Bassons: The most eloquent perspective...

[mewmewmew13]

An interesting read from Kimmage vintage 2005 referencing Bassons & Gilbert http://www.ergogenics.org/012.html

Thank you for posting this link bianchigirl. It really affected me this morning, and leaves me with a bit of melancholy. Philippe Gilbert is one of my favorite riders, I am looking forward to watching him in the spring classics, as he seems to me an embodiment of what I think a pure cyclist is. He is a truly classy rider and rides with great style and panache.

As Paco-P posted earlier, which also grabbed my attention:
"When the joy of the thing is in doing the thing rather than in being celebrated for having done the thing, the latter seems unimportant."

A reflection of my sentiments exactly, and I also am guessing a part of what makes Gilbert such a charismatic rider.

Thank you both for your posts.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Bassons comes off weak with his comments in my opinion. He mentions flaws in other peoples family life which is just his opinion. I have no doubt he is celebrated by many as a person who stood up to Lance Armstrong at the 99 tour but he basically wilted to the pressure of words by Lance Armstrong.

By his own actions he backed down and retired from the 1999 tour due to mental exhaustion. That does not look or sound good in my opinion. In turn someone could make the claim that his retirement from the sport and the TDF that year was a character flaw or some sign of mental troubles.

 

[hrotha]

Bassons comes off weak with his comments in my opinion. He mentions flaws in other peoples family life which is just his opinion. I have no doubt he is celebrated by many as a person who stood up to Lance Armstrong at the 99 tour but he basically wilted to the pressure of words by Lance Armstrong.

By his own actions he backed down and retired from the 1999 tour due to mental exhaustion. That does not look or sound good in my opinion. In turn someone could make the claim that his retirement from the sport and the TDF that year was a character flaw or some sign of mental troubles.

The thing is, it wasn't just Armstrong, it was the whole peloton, including his own teammates.

 

[Benotti69]

Bassons comes off weak with his comments in my opinion. He mentions flaws in other peoples family life which is just his opinion. I have no doubt he is celebrated by many as a person who stood up to Lance Armstrong at the 99 tour but he basically wilted to the pressure of words by Lance Armstrong.

By his own actions he backed down and retired from the 1999 tour due to mental exhaustion. That does not look or sound good in my opinion. In turn someone could make the claim that his retirement from the sport and the TDF that year was a character flaw or some sign of mental troubles.

he didn't wilt to LA it was his team and team mates who basically shunned him and made it very difficult for him.

if you were not part of the omerta it was very difficult to ride in the peloton.

 

[Granville57]

By his own actions he backed down and retired from the 1999 tour due to mental exhaustion. That does not look or sound good in my opinion. In turn someone could make the claim that his retirement from the sport and the TDF that year was a character flaw or some sign of mental troubles.

Sure, I suppose someone could make that claim. Is that what you are doing?

To make such a claim, however, would say more about that "someone" than it would about Bassons.

 

[runninboy]

he didn't wilt to LA it was his team and team mates who basically shunned him and made it very difficult for him.

if you were not part of the omerta it was very difficult to ride in the peloton.

Exactly, why not ask Stephen Roche how much fun he had at the 87 Giro?
At least in his case he still had teammate Eddy Schepers and the peloton were not against him.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Sure, I suppose someone could make that claim. Is that what you are doing?

To make such a claim, however, would say more about that "someone" than it would about Bassons.

See you want to make this appear that I am trying to either “troll” or “derail” your thread. That is why you focused in on my point that “it could be seen as a character flaw” with regards to him shutting it down during that tour. You are trying to get me to make some offhanded attack toward you or something you can “flag”. That was not my point of the post. I made it very clear what my opinion of Bassons is and you do not like my opinion. That is fair. I still hold my opinion that he is week.

Also in Bassons interview he questions the family upbringing which is character flaws of both Landis and Armstrong……I could say according to you …that tells a lot about Bassons own character flaws. I am not doing that.

