Bernal vs. Pogacar vs. Evenepoel

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Look at Buchmann who is developing slowly into a GT contender, he wasn't anywhere near the level of those guys with 20/21, and he was very close to Bernal level last TdF. Could be that in 5 years we have a ride ,who nobody heard of yet, aged e.g. 28 (= older than all 3 then) surpassing them all and dominating into his mid 30ies. In cycling nowadays you can peak anywhere between 20 and 35 I feel, maybe even later if you got the drive.
This perspective is the missing truth for all riders along with potential injuries. We're also seeing each of these riders being fairly well protected by strong teams and taking their opportunities at the right time. They're all good tactically which should bode well for the future. How they each handle pressure when they're the #1 team rider and aren't having a good day will be interesting. Pogacar has been resilient and fairly chill about his success. If we actually get to see a GT this year it'll be interesting....
 
So here is one answer to the question
NIcolas Roche was asked which he thought was the best and he said
Bernal

He said all 3 are amazing talents but he went for Bernal becasue Egan has a wonderful attitude and is so calm/cool in the peloton
He doesn't know the other 2 well though
 
I like Bernal best as a person, but all three of them seem to be totally able to handle success, Bernal and Pogacar in a calmer way. Evenepoel seems to be (among three very ambitious young guys) the most ambitious, but I think if success doesn't come the way he wanted it, this trait will make him work the hardest. In that regard he's a slight Ronaldo-type to me. The only thing that can really stop him long term is probably a serious injury.
But I agree someone might come along that no one pays much attention to until he has suddenly won something big out of the blue. That just happens so often.
 
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So here is one answer to the question
NIcolas Roche was asked which he thought was the best and he said
Bernal

He said all 3 are amazing talents but he went for Bernal becasue Egan has a wonderful attitude and is so calm/cool in the peloton
He doesn't know the other 2 well though
That's the thing, Pogacar seems to be cool and calm as well.
I don't really know about Evenepoel. We probably need to see him in a 3 week race.
 
Seeing some Americans that have the same, cool attitude: Neilson Powless and Sepp Kuss. Not intimidated by the stage or the competition. Neilson is 23 and continues with the sort of progression we saw regionally. There are probably a dozen candidates in each country that could prove themselves given the chance, too.
 
Is Pogacar the future? «He and Evenepoel are the future. Tadej is a runner who goes faster every day, unique in the world. He has a monstrous recovery and an incredible head. He has legs that look like a pupil's and therefore ample room for improvement. Respect everyone, including staff. And he has values as a person ».

Evenepoel: «When I met Remco I thought it was a phenomenon. I wanted to park it two years at Axel Merckx, but Lefevere wanted it immediately with him. He won as a junior in his seventh race ».

 
not a bad time to bring this thread back to the top, i think.

as anyone following these threads know, I am on the Remco bandwagon (though one or two more "brush off" celebrations could sour that).

however, let me explain why I am more inclined to support Remco over Bernal in future GTs.

because Remco is an all-rounder.

Bernal is not. He got trounced in the only short ITT last year (despite its considerable difficulty).

In any other era Bernal would aim to be top five (and win the climber's jersey perhaps). He might win a very mountainous route once in a while -- like Van Impe did (or when the competition was either not there or fell away -- a little like it did last year).

Call me old-fashioned or a traditionalist -- I fully understand that mine is not likely to be a popular opinion -- but why have the TTers been required to climb with the top climbers to win a GT, but the climbers have not been required to improve their ITT.

I realize that it is exciting to see a climber pull away on a steep hill, but if that is the only requirement of a 3 week GT... it kind of defeats the purpose of crowning the strongest all-round rider.

Don't get me wrong, I believe Bernal is a fabulously talented rider whose rides will be fun to watch. It is the GT organizers that are failing. They have gone for the quick fix -- add more steep mountains and less ITT to make things "closer". I don't want things closer -- I want the strongest all-round rider to win. And what about more Strade Bianche type stages (not gravel), but lots of ups and downs and narrow roads where leaders will get isolated and differences can be made.

The interesting things about Remco as well is that he can win one day classics and the world ITT -- and I am not just talking about LBL and Lombardy. He harkens back to another time, last seen with Hinault.
 
That said (and I see where you are coming from), Bernal is an absolute fine timetrialist.

Last year:
6th Paris-Nice over 25.5km (one hill in it)
11th TdS over 19.2km (completely flat)
22nd TdF over 27.2km (hillyish)
There was a time where that was nowhere near good enough to win a GT, that is my only point. Riders not in the top 5 or so in a major GT ITT rarely won the whole thing. I am not saying Bernal is bad at TT. Just not enough to be called the strongest all-rounder, that's all.

And then you have to realize that his time losses in any ITT are now so reduced by the lack of them and distance...

Before this recent era, climbers could lose 6+ minutes in ITTs and have to try and make it back...

All I'm saying.
 
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Bernal is complett, all-rounder. Fact. Because TdF win. And he is all-rounder because of his qualities. Excellent tt'er, super climber, very fearless in downhill, in criterium-like group hassles, in sidewinds, in rain, in hot. Three weeks.

Evenepoel is almost as even (no pun..) but we don't know three weeks and that is a big ask. But soon. :cool:
 
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Bernal is complett, all-rounder. Fact. Because TdF win. And he is all-rounder because of his qualities. Excellent tt'er, super climber, very fearless in downhill, in criterium-like group hassles, in sidewinds, in rain, in hot. Three weeks.

Evenepoel is almost as even (no pun..) but we don't know three weeks and that is a big ask. But soon. :cool:
Fair.

