenya by the blood passport testers.

Is there any record of when BP tests were carried out or the gaps between tests in order to build a blood profile? Might this disease recur every time a BP test is due? Do the testers have any idea of Froome's natural/normal blood levels?
 
B

Bobito

Oct 25, 2012
67
0
0
Visit site
Froomstrong said:
Is it really necessary to go to Africa to get it treated?
"He returns every six months to Africa for a course of treatment"

As people who live in Europe could be affected while in Africa, wouldn't it be possible to be treated in Europe. I would guess that a city like London would be have a few doses in stock.
Click to expand...

this seems to answer your question:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/schistosomiasis/Pages/Introduction.aspx
 
J

Jahudor

Jul 16, 2013
62
0
0
Visit site
bewildered said:
'It's an absolute pain to try and get rid of'. :rolleyes:

Froome is on the record as saying that is was diagnosed in Dec 2010 in Kenya by the blood passport testers.

Is there any record of when BP tests were carried out or the gaps between tests in order to build a blood profile? Might this disease recur every time a BP test is due? Do the testers have any idea of Froome's natural/normal blood levels?
Click to expand...

These are all very relevant questions. I don't know whether you have read the whole thread, but there is speculation about certain 'advantages' for having the symptoms of Bilharzia with regard to PED's use. As far as I know Froome is treated every six months for this disease in Kenya. I think it is not very likely he will be subject to out of competition controls while being there. Moreover, he claimed not to be able to train during these periods of treatment.

To add something to the suspicion, it is already very unlikely to have to be treated more than once for Bilharzia. In more extreme cases it is possible to use the cure during follow-up each six months for a total of 36 months. I have never read about a case where someone had to be treated for Bilharzia for more than 36 months. It is at least very unlikely for this disease to recur.
It is also very strange that there are so many inconsistencies to be found between what Froom said about it, but also with regard to what Julich and Brailsfor said about it.
 
B

bewildered

Jul 15, 2013
550
0
0
Visit site
Jahudor said:
These are all very relevant questions. I don't know whether you have read the whole thread, but there is speculation about certain 'advantages' for having the symptoms of Bilharzia with regard to PED's use. As far as I know Froome is treated every six months for this disease in Kenya. I think it is not very likely he will be subject to out of competition controls while being there. Moreover, he claimed not to be able to train during these periods of treatment.

To add something to the suspicion, it is already very unlikely to have to be treated more than once for Bilharzia. In more extreme cases it is possible to use the cure during follow-up each six months for a total of 36 months. I have never read about a case where someone had to be treated for Bilharzia for more than 36 months. It is at least very unlikely for this disease to recur.
It is also very strange that there are so many inconsistencies to be found between what Froom said about it, but also with regard to what Julich and Brailsfor said about it.
Click to expand...

I have read the whole thread. The quote from Julich is below:-

'In the 2011 Tour of California, he was amazing one day and really bad the next. So we tested for Bilharzia again and sure enough he had it. And once he got treatment, he started progressing again'

I don't think this relates to initial diagnosis, but a recurrence (perhaps the first recurrence), so I don't think that's inconsistent at all.

Was there another quote from Julich tho?

We know from what Sky have said that he 'probably' had it since late 2009. If it does affect RBCs and he has had it since, getting treatments every 6 months then is it possible for the BP testers to know what his normal levels are? Assuming it does indeed affect RBCs
 
S

Stradebianche

Jul 16, 2013
58
0
0
Visit site
bewildered said:
I have read the whole thread. The quote from Julich is below:-

'In the 2011 Tour of California, he was amazing one day and really bad the next. So we tested for Bilharzia again and sure enough he had it. And once he got treatment, he started progressing again'

I don't think this relates to initial diagnosis, but a recurrence (perhaps the first recurrence), so I don't think that's inconsistent at all.

Was there another quote from Julich tho?

We know from what Sky have said that he 'probably' had it since late 2009. If it does affect RBCs and he has had it since, getting treatments every 6 months then is it possible for the BP testers to know what his normal levels are? Assuming it does indeed affect RBCs
Click to expand...

Having had chance to read the study linked by Mr.38% it seems pretty clear that there was no effect in males on the RBC count between the infected subjects and the control group.
Haemocrit levels are largely unaltered except for a slight reversible decrease in level between midly and severely infected subjects.

Could this represent an opportunity to be raising crit on this basis?

Its seems to me that his normal levels could anything you would like them to be ;)

So much conflictimg info about when he caught this thing,the recent article i linked said he caught it as a child.
 
Z

zalacain

Jul 13, 2009
504
0
9,580
Visit site
thehog said:
Why do the British use the word "stool" for ***?
Click to expand...
Because all good cycling docs use this for quick diagnosis
350px-Bristol_stool_chart.svg.png
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
10,645
20
22,510
Visit site
bewildered said:
...
I don't think this relates to initial diagnosis, but a recurrence (perhaps the first recurrence), so I don't think that's inconsistent at all.
Click to expand...

Except the disease is cured by current drugs. In some cases more than one administration is required, but there is a cure. As in, no more parasite.

The only way to reacquire the disease after the cure is to expose yourself to the snails again. End of story.

As mentioned in another post, the cure is distributed worldwide. There's no need to fly to South Africa to get it.
 
B

bewildered

Jul 15, 2013
550
0
0
Visit site
DirtyWorks said:
Except the disease is cured by current drugs. In some cases more than one administration is required, but there is a cure. As in, no more parasite.

The only way to reacquire the disease after the cure is to expose yourself to the snails again. End of story.

As mentioned in another post, the cure is distributed worldwide. There's no need to fly to South Africa to get it.
Click to expand...