I even see some have pointed out to me that it was more than the Armstrong pressure that caused him to cave in. I can accept that and also can concede that the pressure can be overwhelming especially being faced by your own teammates pressure. I would like to think if I was in his position I would have made a point to finish that tour and keep talking about the obvious doping I was aware of and observing.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

Exactly, why not ask Stephen Roche how much fun he had at the 87 Giro?
At least in his case he still had teammate Eddy Schepers and the peloton were not against him.

Interesting comparison and a backdoor confirmation of what Glen is saying. Roche shot a collective middle finger at the peloton and went on to win that giro.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Interesting comparison and a backdoor confirmation of what Glen is saying. Roche shot a collective middle finger at the peloton and went on to win that giro.

There are many ways to look at strength of charecter.
In Roche`s case he was more than happy to" play the game" and knew all about the game for a long time. A spat like that was never gonna take him down.
He was solidly "establishment".
Is that a strong charecter or one who knows what he wants and doesnt care to much how he gets it?
Bassons on the other hand knows what he doesnt want and cares much that he doesnt compromise that most valuable thing of all.
Integrity.
Thats priceless.

 

[TexPat]

There are many ways to look at strength of charecter.
In Roche`s case he was more than happy to" play the game" and knew all about the game for a long time. A spat like that was never gonna take him down.
He was solidly "establishment".
Is that a strong charecter or one who knows what he wants and doesnt care to much how he gets it?
Bassons on the other hand knows what he doesnt want and cares much that he doesnt compromise that most valuable thing of all.
Integrity.
Thats priceless.

Yes, Darryl! That was what I gleaned from the interview as well. His departure was a sign of strength. In this case, strength of character. Moreover, his strong family upbringing he cites a source of that strength. I doubt that he was using FL and LA as examples of the effects of the opposite, necessarily. In a way he was showing gratitude for the firm standing his family gave him, not being harsh and judgemental.
Really, I think there is a disconnect between language and thinking here (i.e. French vs English) and if Glenn Wilson truly believes what he posted, he is confused, or is disingenuously presenting the idea.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Interesting comparison and a backdoor confirmation of what Glen is saying. Roche shot a collective middle finger at the peloton and went on to win that giro.

Roche in my opinion did exactly what you stated with the middle finger. It seems Roche used it to his mental advantage. He basically said ok ….now watch this.

@Darryl One was playing the game the other was not. It would have been more effective and enligtning to have Bassons stick it out and point the “collective middle finger” towards the team the DS the peloton and to most importantly the intimidator Lance Armstrong. That would have been seen “in my opinion” as a major set of balls to stick to your word and integrity.

Instead he backed down and wrote a book? It is weak sauce “in my opinion”.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Yes, Darryl! That was what I gleaned from the interview as well. His departure was a sign of strength. In this case, strength of character. Moreover, his strong family upbringing he cites a source of that strength. I doubt that he was using FL and LA as examples of the effects of the opposite, necessarily. In a way he was showing gratitude for the firm standing his family gave him, not being harsh and judgemental.
Really, I think there is a disconnect between language and thinking here (i.e. French vs English) and if Glenn Wilson truly believes what he posted, he is confused, or is disingenuously presenting the idea.

Wow. I am “disingenuously presenting” my idea? I am not confused about anything. I am only stating my opinion after reading his interview.

I could have just come out and had some negative comment regarding your post that said..” This supports my generalization developed from living in France, that on the whole, they are much deeper thinkers who possess remarkable reasoning skills as well as eloquence.”

For example --In my opinion your confused about your experiences from living in France. That they are not much deeper thinkers etc.

I did not agree with your post and do not think your confused in your assessment because that is a opinion you have. No problem correct?

to the bolded portion .....Are you questioning my integrity? Why?

 

[TexPat]

Bassons comes off weak with his comments in my opinion. He mentions flaws in other peoples family life which is just his opinion. I have no doubt he is celebrated by many as a person who stood up to Lance Armstrong at the 99 tour but he basically wilted to the pressure of words by Lance Armstrong.

By his own actions he backed down and retired from the 1999 tour due to mental exhaustion. That does not look or sound good in my opinion. In turn someone could make the claim that his retirement from the sport and the TDF that year was a character flaw or some sign of mental troubles.

