Bernal vs. Pogacar vs. Evenepoel

[SHAD0W93]

Found the tennis connaisseur

The American in me
Tennis, American Football, cycling always have the worst field and the winner is “lucky” so and so wasn’t there
Than we reminisce about other riders in their prime would have a cakewalk.

 

[CyclistAbi]

While he has not proven it consisstently yet, vinegegaard can climb and TT at an elite level as well.

In my opinion he has already proved he is consistent.

 

[BigCoward]

In my opinion he has already proved he is consistent.

Across multiple GT's rather than within one GT.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Across multiple GT's rather than within one GT.

Yes. I see the consistency already. Based on the racing he has done so far.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I see the Giro and Tour both had weak fields again when it suits the narrative and undoubtedly when Roglic or anyone else really wins the Vuelta it will also be against a suitably weak field.

Can't speak for Vuelta just yet but considering the current Bahrain form. Giro 2021 didn't live up to its full potential. As for the Tour 2021 potential. It's just ridiculous what we got instead of that.

Still weak filed is not an appropriate term. I would say for both to be mid field ones and a lot of wasted potential involved.

 

[BigCoward]

Yes. I see the consistency already. Based on the racing he has done so far.

In GTs he has done 2 and finished 46th and 2nd. How does that show consistency?

 

[Netserk]

In GTs he has done 2 and finished 46th and 2nd. How does that show consistency?

After the 2013 Tour, Quintana was also yet to show consistency.

 

[CyclistAbi]

In GTs he has done 2 and finished 46th and 2nd. How does that show consistency?

Currently his job is to be a watchdog for Pogačar. Pogačar being the norm. As he never folded. That is good enough of an indicator for me.

 

[Red Rick]

In GTs he has done 2 and finished 46th and 2nd. How does that show consistency?

I think consistency shows in delivering in races you aim for. He either won a stage or was up in GC in every stage race he did this year apart from the Dauphine.

I think it's a bit funny to use a guys first GT where he rode as a pure domestique as some evidence of inconsistency. We'll simply see in future GTs. But his first Tour was nothing if not super consistent.

 

[BigCoward]

You all make good points without addressing the issue. How has he shown consistency in GT's? That's what I'm discussing.
Do I think he will, absolutely, he has all the tools apparently.
Has he shown it? No, anyone who argues otherwise clearly doesn't know what consistency means.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Could be wrong but it does look like he enjoys this job a tad more then the fish factory.

 

[CyclistAbi]

You all make good points without addressing the issue. How has he shown consistency in GT's? That's what I'm discussing.
Do I think he will, absolutely, he has all the tools apparently.
Has he shown it? No, anyone who argues otherwise clearly doesn't know what consistency means.

Well for start he has finished second on Tour beating all the rest bar Pogačar. It's not like it was given to him. He had to do it.

 

[BigCoward]

Well for start he has finished second on Tour beating all the rest bar Pogačar. It's not like it was given to him. He had to do it.

I don't want to sound rude but do you actually know what consistently means?
He hasn't done it consistently across GTs, I don't doubt he will, but he may not, there have been enough one hit wonders to know it may not happen for him again.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I don't want to sound rude but do you actually know what consistently means?
He hasn't done it consistently across GTs, I don't doubt he will, but he may not, there have been enough one hit wonders to know it may not happen for him again.

It just doesn't work like that. You can't fake consistency on a GT such as the Tour. You either have it or you don't. And i said earlier that Vingegaard proved, to me, he has it on other races.

And he can TT.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Anyway. For now i see Vingegaard in a role, where he will need to watch Pogačar and most importantly to neutralise attacks. Kuss alone won't do anymore.

We'll see.

 

[Lequack]

Will all three do any races together, maybe the world champs?

 

[Valanga]

Will all three do any races together, maybe the world champs?

Bernal isn't doing the worlds this year.

Pogacar and Evenepoel are though ;-)

 

[Lequack]

So Evenepoel beating Pog means he is winning the TDF next year.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So Evenepoel beating Pog means he is winning the TDF next year.

