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Teams & Riders Bahrain

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roundabout

roundabout

Jun 7, 2010
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Landis got away on the Saisies and had very little help from his companions after so he did the previous 100km to Joux-Plane solo for all intents and purposes, while Padun had 17 or 18 other guys with him in the break more or less working together okish from what I could see, so it's not quite a one-to-one comparison.

Just for avoidance of doubt, I think both were ridiculous.
 
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yaco

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BlueRoads said:
Like Escarabajo said, it's looking at the whole picture, and although Padun is certainly the most outstanding example, who after Caruso's suspicious second place directed the light towards the team so much, that there's no possibility to look away, this is obviously Bahrain, including Haig, Caruso, Tratnik, possibly Mäder as well. Doesn't mean these guys don't have any talent. Haig's performance would just be a positive surprise without looking at the others, but with Padun in the picture it becomes very suspicious.
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Haig's performance is nowhere near a surprise while Mader is performing to his level - If you really want to be picky then Colbrelli is climbing at a higher level.
 
BlueRoads

BlueRoads

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yaco said:
Haig's performance is nowhere near a surprise while Mader is performing to his level - If you really want to be picky then Colbrelli is climbing at a higher level.
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True, Colbrelli has an incredible climbing level this year - well, not incredible in that sense, but like "wow!". Also, I think SafeBet reminded of Domen Novak, who I completely forgot, but was stunned by last year (to be honest I attributed it a bit to my suspicians towards the Slovenians).

If you pick one of these performances you will probably find a reason each time why this is normal - well, he always had such potential, he was always very good, just another step this year, finally has the freedom, the peloton let him away...

All in all: not believable to me. It's not like I don't want them to be successful. It would be nice to have another team and some nice youngsters step up. But not like this. Especially not with "I just lost 4.5 kilos in a week, that's why I'm now at this level." Sudden radical weight loss, sudden complete nutrition change. That's just the mother of doping excuses.
 
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Pirazziattacks

Pirazziattacks

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limak_ said:
That is also what drew my attention. I mean, the guy was griding 60 rpm all the time, if you looked at him you wouldn't say he's going fast. he looked so "heavy". I know every rider has his own style, preferred cadence etc. but Padun looked so inefficient on his bike, that it made his performance even more ridiculous.
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He kept grinding away like that on when the road flattened out as well.
 
BlueRoads

BlueRoads

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saganftw

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i think he is trying to say that Padun won because he was allowed to win from a break just like any other rider would, if he stayed in peloton he wouldnt which is obviously loads of crap, but i think he tries to normalize the situation because he is aware how absurd it looked
 
ciranda

ciranda

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Fantastico said:
While I agree with you that sometimes nationality seems to play a role in these kind of dicussions for some people (which it shouldn't), I completely disagree with the rest of your post.

Of course, it was weird how Ineos and Sunweb destroyed the Giro third week last year and how van Aert climbed in the TdF. Actually, this has been discussed quite a lot here in the clinic. If you are not aware of these discussions, you seem to suffer from the same kind of selective perception that you criticize others for.
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Ok how about this. No one knew Mark is so energetic and funny before these interviews because no one from the media, afaik, had ever talked to him, one of the strongest guys from the Italian under 23 races in the last five years. So it's even more like OMG THIS GUY CAME OUT OF NOWEHERE (of course his results show he was strong from Giro del Trentino stage win and on), here's an outsider you can point fingers at and make fun of. Haha stupid peasants, must be cheating if I never read about them in CYCLING BICYCLE NEWS SITE. Theres's an inherent bias that shows in the opinions about Lutsenko and Padun. Maybe not the most important issue, I agree, but I noticed also just because I think it sucks that cycling is getting much less international than it used to be.
 
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saganftw

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ciranda said:
Ok how about this. No one knew Mark is so energetic and funny before these interviews because no one from the media, afaik, had ever talked to him, one of the strongest guys from the Italian under 23 races in the last five years. So it's even more like OMG THIS GUY CAME OUT OF NOWEHERE (of course his results show he was strong from Giro del Trentino stage win and on), here's an outsider you can point fingers at and make fun of. Haha stupid peasants, must be cheating if I never read about them in CYCLING BICYCLE NEWS SITE. Theres's an inherent bias that shows in the opinions about Lutsenko and Padun. Maybe not the most important issue, I agree, but I noticed also just because I think it sucks that cycling is getting much less international than it used to be.
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im well aware how mainly english (western) speaking media are towards former eastern bloc athletes (no need to go far, just yesterday hockey WC ended where Russia wasnt allowed the flag or anthemn) but its for a good reason - state controlled doping and doping in general isnt anything new