This is the barb in your post, which raised the red flag. By your reasoning, if one departs a situation that is undesirable, it shows weakness, a character flaw or a sign of mental trouble.
Hence my assessment of your opinion, as you call it.
And yes, I am questioning your integrity. Not that it matters one iota.

 

[Escarabajo]

In this new interivew, Christophe Bassons offers some truly profound and insightful thoughts about doping:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bassons-wont-judge-landis-and-armstrong

A great answer. Certainly one of the best view points that I have read in a long time.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

You should give it a rest Mr. Wilson. Implying that Bassons is weak for running away when people were mean to him is a no win situation here. That is a sign of strength in the bizarro alternate universe that you and I apparently don't reside in. Couple that with his cryptic new age philosophy "let's all be friends/flower child" attitude on display in the articl, instead of staying in the sport and fighting for what he believed in and exposing the doping omerta, being applauded here is enough to make one's head explode. FYI I tried to read his book but it was in French.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

This is the barb in your post, which raised the red flag. By your reasoning, if one departs a situation that is undesirable, it shows weakness, a character flaw or a sign of mental trouble.
Hence my assessment of your opinion, as you call it.
And yes, I am questioning your integrity. Not that it matters one iota.

Well that Is a shame really because I hold a different opinion than yours you would have to resort to questioning my integrity.

I will not back down from my stated opinion that him questioning another persons family upbringing to asses character when he himself Quit when the peloton needed someone like him the most.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

You should give it a rest Mr. Wilson. Implying that Bassons is weak for running away when people were mean to him is a no win situation here. That is a sign of strength in the bizarro alternate universe that you and I apparently don't reside in. Couple that with his cryptic new age philosophy "let's all be friends/flower child" attitude on display in the articl, instead of staying in the sport and fighting for what he believed in and exposing the doping omerta, being applauded here is enough to make one's head explode. FYI I tried to read his book but it was in French. .

I also do not speak French. I wish I did because I would truly like to read his book. That may give me some more idea about him and I could comment further. Then again my opinions are like everyone else's just opinions.

 

[Anonymous]

You should give it a rest Mr. Wilson. Implying that Bassons is weak for running away when people were mean to him is a no win situation here. That is a sign of strength in the bizarro alternate universe that you and I apparently don't reside in. Couple that with his cryptic new age philosophy "let's all be friends/flower child" attitude on display in the articl, instead of staying in the sport and fighting for what he believed in and exposing the doping omerta, being applauded here is enough to make one's head explode. FYI I tried to read his book but it was in French.

i honestly cannot believe i just read that.

the whole thing, actually, but that that that... (refraining from using explicit language to describe the utter inanity of that statement)

 

[hrotha]

You should give it a rest Mr. Wilson. Implying that Bassons is weak for running away when people were mean to him is a no win situation here. That is a sign of strength in the bizarro alternate universe that you and I apparently don't reside in. Couple that with his cryptic new age philosophy "let's all be friends/flower child" attitude on display in the articl, instead of staying in the sport and fighting for what he believed in and exposing the doping omerta, being applauded here is enough to make one's head explode.

Congratulations on coming out of the troll closet.

 

[Oldman]

You should give it a rest Mr. Wilson. Implying that Bassons is weak for running away when people were mean to him is a no win situation here. That is a sign of strength in the bizarro alternate universe that you and I apparently don't reside in. Couple that with his cryptic new age philosophy "let's all be friends/flower child" attitude on display in the articl, instead of staying in the sport and fighting for what he believed in and exposing the doping omerta, being applauded here is enough to make one's head explode. FYI I tried to read his book but it was in French. If people want to be taken seriously they should learn English, but that just goes along with his unseriousness of cleaning up the sport IMO.

