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Re: Re:
So educate me as to why I am wrong? How training methodology, diet, technology and conditions play no part in times reducing over a period of years? Please. Because you know you're on unstable ground there...
Dear Wiggo said:
So educate me as to why I am wrong? How training methodology, diet, technology and conditions play no part in times reducing over a period of years? Please. Because you know you're on unstable ground there...
I found this on facebook from cyclingnews story on Danielson
. Nicholas Vicari
Like many other fans of the sport, I too have been struggling with the issue of whether or not the guys are doping and how I feel about it. I think I am slowly coming to the conclusion that I don't really care anymore. I've loved this sport for over 30 years now and will love it till I die. Pro cyclists did not invent cycling nor in my opinion do they represent what cycling is really all about. The business of cycle racing is a multi billion dollar industry, which basically means that some people stand to get very rich from it - ex. Lance and his private planes and hundreds of millions. Christ for the chance at those sorts of rewards I would probably dope too. Sport (not just cycling) and doping are like husband and wife. They will always be together, it has always been this way and always will. The sports people and their doctors will just find another drug or way to administer it to hopefully stay 1 step ahead of the controls.
I guess what I mean about this is if you love your sport, love it, enjoy it and do it, don't let the actions of the "pros" who are only doping for money and fame kill it for you.
Like · Reply · Report · 15 minutes ago
. Nicholas Vicari
Like many other fans of the sport, I too have been struggling with the issue of whether or not the guys are doping and how I feel about it. I think I am slowly coming to the conclusion that I don't really care anymore. I've loved this sport for over 30 years now and will love it till I die. Pro cyclists did not invent cycling nor in my opinion do they represent what cycling is really all about. The business of cycle racing is a multi billion dollar industry, which basically means that some people stand to get very rich from it - ex. Lance and his private planes and hundreds of millions. Christ for the chance at those sorts of rewards I would probably dope too. Sport (not just cycling) and doping are like husband and wife. They will always be together, it has always been this way and always will. The sports people and their doctors will just find another drug or way to administer it to hopefully stay 1 step ahead of the controls.
I guess what I mean about this is if you love your sport, love it, enjoy it and do it, don't let the actions of the "pros" who are only doping for money and fame kill it for you.
Like · Reply · Report · 15 minutes ago
Re: Re:
Training methodology, diet and technology are done by all the teams with a big dollop of doping on top.
Training methodology, diet and technology can only improve things in tiny increments. Doping is a huge increment.
argel said:
Training methodology, diet and technology are done by all the teams with a big dollop of doping on top.
Training methodology, diet and technology can only improve things in tiny increments. Doping is a huge increment.
Re: Re:
From being amateur, to becoming professional outfits, there would have been a jump in regards to nutrition etc. But these days, any gains would be made in grey areas between legal means and non legal.
There are only so many ways a person can eat, hydrate, train, race, monitor, live, rest etc. All of these and any combination of them all have been tried and tested by sports with much bigger budgets than cycling teams.
All cycling teams would do is apply "best practice" at the time. And you'd be kidding yourself if you think even a team on a relatively small budget can't do this. I can do it with no budget by using google.
Equipment is also a moot point. It's regulated and any sort of perceived gain is purely for marketing purposes now.
In another thread it was mentioned that the PR machine is just as much about controlling the doping narrative as it is about selling crap to people, I agree with that.
Benotti69 said:
From being amateur, to becoming professional outfits, there would have been a jump in regards to nutrition etc. But these days, any gains would be made in grey areas between legal means and non legal.
There are only so many ways a person can eat, hydrate, train, race, monitor, live, rest etc. All of these and any combination of them all have been tried and tested by sports with much bigger budgets than cycling teams.
All cycling teams would do is apply "best practice" at the time. And you'd be kidding yourself if you think even a team on a relatively small budget can't do this. I can do it with no budget by using google.
Equipment is also a moot point. It's regulated and any sort of perceived gain is purely for marketing purposes now.
In another thread it was mentioned that the PR machine is just as much about controlling the doping narrative as it is about selling crap to people, I agree with that.
