Bahati screwed by Landis?

[SpeedWay]

While that might be a point of view worthy of debate, IMO, if pro cycling burns, at least in the US and maybe Europe it will not recover, at least not for a long time. Many teams will loose their sponsorship, good people will loose their jobs and races, already on shaky ground due to the economy will loose sponsors and shut down.

I know for a lot of people who post here, no price is too big to pay to bring down Lance Armstrong, but I'm guessing it's not their jobs that will be effected if pro cycling "burns"

Plus, I'm not so sure that even if it where to be "rebuilt" it will be very much different in regards to PEDs. PEDs have been a part of pro sports for as long as there have been PEDs and I suspect that as long as there is big money to be made throwing a ball, or racing a bicycle and as long as everybody loves a winner and nobody loves a looser PEDs will be with us. (2nd, place, just the first place looser and nothing is worse than a doper - except for someone who races like they're clean). That's something probably no one, including those who are using the PEDs are happy about, but we don't live in a pure realm of clean and righteous sportsmanship. Pro athletics is a competitive business and anyone in business will tell you, it's always a game of pushing the limits to find an edge.

None of that's to say the best possible anti doping techniques and strong rules fairly and completely enforced shouldn't be part of the game, But IMO, to think that any pro sport is ever going to be some bastion of clean sportsmanship is a bit naive.

It's NAIVE, not naive. In mythology the Phoenix always burns, is reborn, and all is well. In fantasy land, pro cycling will burn, be reborn and all will be well. You're trying to explain the real world to people who live in fantasy land without the benefit of a myth. But you know what they say, good intentions pave the road to heLL.

 

[progressor]

Well. Cycling MUST burn to be rebuilt...... so let it burn.

why do you assume it can or will be rebuilt if it burns?

 

[dolophonic]

So Landis brings OUCH with him when he signs in March (pretty late don't ya think?). OUCH leaves with Landis in late May (after what, a whopping 70 days?). Bahati team is immediately in financial distress.

How the hell is this on Floyd?

.....

+1 yes...

 

[Anonymous]

How the hell is this on Floyd?

I say it's on Floyd because I'm sure that part of him joining was because he could bring in OUCH to help finance the team with the assumption that Floyd would continue to ride and keep his nose clean and continue to race hard like he had the previous year with OUCH-Maxxis. In essence, a savior to a team that dearly needed $$$ help.

So the ship is sailing along smoothly but after a couple months, your $$ engine decides to "come clean" and drop a bomb on the sport. All the while, Bahati's team is left to flounder in the water with no life preserver. (ie - when Floyd leaves, so does title sponsor; being that the only reason OUCH was there was because Floyd was.)

If Floyd had decided to come clean before he and OUCH joined Bahati instead of waiting until he found out that the ToC decided not to invite the team then maybe Team Bahati would have, one, found another sponsor that would stay for a whole season or more, or two, the team would have been on hold and all the riders and team would have found other jobs to earn a living. Now because OUCH walked away with Floyd mid-season the team cannot afford to pay their people.

By Floyd confessing when he did he directly affected his team's future and the livelihood of those members on the team. So yes, Floyd screwed Bahati.

 

[scribe]

So Landis brings OUCH with him when he signs in March (pretty late don't ya think?). OUCH leaves with Landis in late May (after what, a whopping 70 days?). Bahati team is immediately in financial distress.

How the hell is this on Floyd?

.........................

“Ultimately it was a failure,” Bahati said of Landis’s time with the team. “We accepted him with open arms. Of course you knew he had baggage but at the time it looked like that was over with. If we had known he was going to come out with that information of course we would not have signed him.”

 

[Dr. Maserati]

.........................

“Ultimately it was a failure,” Bahati said of Landis’s time with the team. “We accepted him with open arms. Of course you knew he had baggage but at the time it looked like that was over with. If we had known he was going to come out with that information of course we would not have signed him.”

Hmmm.... you didn't highlight the rest of Bahati's quote, let me help you.

“I knew what was going on but not to that magnitude. I knew that Floyd wanted to come clean, better himself and get that burden off him. I didn’t know he was going to name names.”

So, it wasn't that Floyd came clean - it was that he named names.

 

[scribe]

Hmmm.... you didn't highlight the rest of Bahati's quote, let me help you.



So, it wasn't that Floyd came clean - it was that he named names.

And, how exactly did the rest of the article create a different perception....if that was the intent? Point is, the team felt they miscalculated when signing FL, as this thread suggests, and they paid dearly for it. Coming clean and naming names has its advantages and disadvantages.

 

[BroDeal]

And, how exactly did the rest of the article create a different perception....if that was the intent? Point is, the team felt they miscalculated when signing FL, as this thread suggests, and they paid dearly for it. Coming clean and naming names has its advantages and disadvantages.

Bahati's statement does not make a lot of sense. His team would have folded two months ago if it were not for FLandis.

His team looks like it was a poorly conceived endeavor from the beginning that was set up quickly in the aftermath of the Rock Racing implosion. Bahati simply does not have the stature to pull off a self named charitable foundation capable of supporting a team. He should have signed a traditional sponsor and then signed the riders that the sponsorship could support. Instead he expected money to come into the team after signing riders. That was a bad bet, especially in this economy. Aside from OUCH, serious money never appeared. The team was doomed from the beginning.

 

[scribe]

Bahati's statement does not make a lot of sense. His team would have folded two months ago if it were not for FLandis.

His team looks like it was a poorly conceived endeavor from the beginning that was set up quickly in the aftermath of the Rock Racing implosion. Bahati simply does not have the stature to pull off a self named charitable foundation capable of supporting a team. He should have signed a traditional sponsor and then signed the riders that the sponsorship could support. Instead he expected money to come into the team after signing riders. That was a bad bet, especially in this economy. Aside from OUCH, serious money never appeared. The team was doomed from the beginning.

I thought Bahati was rather fair and supportive of Landis. But at the end of the day, the team fell on the sword with Landis, much to the credible debate of how healthy the team was with or without FL.

I don't much care either way, but these situations have real consequences to riders and teams who may or may not need doping intervention.

 

[Anonymous]

No sponsor is going to step in that wake.

There was a team before OUCH stepped in, but apparently no money.

With the Flandis "cancer" gone, why would'nt a sponsor step in?

 

[this_is_edie]

There was a team before OUCH stepped in, but apparently no money.

With the Flandis "cancer" gone, why would'nt a sponsor step in?

well there was a team with no sponsor and no money. If they couldn't get a sponsor then why would a sponsor come through now?

 

[offbyone]

The simple answer is yes, bahati and all it's riders got screwed by landis.

 

[Anonymous]

.........................

“Ultimately it was a failure,” Bahati said of Landis’s time with the team. “We accepted him with open arms. Of course you knew he had baggage but at the time it looked like that was over with. If we had known he was going to come out with that information of course we would not have signed him.”

And if Bahati continued he would have said something like " we only had enough money for 90 days and we thought we could attract a sponsor in that time. We actually did with OUCH, but of course there was baggage. We gambled and we lost. Simple as that."

 

[Anonymous]

The simple answer is yes, bahati and all it's riders got screwed by landis.

No. The lack of funding was a problem before Floyd was involved.

 

[Anonymous]

well there was a team with no sponsor and no money. If they couldn't get a sponsor then why would a sponsor come through now?

Valid question. So what does this have to do with Floyd? If anything, the existing riders drew a paycheck longer than they otherwise would have but not for OUCH.

 

[this_is_edie]

Valid question. So what does this have to do with Floyd? If anything, the existing riders drew a paycheck longer than they otherwise would have but not for OUCH.

yep, I don't think it has anything to do with Floyd per say.

Bahati brought Floyd on board to get a sponsor and to try and get into the Tour of California. They got a sponsor to pay the bills and salaries for 70 days (or so).

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmm.... you didn't highlight the rest of Bahati's quote, let me help you.



So, it wasn't that Floyd came clean - it was that he named names.

Kind of frightening coming from Bahati, isn't it? On one hand he states he has no idea (doping culture) as he's never raced on that level. On the other hand, he raced with a group of questionable guys at RR, including Kayle Leogrande.

I don't know if this is omerta, but what else could it be?

 

[janus1969]

I don't know if this is omerta, but what else could it be?

Seriously?! It's that someone who Bahati gave a hand to decided to come clean, which is something that Bahati knew FLandis wanted. HOWEVER, in doing so, FLandis threw mud everywhere. Regardless of whether he's telling the truth, FLandis had to KNOW he was cratering not only himself, but also his team. Moreover, if there was a true, contrite heart in there, he KNEW when he signed with Bahati that he was going to do this, so he doubly screwed 'em.

It's amazing how the conspiracy theorists here interpret things...like I said in an earlier thread, this is the perfect situation for them. If it burns, they're proven right; if nothing seriously happens, it's proof of the conspiracy.

Bahati wasn't complaining about the action, but the timing and the impact.

 

[scribe]

Valid question. So what does this have to do with Floyd? If anything, the existing riders drew a paycheck longer than they otherwise would have but not for OUCH.

Well, you have a different perspective than Bahati. They understood their situation, made a decision, and paid for it in their view.

 

[offbyone]

No. The lack of funding was a problem before Floyd was involved.

That doesn't excuse what he did to them. As they say, two wrongs don't make a right. Do you think they had a chance to fix their funding problem after their star rider caused possibly some of the worst publicity for pro cycling has seen in years.

If he was even considering putting out these allegations he should not have been riding on a team or he should have disclosed his plans before joining the team. What he did, true or not, was a purely selfish vindictive act. Just like when he asked for donations for his defense and wrote a whole book about himself which turns out to be fiction. Support his cause if you want, but don't excuse him for the harm he has done.

 

[BroDeal]

Well, you have a different perspective than Bahati. They understood their situation, made a decision, and paid for it in their view.

They "paid for it" by getting the money to exist for two months more than they would have without Floyd.

 

[this_is_edie]

How did Bahati get a UCI license - don't they have to provide a bank guarantee for riders salary? Yet, Clarke is saying that riders have not been paid.

 

[scribe]

They "paid for it" by getting the money to exist for two months more than they would have without Floyd.

How do you know they didn't have options, and took a risk? Let's face it, if FL came back to 'form', he might have picked up some rather good wins. Which in turn, would snowball into better sponsorship.

Lay down with ****, wake up with stink.

 

[offbyone]

They "paid for it" by getting the money to exist for two months more than they would have without Floyd.

I can't believe you are rationalizing what he did to the innocent members of the team.

If Floyd wasn't there maybe they would have found another option to bring money in. Don't think he isn't the only athlete they could have signed and just because they had money problems doesn't mean they weren't working to solve them. Even with the problems, they probably would have finished the racing season.
I realize that you are one of the biggest lance haters on this board, hate away, by all means support what floyd has done, if that is your point of view. But don't act like there isn't collateral damage to innocent bystanders and don't pretend Floyd is some do no wrong choir boy.

 

[this_is_edie]

I can't believe you are rationalizing what he did to the innocent members of the team.

If Floyd wasn't there maybe they would have found another option to bring money in. Don't think he isn't the only athlete they could have signed and just because they had money problems doesn't mean they weren't working to solve them. Even with the problems, they probably would have finished the racing season.
I realize that you are one of the biggest lance haters on this board, hate away, by all means support what floyd has done, if that is your point of view. But don't act like there isn't collateral damage to innocent bystanders and don't pretend Floyd is some do no wrong choir boy.

Not so sure they would have been able to finish the season without OUCH/Landis.

From the Clarke interview:

"OUCH was an emergency stop gap, we had money, we ran out, OUCH stepped in for one month, they stepped out," he added. "Our title sponsor is gone so we are working feverishly to get a new one. We are working on a very short term basis right now." - that's from Nathan O'Neill.

Bahati did a deal with the devil so to speak by signing Landis and all his baggage. They needed the sponsor money to survive and were hoping that it would also get them an invite for Tour of California.

They didn't have a viable situation before OUCH/Landis signed on. Maybe with the new management they've just put in place they'll be able to get a new sponsor.