obviously its pretty hypocritical to call out Sharapova by US media for doping, meanwhile their N1 looks like NFL linebacker but is all good its just those evil russkies

that being said Padun was extraordinary strong, if you watch cycling long enough you can spot when something is off by a mile - like Pogacars last TT in TdF, even if you account for usual those are straight from 90s performances and usually those eastern bloc superhumans are later busted (Foliforov says hi) i certainly look forward to TdF tho, its gonna be spicy
 
BlueRoads

BlueRoads

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ciranda said:
Ok how about this. No one knew Mark is so energetic and funny before these interviews because no one from the media, afaik, had ever talked to him, one of the strongest guys from the Italian under 23 races in the last five years. So it's even more like OMG THIS GUY CAME OUT OF NOWEHERE (of course his results show he was strong from Giro del Trentino stage win and on), here's an outsider you can point fingers at and make fun of. Haha stupid peasants, must be cheating if I never read about them in CYCLING BICYCLE NEWS SITE. Theres's an inherent bias that shows in the opinions about Lutsenko and Padun. Maybe not the most important issue, I agree, but I noticed also just because I think it sucks that cycling is getting much less international than it used to be.
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Well, in German society in general at least there indeed is often some underlying bias against eastern Europeans, it's there in everyday life, especially when it comes to women, and I am often very annoyed by that. However, I am not going to absolve riders from eastern European countries when they show extremely suspicious performances just because of that.

And really I don't care much if he was already very talented in his youth. There are many really talented guys. Still they usually don't have a serious breakthrough performance under such circumstances as here, and if they do, I will say it looks damn suspicious, whether they are from Ukraine or Germany or Belgium.
 
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Escarabajo

Escarabajo

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The funny thing is that we come here and say they must be doping. Too many good results grouped together. But Ineos winning everything is OK and back to normal!
LOL. We have come to this state of the peloton. Once Bahrain breaks the ice it will look normal, just like Ineos.
 
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BlueRoads

BlueRoads

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Escarabajo said:
The funny thing is that we come here and say they must be doping. Too many good results grouped together. But Ineos winning everything is OK and back to normal!
LOL. We have come to this state of the peloton. Once Bahrain breaks the ice it will look normal, just like Ineos.
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They just overdid it in my opinion. We will see where it goes but this looks Froome like, and I wouldn't call Froome clean...
Then my main issue with Skyneos isn't doping/ transformation, although their trackies' turns also looked suspicous. The main issue with Ineos is that they buy the best guys with their money and buy and buy.

But what you're implying is what really bugs me. It's one thing if there's a rider doped to his **, but if all the teams and riders see, wow, it's so obvious, but it just goes through, nothing's happening, they will do it just like that.
 
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Luthor

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BlueRoads said:
"We’re racing just like the other teams. Padun spent two days in the break but if he stays in the peloton I don’t think that he’ll finish inside the top-10 because he’s not that confident."

?
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What a bunch of *** from Erzen. :tearsofjoy: You have to be overconfident to attack in two consecutive days and from so far. The guy has no credibility whatsoever given his Aderlass connection.

Basically what is he is saying it's they are using something but it's not forbidden yet. Same excuse others used before " We're clean because we're not caught and we play by the rules" . Probably the same thing Pog used in TDF which gives monstrous recovery and lack of fatigue. Both Pog and Padun looked quite fresh even after mind-blowing performances.
I fear for that last ITT in TdF we will see again some big surprises...
 
Escarabajo

Escarabajo

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Luthor said:
What a bunch of *** from Erzen. :tearsofjoy: You have to be overconfident to attack in two consecutive days and from so far. The guy has no credibility whatsoever given his Aderlass connection.

Basically what is he is saying it's they are using something but it's not forbidden yet. Same excuse others used before " We're clean because we're not caught and we play by the rules" . Probably the same thing Pog used in TDF which gives monstrous recovery and lack of fatigue. Both Pog and Padun looked quite fresh even after mind-blowing performances.
I fear for that last ITT in TdF we will see again some big surprises...
Click to expand...
Read between the lines, we are playing by the rules. I love it. :D
 
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