The reason someone would race is individual, to be sure. It usually starts out as innocent athletics and graduates to a professional pursuit if one wants money to continue.
Likewise choosing to cease that activity has much to do with you get out of it and isn't necessarily cowardly or heroic. Bassons sounds like he didn't see the fun in it for the compensation he received and claimed no heroism. He wasn't prepared then to be an activist, either. That others find the attitude heroic or pure is a different thing altogether. You're getting very excited over your own perceived reality.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

The reason someone would race is individual, to be sure. It usually starts out as innocent athletics and graduates to a professional pursuit if one wants money to continue.
Likewise choosing to cease that activity has much to do with you get out of it and isn't necessarily cowardly or heroic. Bassons sounds like he didn't see the fun in it for the compensation he received and claimed no heroism. He wasn't prepared then to be an activist, either. That others find the attitude heroic or pure is a different thing altogether. You're getting very excited over your own perceived reality.

Me getting excited? I'm not part of the cheering mob falling all over themselves gushing over this dude for 100 posts. You are also assuming his intentions when he left the sport was a monetary one vs the burden of activism. That is conjecture. Fact is he quit the sport instead of fighting for what was moral. He quit the sport, period. Opinions on whether that was a noble thing to do is what this discussion is about. Just because my opinion is different than most in here does not mean it is not valid or is not worthy outside the little moral relatism universe the clinic spins around in.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Well that I a shame really because I hold a different opinion than yours you would have to resort to questioning my integrity.

I will not back down from my stated opinion that him questioning another persons family upbringing to asses character when he himself Quit when the peloton needed someone like him the most.

Fact: Every single one of us is knowingly or unkowingly a psychologist. We use empathy and experiance to make sence of our interactions and we build a picture of familial and cultural "norms". Thus we are able to acertain and make understanding observations of each other that while frequently able to be incorrect are none the less the basis of both psychology and sociology as fields of formal study.
Basson does NOT state that he KNOWS the effect of anyone`s upbringing on there adult person but he correctly states that if studies and our own empathy tell us anything there is ( obviously) an efect.
To my mind no pro bike rider "owes" the peloton anything when that same peloton use Omarta to enforce the code.
It`s dog eat dog.
I guess he didnt wanna stoop to that leval eh?

 

[Benotti69]

Me getting excited? I'm not part of the cheering mob falling all over themselves gushing over this dude for 100 posts. You are also assuming his intentions when he left the sport was a monetary one vs the burden of activism. That is conjecture. Fact is he quit the sport instead of fighting for what was moral. He quit the sport, period. Opinions on whether that was a noble thing to do is what this discussion is about. Just because my opinion is different than most in here does not mean it is not valid or is not worthy outside the little moral relatism universe the clinic spins around in.

Discussion is actually about his eloquence not heroism.

At the time Bassons raced it was 99% doping in the peloton. If you didn't dope on the TdF you were out the back and struggling. If you cant race, you soon get left out, team mates turn on you becuase your not a help but a hindrance, the DS turns on you. how do you fight, when the uci is corrupt, the TdF organiser, aso, is corrupt and you're not going to be able to race at such a high level due to the doping???

The sport quit him.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Truly astounding.
It is quite clear that some Armstrong fans are as morally corrupt as their idol.
Were that the rest of the peloton had the same mental "problems" as Monsieur Bassons.

Chapeau, to those who continue to try to reason debate with these individuals.
For me, it's the less time consuming "ignore" button.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Fact: Every single one of us is knowingly or unkowingly a psychologist. We use empathy and experiance to make sence of our interactions and we build a picture of familial and cultural "norms". Thus we are able to acertain and make understanding observations of each other that while frequently able to be incorrect are none the less the basis of both psychology and sociology as fields of formal study.
Basson does NOT state that he KNOWS the effect of anyone`s upbringing on there adult person but he correctly states that if studies and our own empathy tell us anything there is ( obviously) an efect.
To my mind no pro bike rider "owes" the peloton anything when that same peloton use Omarta to enforce the code.
It`s dog eat dog.
I guess he didnt wanna stoop to that leval eh?

Yes you are correct,,, he does not owe the peloton. Did I say that? I said he had quit when the peloton needed someone like him the most.

True he must have felt that the fight was not something he wanted to get into.

@ Mellow Velo does my comments and opinion make me an Armstrong fan? You mention it first and it appears that is the direction some are trying to take my opinion.

My apologies for having a different opinion with regards to the Bassons interview.