Basso vs. Nibali

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Jun 20, 2009
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Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
Conta's best form of defense is offense. When he attacked last year, practically no one could follow. This is why I see him unbeatable in any GT as it stands ...

But last year Bertie's team was the strongest by far (the Uniballer, Klodi, Levi) so he could afford to attack knowing other teams weren't going to pull him back if that meant giving the other Astana GC boys a free ride.

This year will be different - Bertie, a bunch of no-name Kazakhs and three mid-level Spanish climbers. No comparison.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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laziali said:
But last year Bertie's team was the strongest by far (the Uniballer, Klodi, Levi) so he could afford to attack knowing other teams weren't going to pull him back if that meant giving the other Astana GC boys a free ride.

This year will be different - Bertie, a bunch of no-name Kazakhs and three mid-level Spanish climbers. No comparison.

Liqui should work on their mountain tt skills. Let contador go and try to pull him back slowly. Noone is matching his initial acceleration. Bertie can attack when he wants, verbier showed what radioshack will be able to achieve.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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laziali said:
But last year Bertie's team was the strongest by far (the Uniballer, Klodi, Levi) so he could afford to attack knowing other teams weren't going to pull him back if that meant giving the other Astana GC boys a free ride.

This year will be different - Bertie, a bunch of no-name Kazakhs and three mid-level Spanish climbers. No comparison.

let's see if it will be any different. somehow i doubt it.
Though I agree it will be a closer thing this year.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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laziali said:
But last year Bertie's team was the strongest by far (the Uniballer, Klodi, Levi) so he could afford to attack knowing other teams weren't going to pull him back if that meant giving the other Astana GC boys a free ride.

This year will be different - Bertie, a bunch of no-name Kazakhs and three mid-level Spanish climbers. No comparison.

Last year AC didn't attack half as much as he wanted to, because of the team he was on, as the shots on the road had to suit te the capacity of the old dude.

This year all he needs is not a good team, but a team that is good enough. Looks like he has that to me, all the more if they pick a team based on ability, rather than nationality.

And I am still convinced that the podium is open to so many teams, that no-one will want to see another team put distance between them and AC. As that means you are riding for third. I suspect "other teams" will be AC's strongest support at times, not competition.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Francois the Postman said:
Last year AC didn't attack half as much as he wanted to, because of the team he was on, as the shots on the road had to suit te the capacity of the old dude.

This year all he needs is not a good team, but a team that is good enough. Looks like he has that to me, all the more if they pick a team based on ability, rather than nationality.

And I am still convinced that the podium is open to so many teams, that no-one will want to see another team put distance between them and AC. As that means you are riding for third. I suspect "other teams" will be AC's strongest support at times, not competition.

When else did he want to? ventoux?

Completely agree that Contador's greatest allies will be teams not willing to lose 3rd. Radioshack chasing down the break that includes basso etc.

I think it was 2005 we saw this with evans in a break. The break gained significant time, i think eventually evans was pushing for Ullrich's position. So USPS let up and team by team, they protected their GC positions. First T-mobile for ullrich, then iles baleras for Mancebo and gerolsteiner for leipheimer. If someone other than Contador wants to win...the other teams need to situp and let them.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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karlboss said:
When else did he want to? ventoux?

Completely agree that Contador's greatest allies will be teams not willing to lose 3rd. Radioshack chasing down the break that includes basso etc.

Ask Contador, Armstrong, or Bruyneel.

All I know is that all have made reflective comments about what went on during the races, about how he-himself/Contador/that-guy-from-the-Pueblo wanted to do things very different, and frequently so.

Contador said he was discouraged from taking the attack on a number of occasions. And from various interview comments by all 3 you can deduce that he would have chosen to let the team ride differently (more aggressively and earlier) for him. Bruyneel made comments about Contador being far more willing to go than was wise. Armstrong mentioned in a Nieuwsblad interview that there were frequent radio conversations during the race in which Contador talked about plans that Armstrong deemed tactically dangerous (I wonder for whom).

Add it all up with what we saw on the road, and we saw a guy holding back teh attacks big time, for the team (once he attacked once to settle the team leadership discussion, brief as it was).

I like that, someone who is keen. I think we will see a very different race this year, when he has no Bruyneel/Armstrong straight jacket to work with.

He shows frequently he is keen to go up a hill and see who can follow. Prettyu much did the same a week ago in Portugal, then with a team that was riding to help him do just that.

Maybe indeed too keen, and he would be wiser blah-blah-blah. But he either can afford some of this "tactically dangerous" silly stuff, as his capacity more than trumps and compensates for his has-much-to-learn-errors, or he is simply a different style of rider who really disagrees with the Bruyneel/Armstrong view of what is wise (for him) and how a race should be tackled if your name is Contador. If you are winning, who can prove you were wrong?

If that attitude works again this year with a team with different/actual support riders ? Time will tell.

And if you ask me: again, with little doubt.

