Ban Team Time Trials ?

[Netserk]

If it’s likely, then why bother change the rule?
On the other hand, if you’ve got a 4th who is struggling, it affects strategy, rotation, etc.

I feel like a 30km flattish TTT isn’t quite long enough to separate riders like that anyway. Maybe we do need to go back to long TTTs?

See the TTT of Astana in the 2010 Giro.

 

[Finn84]

I selected second option, keep them but they have to be short. I also feel that it feels kind of good presentation when being on the first stage in a relatively big city.

I don't like set time gaps for positions, because it can disrupt relative gaps of non-winning teams to either direction.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I would like to see a new format where the time is taken individually (at the very least for GC), so it doesn't matter if a team ends up with two, four or seven riders together at the end.

I like this idea but they should also ban drafting in it, and maybe start separately from one another to enforce that.

 

[Leinster]

Make them ride it all on road bikes.

 

[TMJ]

It's amazing that as recently as the 2005 Tour de France there was a monster 67.5K Team Time Trial, allowing Lance Armstrong and the Discovery team pull out big gaps on their rivals.
Even today Lance still says he loves the team time trial, no wonder! He described it almost as free time on his rivals for the yellow jersey.

 

[Netserk]

It's amazing that as recently as the 2005 Tour de France there was a monster 67.5K Team Time Trial, allowing Lance Armstrong and the Discovery team pull out big gaps on their rivals.
Even today Lance still says he loves the team time trial, no wonder! He described it almost as free time on his rivals for the yellow jersey.

2'' on Basso and 35'' on Ullrich. It only had a cosmetic effect on the final GC.

 

[Red Rick]

Send whoever's involved in the decision to put TTT in stage race straight to The Hague.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Send whoever's involved in the decision to put TTT in stage race straight to The Hague.

Wow, a Dutch coastal city would be a hard enough punishment for an in-shape climber! There's even a village near it called Monster.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Wow, a Dutch coastal city would be a hard enough punishment for an in-shape climber! There's even a village near it called Monster.

Well, seeing as some of the riders who benefited most from the TTT would be one-dimensional climbers on strong teams, like for example Andy Schleck, who would stand to lose big in an ITT of comparable length, making them spend all their training rides on the Dutch coast and all their local racing being sprint- and echelon-heavy might actually work as a punishment.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I like this idea but they should also ban drafting in it, and maybe start separately from one another to enforce that.

Perhaps with riders from other teams starting in between?

 

[roundabout]

2'' on Basso and 35'' on Ullrich. It only had a cosmetic effect on the final GC.

30'' on Ullrich even. There were gap caps then.

 

[Netserk]

I somehow only thought that was the case for 2004.

EDIT: From the CN preview: https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-de-france-2005/stage-4/preview/

Just to make life easier for everybody, the Tour organisers last year introduced a new set of rules to determine how much time riders can lose on the team time trial stage. In previous years, there has been a simple ceiling - no rider who finishes inside the time limit could lose more than X minutes. This year the system is a little more complex. So here goes:

• The teams' times are taken on the fifth rider to finish, and all riders finishing together with their team are credited with that time. Riders who are dropped will be given their actual time, and there is a time limit of the winning team's time +25% to avoid elimination, which could be a tough call for a rider who gets dropped early; the rest of this spiel only affects the individual GC for riders who finish with their teams.
• The maximum amount of time that a rider who finishes with their team can lose to the riders on the winning team is determined by the placing of their team: riders in the team that finishes second can lose no more than 20 seconds, 3rd - 30 seconds, 4th - 40 seconds and so on in ten second increments down to the 15th team, who can lose no more than 2.30, and then in five second increments down to the 21st team whose riders can lose no more than 3 minutes. If the team finishes closer to the winners than the maximum, the riders get the actual team time. Still with me? Good.
• The actual team times are used for the overall team classification.

 

[roundabout]

I somehow only thought that was the case for 2004.

IIRC Postal put major time into the rest in 2004 so the general consensus at the time was that the gap caps worked as intended and were kept for 2005.

 

[Netserk]

I guess the reason I only remembered 2004 was Sastre losing more time by not finishing together with the rest of CSC.

 

[southwards]

I thought they were a thing of the past, already.

We had two in 2019 GT's: Tour and Vuelta. At the Vuelta Jumbo fell on a oil patch and even so roglic won it.

I like them. But I also like cobbles stages in GT's and loved Montalcino stage. For me, any curveball thrown at the riders is good, even a points race or penny farthing sprint.