I am a Sky fan since their beginnings. I liked Flecha's 2010 Omloop win, that was ok. like ok, good job. on with next race.
I did not like Uran, cheered for Barguil when he won that Vuelta stage against him. If that stage was raced today I would cheer for Uran.
before winter 2013/2014 I would have cheered 100% for Zubeldia against Roche during last Vuelta stage, even if Roche already rode for Sky.
not now. Roche (while riding for Sky) comes first.
If Roche rode for any other team (bar Lotto-Jumbo) I would have cheered for Zubeldia.
I am a different different Sky fans since the winter 2013/14. the clinic made me different. that Omloop 2014 (Stan/GVA) was when I began to root like mad for them. Omloop 2015 was incredible, their greatest win. for the sake of it. for their bashers.
I did not like Uran, cheered for Barguil when he won that Vuelta stage against him. If that stage was raced today I would cheer for Uran.
before winter 2013/2014 I would have cheered 100% for Zubeldia against Roche during last Vuelta stage, even if Roche already rode for Sky.
not now. Roche (while riding for Sky) comes first.
If Roche rode for any other team (bar Lotto-Jumbo) I would have cheered for Zubeldia.
I am a different different Sky fans since the winter 2013/14. the clinic made me different. that Omloop 2014 (Stan/GVA) was when I began to root like mad for them. Omloop 2015 was incredible, their greatest win. for the sake of it. for their bashers.
Picking Sky as a team to root for seems like an odd choice.
Not only do they have the best doping product, they also have UCI protection, the most money and they are owned by a media company.
Not sure how it can possibly get any more rigged than that.
Not only do they have the best doping product, they also have UCI protection, the most money and they are owned by a media company.
Not sure how it can possibly get any more rigged than that.
Re:
I liked them before too, but I was not a fan like these last 2 years after I began to follow the clinic and the twitter bashers.
I am fully aware they dope, I am even blocked by Froome.
it´s a competition among who likes his favourite doper: Quintana, Contador, Froome, Aru, Nibali, TD (the one from the lowlands) etc
rigged or not, there´s no holier than thou.
so when other riders´ fans behave holier than me, that´s where I root like mad for Sky
at the end it´s fun *, and one must not take himself or the others too seriously, and must try not to get angry for some bike races among juiced up athletes.
(*I am aware few riders have been singled out and blackmailed, they have every right to be angry, that´s not fun for them seeing their former fellow racers still continuing their career)
the sceptic said:
I liked them before too, but I was not a fan like these last 2 years after I began to follow the clinic and the twitter bashers.
I am fully aware they dope, I am even blocked by Froome.
it´s a competition among who likes his favourite doper: Quintana, Contador, Froome, Aru, Nibali, TD (the one from the lowlands) etc
rigged or not, there´s no holier than thou.
so when other riders´ fans behave holier than me, that´s where I root like mad for Sky
at the end it´s fun *, and one must not take himself or the others too seriously, and must try not to get angry for some bike races among juiced up athletes.
(*I am aware few riders have been singled out and blackmailed, they have every right to be angry, that´s not fun for them seeing their former fellow racers still continuing their career)
pastronef said:
The actions of others do not determine my attitude nor actions.
I remain true to myself.
I find the attitude of "Oh I do this coz it will annoy others" or "I do this because other people disagree with it" ... interesting, but not something I personally could ever do without feeling entirely dishonest.
Dear Wiggo said:
the action of others can also show me some sides of the matter I was not aware about before.
after some twitter guy tweeted a pic of a bunch of dollars to Mikel Nieve after he re-upped with Sky, I will enjoy MORE Nieve's performances and win next years (because I know that that guy would have welcomed Mikel with open arms had he signed for Tinkoff)
If he signed elsewhere I would have enjoyed him anyway, without the need to break his balls coz he left my fav team.
that's the attitude that makes me root MORE for them
MIllar will work with British cycling.
he admitted doing EPO, got 2 years and came back. and yes, made a career on doping, and got benefits after his comeback, I know.
Alberto made a better career than Millar, on doping too, didn´t admit the positive, never confessed, got suspended.
all hail Alberto while Millar is shyt?
mind, I like both riders, nothing against them.
he admitted doing EPO, got 2 years and came back. and yes, made a career on doping, and got benefits after his comeback, I know.