All I know that this tactical numptie trumped both the mighty masters Armstrong and Bruyneel, by simply letting his legs talk, and showing who is boss in the Pyrenees. Exactly when he had to (he had gone earlier if it wasn't for the wind, that day in the Pyrenees, if his comments are to be believed). And how best to keep the high ground, on and off the bike.

I think Armstrong wants to win, and is deadly that way. To me it seems that Contador wants to race as well as win.

I fully expect to see that this year, Contador on a much longer leash. And if he is as capable as he looks, god help the rest with hanging on to his coat tails the moment it goes uphill on a mountain he has set his sight on. I doubt that we will be waiting for the last km on a climb before he takes off, on quite a few occasions this year.

I think there is a docu-movie coming out close to the Tour this year, starring Lance Armstrong, but with footage taken during the entire, in-race and behind the scenes, with access. Focus will be on Lance, but it will have to feature some stuff that went on with Contador too, and I'm dead curious to see how the footage matches the various scenarios that have been given. Contador has declined to provide additional material, but I suspect that what they have will speak volumes, edited or not.
 
May 26, 2009
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karlboss said:
Completely agree that Contador's greatest allies will be teams not willing to lose 3rd. Radioshack chasing down the break that includes basso etc.

I agree, people say what will Contador do if Levi or Kloden go up the road will his team be able to cope, unless Frank Schleck is in that group Saxo will also work to bring it back/keep it in sight, not sure how the Liquigas leadership will work but I'm sure they'll chase too(Possibly if they have a rider in the break too, cos I'm sure the 3 out of the 4 main guys want to be leader). But I've yet to see Levi attack maybe someone can direct me to some footage of that and as for Kloden I saw him attack once in the 05 Tour on the stage where he just lost to Weening.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Persoanlly Contador attacked on every mountain stage except ventoux, he may have wanted to go a little earlier, but he still went. Bruyneel may not have wanted him to go, but he still went.

IMHO Contador was talking about the efforts of the team. I think there are many times he wanted Astana to prove they were loyal and the strongest, pull up a climb and destroy the field...they never did. The reason the top 10 was as close as they were is Astana didn't employ USPS tactics. Imagine the difference it would make on a climb as Levi, Lance and Andreas screw themselves for a leadout and then pull off.

The difference is Astana 2010 isn't Astana 2009. Contador isn't going to expect that sort of effort, certainly not from day one.

Contador will be aggressive again, and I expect will win again, but he will not be a new rider hitting out on the 2nd last climb or when they hit the base of a 10km climb. De La fuente did an awesome job in Algave, but I doubt the team will be strong enough to try the same tactic at the tour on any real climb.


Edit: Every rival will love it if he uses his team aggressively early.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Yeah pretty much. If Astana could have done the USPS thing and Contador would have won the whole thing by closer to 10 minutes. Especially if they used ventoux. But then 2nd and third would have been frank and andy. If Astana 2010 try that, they'll have run out of riders and still have more than half the final mountain to ride, unless Vino can find his best ever form again. I think Astana 2010 will do everything possible to ensure Contador is number 1 in Paris, and only once that is assured vino can go for his stage win. He's won in paris before.
 
Jun 20, 2009
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karlboss said:
...

The difference is Astana 2010 isn't Astana 2009. Contador isn't going to expect that sort of effort, certainly not from day one.

Contador will be aggressive again, and I expect will win again, but he will not be a new rider hitting out on the 2nd last climb or when they hit the base of a 10km climb. De La fuente did an awesome job in Algave, but I doubt the team will be strong enough to try the same tactic at the tour on any real climb.


Spot on, Karlboss.

Other major difference it that Bruyneel was the common thread for the Uniballer and Bertie's wins. Interesting to see how much of a factor he will be this year.
 

DAOTEC

BANNED
Jun 16, 2009
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How come ?

With two victory's today, by Peter Sagan in Paris-Nice and Daniele Bennati in the Tirreno-Adriatico, Liquigas -Doimo becomes the most successful team in 2010 thus far, 11 victories with only 5 riders that is: +1 ~ Elia Viviani won a stage in the Tour of Cuba, with the Nat. Italian track squad.

Liquigas -Doimo wins: 11+1
1st Stage 1 Tour San Luis: Chicchi
1st Stage 4 Tour San Luis: Nibali
1 General Tour San Luis: Nibali
1st Stage 4 Tour Qatar: Chicchi
1st Tour Stage 6 Qatar: Chicchi
1st Stage 2 Tour Oman: Bennati
1st Stage 2 Giro Sardegna: Kreuziger
1 General Giro Sardegna: Kreuziger
1st Stage 3 Paris-Nice: Sagan
1st Stage 3, Tirreno-Adriatico: Bennati
1st Stage 5 Paris-Nice: Sagan

The more professional teams that have won are: biciciclismo.com

Liquigas -Doimo 11 wins
HTC-Columbia 10
Cofidis 8
Androni 6
Française des Jeux 6
Lampre 6
Team Sky 6

Might these glossy girls have to do something with it ?
atoc09st08dw-liquigas.jpg

Or is it just a matter of time ?
game-theory-doping-cycling.jpg