This was the first shot in 10-year Pogpoel war, no doubts. Pog was slightly hurt but it's just the beginning. Lombardy could be their next clash and hopefully Pog will do the Giro next year to take his revenge!

 

[geisterhome]

Can't speak for Vuelta just yet but considering the current Bahrain form. Giro 2021 didn't live up to its full potential. As for the Tour 2021 potential. It's just ridiculous what we got instead of that.

Still weak filed is not an appropriate term. I would say for both to be mid field ones and a lot of wasted potential involved.

Right now we have Pogacar and Roglic who stand out, a tier below that Bernal (if Vingegard can at least replicate what he has shown at the tdf I could see him on the same level) and then a larger group of GC riders who are of very similar potential so that nobody stands out- well, Carapaz might just a bit.

So unless all of those 3 (4) show up (and finish) at the same GT in top shape I dont think it well seem like we really have gotten a strong GC field, as the first rider below any of those guys will always be a one out of that generic and little exciting group.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@geisterhome

Next year likely Roglič, Pogačar and Bernal are all doing the Tour.

 

[geisterhome]

@geisterhome

Next year likely Roglič, Pogačar and Bernal are all doing the Tour.

I hope they will all be at their best. Chances are that for least one of those riders smth goes wrong at one point.

Would be interested how often such quest for a high placing in a GT GC actually works out for a rider. I mean from getting the preparation right, starting the race in top shape until finishing it while being high up in the GC. Lots of things can go wrong at any point.

Looking the the last Giro, Pinot didnt even manage to start, Landa and Buchmann crashed out, Evenepol faded quickly, Joao Almeida, George Bennett, Danial Martin didnt have an optimal race, Ciccone crashed late,Jay Hindley wasnt in shape, Nibali crashed before. For the Tour we all remember what happened to Roglic and Garraint Thomas, MALand Woods crashed, Gaudu and Uran had a bad day, Quintana and Tao never found their form, the list goes on...

 

[Bolder]

Right now we have Pogacar and Roglic who stand out, a tier below that Bernal (if Vingegard can at least replicate what he has shown at the tdf I could see him on the same level) and then a larger group of GC riders who are of very similar potential so that nobody stands out- well, Carapaz might just a bit.

So unless all of those 3 (4) show up (and finish) at the same GT in top shape I dont think it well seem like we really have gotten a strong GC field, as the first rider below any of those guys will always be a one out of that generic and little exciting group.

I agree with this assessment of talent. Only the 2 Slovenians are the complete and consistent GC package right now. Bernal's back is still a question mark to me. Dumoulin pre injury was also on Roglic's level, at least.

Too early to say about Vingegaard.

But you can only compete against the field you have, and there are different factors that can make a race hard or easier. We just can't list a bunch of names or cite margins of victory and declare that the field was weak or strong. Sure, this Vuelta was a relatively easy win for Roglic, but the start list was "strong." A lot of things transpired in some crucial moments, and voilà, we have a "weak" field...

Was the 2020 Vuelta a strong or weak field? I thought it was a strong field with some very motivated riders, and Roglic rode a helluva race. But you could certainly argue otherwise, because so many GC riders are inconsistent. For example, what is Landa's true level? We just don't know.

 

[Red Rick]

It's very hard to rate the GT field below Roglic and Pogacar right now tbh. Lot of inconsistency, crashing out, etc

Bernal is probably up with those 2 climbing wise on his day but other than that I dunno. I think the gap between Roglic-Pogacar and the 3rd best rider could easily be bigger than the gap between the 3rd best GT rider and the 10th best GT rider.

Currently I would just leave Evenepoel unranked as a GT rider cause there's insufficient information.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

@geisterhome

Next year likely Roglič, Pogačar and Bernal are all doing the Tour.

Nah, next year will be Pog vs Remco at the Giro and Rog vs crashes vs his rebel teammate at the Tour.
Bernal will have a hard time finding a GT without the Slovenians (probably will peak for Tour of Colombia).