 

[tobydawq]

We had two in 2019 GT's: Tour and Vuelta. At the Vuelta Jumbo fell on a oil patch and even so roglic won it.

I like them. But I also like cobbles stages in GT's and loved Montalcino stage. For me, any curveball thrown at the riders is good, even a points race or penny farthing sprint.

A points race (insert unimpressed emoji)?

I know there were TTTs back in 2019 but last year there were only 3 (in Coppi e Bartali, Colombia 2.1 and the Czech Tour) and this year there has only been one (in Coppi e Bartali) so far with another one scheduled in the Tour of Britain.

In fact, in 8 days we can celebrate the 2-year anniversary of the latest WTTTT which was the pool-water debacle of the Vuelta 2019.

 

[titan31]

I like them. Find them more entertaining than a normal ITT tbh so I chose option 1. Only caveat is they have to be before stage 3/4 of a GT. Wait too long and it becomes unfair due to crashes.

 

[Jumbot]

Like banning TTTs will make it harder for big rich teams to dominate. We've seen that last two years... That a GC guy from Cofidis or similar loses lots of time doesn't change anything for the race. On the other side a team like EF or Bike Exchange would absolutely kill it in a TTT and they're not among the richest, they're just focused on it, while Movistar/AG2R for example are not really, even though they're among the bigger teams. For me they're just another different discipline where one favorite team will put some time into other but the differences between yours Ineos/DQT/Jumbo/UAE etc. won't be that big to ruin a race, those that'll lose a lot would lose anyway. The only problem I see is in some short races with imbalanced routes

 

[southwards]

It would be very disappointing if a race gets decided by a TTT. Imagine Pogacar losing 3 minutes in a 80km TTT and this stage deciding the Tour.

But did something like this ever happen?

And I also think a TTT favors riders and teams from countries with strong track culture: UK, Netherlands,. Australia, I have nothing against this: Colombians are favored in high altitude passes.

 

[Volderke]

Some ideas (not all are new):

1. Just a fun idea: Make teams of 2 riders within the teams (like the trofeo baracchi). In this way, it’s a compromise between an individual TT and a TTT, but without too much advantage for the rich teams. You could even demand for example that the rider with most PCS points has to ride with the rider with the least PCS points within his team. Ofcourse, all of the above only works with even numbered teams, and only on the first day of the GC when no one has crashed yet.
2. Don’t count the time difference, but e.g. 2nd gets 5 seconds, 3rd team 10 seconds, etcetera. This levels the most dominant teams a bit. Either this, or like Netserk said, count the real time without the minimum number of 4 riders taken into consideration before the clock stops.
3. Make the parcours technical (curves, crosswinds) and make sure there is at least one hill in there. This will benefit cohesive teams with equal riders more than teams with 1-2 very big engines or super GC riders (those benefit from a flat, non-technical course) so the teams without GC favourite have more chance.
4. Make them ride with normal bikes. We already have some TT in early season with normal road bikes, so why not the TTT.
5. Make it short (around 20K), see also point 2.

 

[southwards]

Another possibility is establishing a ceiling of 1 minute over which the gap d

A points race (insert unimpressed emoji)?

I just imagined the most outrageous gimmick. Doesn't the BinckBank tour have something like this?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Likely we will get to see some TTT rather soonish. Race organisers should make sure the advantage gained wouldn't be a race defining one. But keeping the possibility to gain some advantage is desirable.

Just like on ITT.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I like the TTT, it is a good spectacle and massive sponsorship viewing. Absolutely needs to be the first day and I think around 20-30km. I would also like if it went over more rolling route.

I also think we need more ITT kms and variety of route for them. It honestly might open up more attacking attitude than saving everything for the climb.

 

[Leinster]

I wouldn’t have the TTT be stage 1. Stage 3-5 (no later than 5) is ideal for me, preferably with a slightly punchy stage 1 or 2, enough to have gaps within the team so we don’t have the GC top 10 be 8 JV riders, plus 2 Ineos.

I like the idea of any individual being a chance of the yellow jersey for the first few days. I also like the idea of a random rider from the TTT-winners getting a stint in yellow afterwards (Impey, Maechler, Sorensen, Half the Orica team in Giro 2015)

 

[Savant12]

The TTT relay race. Each rider rides an equal distance and needs to pass the team bidon on to the next teammate [rolling starts] and so on until the last rider (The GC one) takes it to the finish. All riders on the team get the same finish time.