I would just argue that the idea of what was needed to be "complete" has changed quite drastically in the last decade...

For example, a rider finishing 22nd in the biggest mountain stage of a GT would not be considered an "excellent" climber, the best all-rounder or deserving of winning a GT... :)
 
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not a bad time to bring this thread back to the top, i think.

as anyone following these threads know, I am on the Remco bandwagon (though one or two more "brush off" celebrations could sour that).

however, let me explain why I am more inclined to support Remco over Bernal in future GTs.

because Remco is an all-rounder.

Bernal is not. He got trounced in the only short ITT last year (despite its considerable difficulty).

In any other era Bernal would aim to be top five (and win the climber's jersey perhaps). He might win a very mountainous route once in a while -- like Van Impe did (or when the competition was either not there or fell away -- a little like it did last year).

Call me old-fashioned or a traditionalist -- I fully understand that mine is not likely to be a popular opinion -- but why have the TTers been required to climb with the top climbers to win a GT, but the climbers have not been required to improve their ITT.

I realize that it is exciting to see a climber pull away on a steep hill, but if that is the only requirement of a 3 week GT... it kind of defeats the purpose of crowning the strongest all-round rider.

Don't get me wrong, I believe Bernal is a fabulously talented rider whose rides will be fun to watch. It is the GT organizers that are failing. They have gone for the quick fix -- add more steep mountains and less ITT to make things "closer". I don't want things closer -- I want the strongest all-round rider to win. And what about more Strade Bianche type stages (not gravel), but lots of ups and downs and narrow roads where leaders will get isolated and differences can be made.

The interesting things about Remco as well is that he can win one day classics and the world ITT -- and I am not just talking about LBL and Lombardy. He harkens back to another time, last seen with Hinault.
I don't post much so forgive me for joining the discussion. I remember a few years ago people complaining on the forum that Froome was so dominant in GT's and it was all boring from MTF #1. Forging a gap there and then holding it with the help of his team AND his superb TT ability. I admit GT racing was a little stale at times. With the lack of TT km's things have opened up a bit. (Let's for a moment ignore the organisers attempts to diversify the racing with the addition of ridiculous Muritos like Super-Planche in the tour and Los Machucos in the Vuelta, which in my opinion don't do much damage) INEOS being simply less dominant and Froome not present in the last year or so sure have helped. Yet you can't just put the lack of total dominance in the last 5 GT's all on INEOS and Froome alone (I know they still won most GT's but not in that Uber-dominant fashion of 2012-17). So all I am saying is, I think there is a correlation with the lack of long ITT's. Now I am not saying that's how I prefer it. I am just saying removing the amount of TT km's contributed somewhat.
 
Fair.

I would just argue that the idea of what was needed to be "complete" has changed quite drastically in the last decade...

For example, a rider finishing 22nd in the biggest mountain stage of a GT would not be considered an "excellent" climber, the best all-rounder or deserving of winning a GT... :)
You're working under the premise that TTs and climbing should be weighted 50/50. Some may disagree but I don't think that should be the case. I also don't think you should have to be a top 5 TTer to win a GT, but again that's just my opinion. Sure, things have changed with the way GTs are designed but that's how it works. You alter things as sports evolve and change. I'm perfectly fine with that.
 
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You're working under the premise that TTs and climbing should be weighted 50/50. Some may disagree but I don't think that should be the case. I also don't think you should have to be a top 5 TTer to win a GT, but again that's just my opinion. Sure, things have changed with the way GTs are designed but that's how it works. You alter things as sports evolve and change. I'm perfectly fine with that.
I agree. At the current state with all contenders, not just these young stars, the most equitable TT would occur late in the GT. Some varied terrain would also even out the performances and not favor a particular attribute. Now, add a serious alpine stage two days later and see how it works out. That scenario should favor the strongest 3 week racer and give us an less debatable finish?
 
This thread is still crap. There's much, much more on the come up than just these three and they can't nor should be shoved aside.
I don't think it's crap. I'm fine with comparing guys, we do it all the time. No one is saying these 3 will dominate and there won't be anyone else in the mix. Chances are one of these guys will wind up disappointing anyway.

Only issue for now is that these guys have yet to do any races together. I don't think there's been a single race day that even two of these guys have shared.
 
Fair.

I would just argue that the idea of what was needed to be "complete" has changed quite drastically in the last decade...

For example, a rider finishing 22nd in the biggest mountain stage of a GT would not be considered an "excellent" climber, the best all-rounder or deserving of winning a GT... :)
He was a domestique at work, team took yellow in Paris, he got second in white jersey classification? In comparison could be decent entry for Evenepoel to take white and with Knox and others help Alaphilippe to podium in Paris :D
 
I don't think it's crap. I'm fine with comparing guys, we do it all the time. No one is saying these 3 will dominate and there won't be anyone else in the mix. Chances are one of these guys will wind up disappointing anyway.

Only issue for now is that these guys have yet to do any races together. I don't think there's been a single race day that even two of these guys have shared.
They all 3 rode in San Sebastian last year. And both Pogacar and Evenepoel did the WC last year. But I think that's it so far.
 
This thread is still crap. There's much, much more on the come up than just these three and they can't nor should be shoved aside.
Comparisons will eventually fade away. Just like they have started to fade away with van Aert and van der Poel.

He was a domestique at work, team took yellow in Paris, he got second in white jersey classification? In comparison could be decent entry for Evenepoel to take white and with Knox and others help Alaphilippe to podium in Paris :D
How the hell is Evenepoel going to take white without winning yellow?
 
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