No no, I agree with you. I am just saying it is not inconsistent with Sky's story, there are inconsistencies from Sky as to when he was diagnosed but Julich's quote doesn't relate to initial diagnosis
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
10,645
20
22,510
Visit site
sniper said:
reminds me a bit of alberto contador during his first press conference shortly after his clen-positive. In that press conference he stressed that the meat he had eaten on that famous 2nd restday was vacuum-packed in plastic.
There I was wondering why he would stress such a detail? Indeed, a couple of days later rumors started leaking about his positive plasticizer test.
With that detail about the meat being vacuum packed he had given himself a retrospective alibi for the plasticizer positive.

Successful doping is about much much more than just the actual act of juicing. It's about thinking several steps ahead and about having a script with clever lies, alibis, etc.
(cf. also Brailsford's anticipating Froome going full genius on the Axe-3D by predicting clean times will soon surpass doped times)
Click to expand...

Any chance there's a link for that?

Did he eat the packaging with the beef, THEN the plastic made it into his blood?

That's maybe the third-ranked excuse behind the ephemeral twin and badzilla.
 
J

Jahudor

Jul 16, 2013
62
0
0
Visit site
bewildered said:
I have read the whole thread. The quote from Julich is below:-

'In the 2011 Tour of California, he was amazing one day and really bad the next. So we tested for Bilharzia again and sure enough he had it. And once he got treatment, he started progressing again'

I don't think this relates to initial diagnosis, but a recurrence (perhaps the first recurrence), so I don't think that's inconsistent at all.

Was there another quote from Julich tho?

We know from what Sky have said that he 'probably' had it since late 2009. If it does affect RBCs and he has had it since, getting treatments every 6 months then is it possible for the BP testers to know what his normal levels are? Assuming it does indeed affect RBCs
Click to expand...

Maybe you are right on Julich. I will check whether I can find another quote, but your quote is not inconsistent with Froome's story. There are other remarkable quotes though, by Brailsford for example, who claimed the eggs could hatch. As far as I know they don't hatch inside the human body at all.

Yes, BP testers should have his blood values of 2008 for example, while has was riding for Barloworld. It would be interesting to know whether Bilharzia is accepted by he UCI as a cause for sudden changes in blood values in 2009 and thereafter. I don't think Froome has to prove that he still has the parasites to any independent organization. So it is, however speculative, possible that Bilharzia is a coverstory for BP manipulation.
 
J

Jahudor

Jul 16, 2013
62
0
0
Visit site
Stradebianche said:
Having had chance to read the study linked by Mr.38% it seems pretty clear that there was no effect in males on the RBC count between the infected subjects and the control group.
Haemocrit levels are largely unaltered except for a slight reversible decrease in level between midly and severely infected subjects.

Could this represent an opportunity to be raising crit on this basis?

Its seems to me that his normal levels could anything you would like them to be ;)

So much conflictimg info about when he caught this thing,the recent article i linked said he caught it as a child.
Click to expand...

Let's for the sake of the argument assume that this does provide a base to raise hemotocrit - what would he use to do that? Microdosing EPO might be an option for sure, perhaps combined with GAS6 treatment where Leinders supposedly worked on? AICAR for example doesn't raise hemotocrit as far as I know , but I might be wrong about that.
 
M

mudbone

Jul 15, 2013
60
0
0
Visit site
just ftr, as i see it was quoted a couple of times earlier in the thread, this is the last updated timeline from froome's own print media quotes;

Between 2009/2010 - Contraction

"I probably had it for year before I found it." (Sep '11)

"I found it 18 months ago and they had probably been in my system for a year before that." (May '12)

Dec 2010 - Diagnosis (and presumably Treatment)

"Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year." (Sep '11)

"I kept getting sick so something wasn't right. I'd gone to Kenya to see family and did the normal UCI blood passport tests. At the same time I said to the doctor, 'Can't you scan for anything that's not right in my blood?' He came back straight away and said you're riddled with bilharzia." (Jan '13)

Jul 2011 - Treatment

"I had to re-do the treatment after the Tour de Suisse this year. Since then, I have been a lot more consistent and good in my training." (Sep '11)

March/April 2012 - Treatment

"I took the treatment three weeks ago and I've got to wait six months to see if it's still active or not." (May '12)

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up. I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September." (Jul '12)

“I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite. I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.” (Dec '12)

January 2013 - Treatment

”I do go for a check-up every six months. The last was in January and it was still in my system. I take Biltricide. It kills the parasite in the system.” (Jul '13)

"In terms of that illness, I actually went for a check 10 days ago and found out that I did have to repeat the treatment again. It means these big pills that basically poison you and kill everything in your stomach and I took that in the last week. I am feeling much better now and hopefully I am in the clear for another six months or so." (Jan '13)
Click to expand...
 
Froomster

Froomster

Jul 18, 2013
187
0
0
Visit site
His schistosomiasis infection was discovered by the blood passport testers (or at around the same time this was occurring).

Schistosomiasis lowers hemoglobin, which raises EPO levels. It might therefore be speculated that his blood passport shows elevated EPO levels, explained by his parasitic infestation.

So long as the infection continues, one might speculate that his EPO levels would remain elevated beyond normal, thus giving continuing rationale for his EPO levels remaining elevated, in accordance with his infected blood passport readings. [Not that I'm saying that I have seen anywhere that his blood passport EPO levels are elevated.]

A one-shot treatment which cures schistosomiasis in the rest of the population is powerless to clear up Froome's condition for over two years.

Happily, this ongoing infestation coincides with his rise from mediocre to the world's premier road racer.

Convenient, no?

Perhaps all professional riders should swim in Kenya at least once each year.
 
A

Almeisan

Jul 10, 2013
335
29
9,330
Visit site
Should riders where the biological passport cannot be applied due to medical issues be allowed to race?
It's not really a level playing field when some have to strictly follow a certain protocol and face the consequences.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom