Teams & Riders Bahrain

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This is a Bahrain thread. Van Aert certainly is as suspicious as heck, and at least one part of his profile is crazy, but there is a thread all about just him.

Bahrain is loony. I mean, Haig and Landa themselves are not really an issue, it's all the other crazy. I mean, politics aside, the team has done enough to end up getting a police raid this year. That is obvious

And Colbrelli ... He certainly seems to have kicked it up a number of notches this year.
 
When was Van Aert's first impressive climbing performance? I would say that he didn't show at any time before the lockdowns that he could climb fairly well. That is, before the lockdowns he has shown less in the mountains than Froome before the 2011 Vuelta, then out of nowhere he was able to finish first among the favourites after the breakaway in the last big mountain stage of the Tour. That's a way bigger and more sudden transformation than that of Colbrelli.
Oh come on, neither of them are very comparable to Froome. He wasn't even demonstrating a solid road race results before the 2011 Vuelta.
 
Is impossible to compare. The rise of Wout to winning a HC mountain stage in a GT is certainly a much faster progression than Froomes. Wout's came in 2021 Tour de France beating Ellisonde & Pogacar iirc, but that's only his 2nd ever HC stage he's ever faced in his career, the first HC stage he finished half an hour down, but probably domestique anyway like much of Froomes early career. Froomes first came years after his first HC stage. Either way, I can't see Wout turning into a GC rider until he puts a hold on CX & the classics and actually focuses on the mental aspect of GC racing, which is totally different than just winning a mountain stage.
 
lol u guys know literally noooothing.

you idiots seriously don’t know anything.

you make me laugh. A laugh of pity.

because if u cannot enjoy riders like WVA, then how can u possibly enjoy following cycling…?

gloriously fun
LOL! that was entertaining.....not as entertaining as bahrein but pretty good....

you're right i never even saw any cycle race...'til 1974 ...but i have been around long enough
to realise serious entertainment is more likely fuelled by more than bread and water..

Mark L
 
Is impossible to compare. The rise of Wout to winning a HC mountain stage in a GT is certainly a much faster progression than Froomes. Wout's came in 2021 Tour de France beating Ellisonde & Pogacar iirc, but that's only his 2nd ever HC stage he's ever faced in his career, the first HC stage he finished half an hour down, but probably domestique anyway like much of Froomes early career. Froomes first came years after his first HC stage. Either way, I can't see Wout turning into a GC rider until he puts a hold on CX & the classics and actually focuses on the mental aspect of GC racing, which is totally different than just winning a mountain stage.
Wout finished 19th on Col de la Loze
 
Oh come on, neither of them are very comparable to Froome. He wasn't even demonstrating a solid road race results before the 2011 Vuelta.
If you disagree with the statement, show that it is wrong. I don't think you can find a climbing performance by Van Aert before the lockdowns that was more impressive than what Froome did in the 2011 Tour de Romandie (Leysin) and the 2011 Tour de Suisse (Crans-Montana).

And this relates to Bahrain, when the discussion is about how ridiculously suspicious and over the top they are. For that you need to compare them with their competitors. Bahrain is stepping up to the same league as Jumbo, Quick-Step, and Ineos -- They are not stepping up to a level above all others.
 
Is impossible to compare. The rise of Wout to winning a HC mountain stage in a GT is certainly a much faster progression than Froomes. Wout's came in 2021 Tour de France beating Ellisonde & Pogacar iirc, but that's only his 2nd ever HC stage he's ever faced in his career, the first HC stage he finished half an hour down, but probably domestique anyway like much of Froomes early career. Froomes first came years after his first HC stage. Either way, I can't see Wout turning into a GC rider until he puts a hold on CX & the classics and actually focuses on the mental aspect of GC racing, which is totally different than just winning a mountain stage.
me neither, why focus on winning one whole race when you can win every individual stage = more wins :laughing:
 
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If you disagree with the statement, show that it is wrong. I don't think you can find a climbing performance by Van Aert before the lockdowns that was more impressive than what Froome did in the 2011 Tour de Romandie (Leysin) and the 2011 Tour de Suisse (Crans-Montana).

And this relates to Bahrain, when the discussion is about how ridiculously suspicious and over the top they are. For that you need to compare them with their competitors. Bahrain is stepping up to the same league as Jumbo, Quick-Step, and Ineos -- They are not stepping up to a level above all others.
Wasn't 2019 something van Aert's first full year in road racing and with a first Tour cut short due to a somewhat nasty crash? I think you are cherry picking specific race types and timelines to suit your purpose and I do not think they are comparable. Froome showed generally no major indications of having a major engine and his climbing, of any sort, was somewhat shyte and inconsistent before the Vuelta, then it went to world beating, coming in second to a a doper. So I think it is a misleading comparison Netserk, and in that way, not a reasonable comparison.

As for the second paragraph, I would generally agree. I don't think Bahrain is more transformational than other teams that appear to have gone full R. It is just their turn this year and obvious is obvious.
 
Reactions: SHAD0W93
you guys gotta be kidding me, the way Bahrain rode Eneco was not normal. they had two riders in the race that could do whatever they wanted, follow any attack, and they just swapped them around two stages in a row. they absolutely toyed with the race. that was nothing like Jumbo riding the Tour in a train and losing the race. WVA is absurd, but he is one guy. Bahrain have about seven of them all at once.

and then Colbrelli is the only guy who can hold Evenpoels wheel in a super hilly race. yeah right. who cares about WVA, we haven't seen anything like this since Gewiss.

Haig and Mader climbing like never before at the Vuelta. two riders in the top 5, both ahead of Egan Bernal by over 4 minutes.
 
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Haig and Mader climbing like never before at the Vuelta. two riders in the top 5, both ahead of Egan Bernal by over 4 minutes.
Mader is 24 and turned pro two years ago. Not every pro can be like Pogacar at 20. Of course he's climbing like never before. I was climbing like never before at 24 compared to just the year earlier. Yes it could be doping but at that age the mostly likely reason is natural progression.

Bernal obviously not at his best e.g. Covid.

Haig led a team for the first time in his career after being called up for Landa. Haig last finished the Vuelta in 2018 - finishing 19th on GC. That was supporting the man himself - AV. As you would know its pretty difficult to finish in the top 10 sacrificing for your leader. Ask WvA who finished 19th and 20th in the last two TdFs.

There are more suspicious riders at Bahrain than Haig and Mader
 
Wasn't 2019 something van Aert's first full year in road racing and with a first Tour cut short due to a somewhat nasty crash? I think you are cherry picking specific race types and timelines to suit your purpose and I do not think they are comparable. Froome showed generally no major indications of having a major engine and his climbing, of any sort, was somewhat shyte and inconsistent before the Vuelta, then it went to world beating, coming in second to a a doper. So I think it is a misleading comparison Netserk, and in that way, not a reasonable comparison.

As for the second paragraph, I would generally agree. I don't think Bahrain is more transformational than other teams that appear to have gone full R. It is just their turn this year and obvious is obvious.
I didn't pick it, and I used Froome merely to illustrate that Van Aert's transformation was indeed shocking and out of nowhere. I responded to this post (my emphasis):

wout has pedigree.

three world cross championships.

and as soon as he started on the road, he showed he could win sprints, TTs and climb fairly well. You ever watch Freddy Maertens in 1976-77?

colbrelli is no WVA.
Obviously, post lockdowns wasn't as soon as Van Aert started on the road, and I am yet to see anyone point to any performances of him before that which indicate that he would suddenly be able to climb mountains at an elite level. It's in the Froome/Wiggins/Thomas level of absurdity.

Colbrelli on the other hand has always been good on punchy hills. He has clearly stepped up and can sustain more watts now, but at the same time his sprint is far worse. Unlike Van Aert who can do almost everything almost all the time.
 
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you guys gotta be kidding me, the way Bahrain rode Eneco was not normal. they had two riders in the race that could do whatever they wanted, follow any attack, and they just swapped them around two stages in a row. they absolutely toyed with the race. that was nothing like Jumbo riding the Tour in a train and losing the race. WVA is absurd, but he is one guy. Bahrain have about seven of them all at once.

and then Colbrelli is the only guy who can hold Evenpoels wheel in a super hilly race. yeah right. who cares about WVA, we haven't seen anything like this since Gewiss.

Haig and Mader climbing like never before at the Vuelta. two riders in the top 5, both ahead of Egan Bernal by over 4 minutes.
A more like for like comparison with BeNeLux Tour would be Dauphiné after the lockdowns. The whole Jumbo team could do whatever they wanted there, and they were definitely as ridiculous as Bahrain.
 
Mader is 24 and turned pro two years ago. Not every pro can be like Pogacar at 20. Of course he's climbing like never before. I was climbing like never before at 24 compared to just the year earlier. Yes it could be doping but at that age the mostly likely reason is natural progression.

Bernal obviously not at his best e.g. Covid.

Haig led a team for the first time in his career after being called up for Landa. Haig last finished the Vuelta in 2018 - finishing 19th on GC. That was supporting the man himself - AV. As you would know its pretty difficult to finish in the top 10 sacrificing for your leader. Ask WvA who finished 19th and 20th in the last two TdFs.

There are more suspicious riders at Bahrain than Haig and Mader
Mader is the most believable one for sure, but he was riding in support of Haig. Later in your post you write "As you would know its pretty difficult to finish in the top 10 sacrificing for your leader" in reference to Haig's previous Vuelta. Use your own logic and apply it to Mader now. He crushed Bernal.

Bernal was not at his best, but he still did 6.5 w/kg on Collada Llomena on stage 17. He couldn't have been too far off.

There's no doubt that Haig is talented, but he took a huge step up this year, with everyone else on the Bahrain team. Of course there are more suspicious riders on Bahrain than Haig and Mader, I have listed them in this thread already, but they do have to be mentioned as well.
 
Mader is the most believable one for sure, but he was riding in support of Haig. Later in your post you write "As you would know its pretty difficult to finish in the top 10 sacrificing for your leader" in reference to Haig's previous Vuelta. Use your own logic and apply it to Mader now. He crushed Bernal.

Bernal was not at his best, but he still did 6.5 w/kg on Collada Llomena on stage 17. He couldn't have been too far off.

There's no doubt that Haig is talented, but he took a huge step up this year, with everyone else on the Bahrain team. Of course there are more suspicious riders on Bahrain than Haig and Mader, I have listed them in this thread already, but they do have to be mentioned as well.
Meh, I also think something fishy is going on at Bahrain but people need to stop rewriting history not even a month after the race is over.
Bernal had a big time gap to the two Vuelta guys because Yates and him tried to create a split on stage 20 and when it worked, Bernal was on the wrong side of it so he obviously didn't help Lopez and lost his GC positions (which he didn't care about).
Outside stage 20 there was a single stage where Mäder put seconds into Bernal and that was 3 seconds on stage 9. Apart from that Bernal was ahead on every other stage. Haig as well took time out of Bernal 2-3 times in the first two weeks but the main reason he finished ahead of him was being gifted his GC position due to a breakaway and because of stage 20.

While it was still a strong performance by Haig and Mäder the reason they end up on 3rd and 5th is because of other teams priorities, tactics and Bahrain's strong support. Just by individual strength they probably finish 6th and 7th behind Roglic, Mas, Lopez, Bernal and Yates (maybe even Kuss).

Bahrain is dodgy but not everything is Padun, Mohoric, Colbrelli dodgy. Interesting for the overall picture - yes. But I can count 10 more GC suspicious guys from the last two years than what Haig and Mäder did in this Vuelta.
 
While yes, it's fair to say that Bernal was "caught" in the Lopez group, who was pulling the front group away from them? Haig and Mader, with help from Padun later on. nobody else took a pull in that group for over 50km.
 

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