Alberto made a better career than Millar, on doping too, didn´t admit the positive, never confessed, got suspended.
all hail Alberto while Millar is shyt?
mind, I like both riders, nothing against them.
from the few nes we have
Sepulveda on the attack, Bennett Nibali and Pozzovivo chasing
go Georgeeee!!!!!!!!!! go Lotto Jumbo!
Sepulveda on the attack, Bennett Nibali and Pozzovivo chasing
go Georgeeee!!!!!!!!!! go Lotto Jumbo!
let me say that, about Paris-Nice.
If Yates was fighting for the win, I would have gladly cheered for him, or even Gallopin
let's imagine Thomas around 4th - 5th in GC, good perf as usual.
I would have genuinely cheered for the Orica guys without strings attached without hate/love reason
but just the fact Thomas and Sky have everybody against them, I cant help but cheer for them. this cheering could be defined "not genuine" "not true". fair to say that.
I will not remember Geraint Thomas 2016 Paris-Nice in a few years, as I wont with Poels' Volta Valenciana
me rooting for Sky is something strange. twitter and the clinic made me so. I cheer for spite
from people blaming Apollonio in 2015, to people tweeting a pic of dollars to Nieve when he re-upped with Sky and many other examples. I would never EVER behave like that even if I dislike a rider.
when the race is over I tell myself: "Fausto, you gone mad, you have always cheered for the less strong, the rider struggling, the one who comes second, the attacker".
I always cheered for riders with weird luck like Durand, Chiappucci, Vansummeren,Virenque, D.Martin, the Schlecks and co (apart from Miguel Indurian)
I always rooted for Garmin! hahaah! oh the disappointment in these years!
now I find me cheering for the strongest team.
I challenge any Sky hater to think about their hate just how I am reasoning with my cheering.
If Yates was fighting for the win, I would have gladly cheered for him, or even Gallopin
let's imagine Thomas around 4th - 5th in GC, good perf as usual.
I would have genuinely cheered for the Orica guys without strings attached without hate/love reason
but just the fact Thomas and Sky have everybody against them, I cant help but cheer for them. this cheering could be defined "not genuine" "not true". fair to say that.
I will not remember Geraint Thomas 2016 Paris-Nice in a few years, as I wont with Poels' Volta Valenciana
me rooting for Sky is something strange. twitter and the clinic made me so. I cheer for spite
from people blaming Apollonio in 2015, to people tweeting a pic of dollars to Nieve when he re-upped with Sky and many other examples. I would never EVER behave like that even if I dislike a rider.
when the race is over I tell myself: "Fausto, you gone mad, you have always cheered for the less strong, the rider struggling, the one who comes second, the attacker".
I always cheered for riders with weird luck like Durand, Chiappucci, Vansummeren,Virenque, D.Martin, the Schlecks and co (apart from Miguel Indurian)
I always rooted for Garmin! hahaah! oh the disappointment in these years!
now I find me cheering for the strongest team.
I challenge any Sky hater to think about their hate just how I am reasoning with my cheering.
The big 3 tours were originally organised to sell more newspapers. It worked. I love to follow cycling, doping-warts and all, because fiction just can't make this kind of stuff up. It wouldn't be the same anymore if alien space bats took the doping away. I hope it stays dirty until I get very talented offspring.
I am guilty, well, very far potentially
If I had a "doping leak" , some kind of info about someone, or about some wrong doings, even about an athlete I dont like at all, I would not write to Vayer´s and his merry crew new website, Sportleaks.
I know, I´m bad.
If I had a "doping leak" , some kind of info about someone, or about some wrong doings, even about an athlete I dont like at all, I would not write to Vayer´s and his merry crew new website, Sportleaks.
I know, I´m bad.
I thinkk this is the right thread to discuss Peraud?
Was he innocent, as he claims, in 1997 with a hematocrit over 50?
Has he published what his hematocrit was in any of the yyears since 1997?
That is, can he prove his normal/ clean is near that level?
Was he innocent, as he claims, in 1997 with a hematocrit over 50?
Has he published what his hematocrit was in any of the yyears since 1997?
That is, can he prove his normal/ clean is near that level?
Re:
I found this quote of peraud:
That still doesn't say how much over 50 he was, nor why it would be 52 instead of 47.
Shame said:
I found this quote of peraud:
That still doesn't say how much over 50 he was, nor why it would be 52 instead of 47.
everyone chooses. some support Sutton and GB, some support the Bahrain Prince team. it´s our own free choice. can´t argue with that
@Shame Peraud doped like the rest of the french MTB team back in the late 90s early 2000s. I recommend you looking up Peter Pouly. It's the famous french team with Absalon, Chiotti,Peraud, Pouly...
When it comes to HCT i recommend you reading this https://www.53x12.com/hematocrit-in-athletes
Vayer supports Pouly and Peraud because he coached them and thinks they're now clean. It is true that if indeed their lab results are correct their performances would be in what Sassi called the upper end of human physiology (Peraud VO2max of 86, Pouly 88) They definitely are gifted but we know that doping has long lasting effects on physiology so maybe those values aren't natural but the residual effects of years of doping.
@pastronef I get what you're saying. Leaking something on an athlete would only result in another doper getting the win... In regards to team choices supporting Bahrain is ridiculous, on the one hand I get why Italians would, it's basically an Italian team minus the bike and groupset... the rest unless you're a die hard fan of Dr.Ferrari's clients I don't see why... This is what cycling has to do to survive but prostituting themselves to the highest bidder is not something that should happen. Model needs to change to get rid of all that filth and yes SKY is included
When it comes to HCT i recommend you reading this https://www.53x12.com/hematocrit-in-athletes
Vayer supports Pouly and Peraud because he coached them and thinks they're now clean. It is true that if indeed their lab results are correct their performances would be in what Sassi called the upper end of human physiology (Peraud VO2max of 86, Pouly 88) They definitely are gifted but we know that doping has long lasting effects on physiology so maybe those values aren't natural but the residual effects of years of doping.
@pastronef I get what you're saying. Leaking something on an athlete would only result in another doper getting the win... In regards to team choices supporting Bahrain is ridiculous, on the one hand I get why Italians would, it's basically an Italian team minus the bike and groupset... the rest unless you're a die hard fan of Dr.Ferrari's clients I don't see why... This is what cycling has to do to survive but prostituting themselves to the highest bidder is not something that should happen. Model needs to change to get rid of all that filth and yes SKY is included
anti-brit bias aside. is "the most incredible donkey to racehorse" stuff, about Froome, somehow related to the how the people perceive what should be fair or not?
is that thing choking in the followers throats every time they see Froome, because it is not allowed?
because ok gimme Boonen or Alberto and I will close eyes and ears and WANT to support them, while seeing Froome do the same it touches the "truth" alarm and also involves Alberto and Boonen and Nibali and all the others cause they dope too?
is Froome madness also ringing a bell for everyone? and that means people really understand they support dopers too, while before they pretended they didnt see? they pretended it was normal, it was the old euro doping tradition?
are we seeing the pesky brits doing what they werent supposed to do, go berzerk, win the Tours, and shake the old status quo where the old nations did the same but it was always so and it was fine?
is that thing choking in the followers throats every time they see Froome, because it is not allowed?
because ok gimme Boonen or Alberto and I will close eyes and ears and WANT to support them, while seeing Froome do the same it touches the "truth" alarm and also involves Alberto and Boonen and Nibali and all the others cause they dope too?
is Froome madness also ringing a bell for everyone? and that means people really understand they support dopers too, while before they pretended they didnt see? they pretended it was normal, it was the old euro doping tradition?
are we seeing the pesky brits doing what they werent supposed to do, go berzerk, win the Tours, and shake the old status quo where the old nations did the same but it was always so and it was fine?
Lance was the evidence that a guy with medium quality could win big. Froome the evidence that a guy with no talent could win big.TourOfSardinia said:
Didnt know where to put this so will put it here. Bit of a discussion on doping in general from 5 mins onwards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7REC42JqU4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7REC42JqU4
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