Bernal vs. Pogacar vs. Evenepoel

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I fully understand this thread but I think Sivakov should also feature. He has been a bit smothered, riding for Ineos (and of course didn't outright win the Giro as a 21-year-old) but seems to be really good too (just 10 seconds slower than Bernal today).
 
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I fully understand this thread but I think Sivakov should also feature. He has been a bit smothered, riding for Ineos (and of course didn't outright win the Giro as a 21-year-old) but seems to be really good too (just 10 seconds slower than Bernal today).
Everybody is free to compare whoever, but i'm afraid Sivakov isn't going to look that great in comparison. And if we include him, we could include a few others as well.
 
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Everybody is free to compare whoever, but i'm afraid Sivakov isn't going to look that great in comparison.
And that may very well be true. Certainly, his pro results so far don't look nearly as flashy as the three others.

But his Ineos teammates seem really impressed by him (judging from the Watts Occurring podcast). And that may not only be because he beat them in poker.
 
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I fully understand this thread but I think Sivakov should also feature. He has been a bit smothered, riding for Ineos (and of course didn't outright win the Giro as a 21-year-old) but seems to be really good too (just 10 seconds slower than Bernal today).
Bernal didn’t get smothered by his team for long because of the level he was at. He was too darn good. I don’t think the same could be said of Sivakov.
 
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And that may very well be true. Certainly, his pro results so far don't look nearly as flashy as the three others.

But his Ineos teammates seem really impressed by him (judging from the Watts Occurring podcast). And that may not only be because he beat them in poker.
He seems to follow a much more "classic" curve of progression. Maybe he'll have won more in 10 years, that's very possible, but in comparison to the trio in this thread, at his age, it's hard to bring him into the debate. He's not a worldclass ITT'er like Evenepoel, and he isn't a worldclass climber like Bernal. I doubt he'll ever become as good (while still excellent).

The reason somebody started this thread is because Bernal, Evenepoel and Pogacar, at their age, have something "extraterestrial" about them. That's not the case for Sivakov. He actually said this himself in an interview with French TV, who said he had a fantastic season. He said it was a bit underwhelming compared to these guys.
 
He seems to follow a much more "classic" curve of progression. Maybe he'll have won more in 10 years, that's very possible, but in comparison to the trio in this thread, at his age, it's hard to bring him into the debate. He's not a worldclass ITT'er like Evenepoel, and he isn't a worldclass climber like Bernal. I doubt he'll ever become as good (while still excellent).

The reason somebody started this thread is because Bernal, Evenepoel and Pogacar, at their age, have something "extraterestrial" about them. That's not the case for Sivakov. He actually said this himself in an interview with French TV, who said he had a fantastic season. He said it was a bit underwhelming compared to these guys.
Yup, I'm fully with you.

Still, winning the Tour of the Alps and the Tour de Pologne the year you turn 22 used to be something :)
 
Sivakov is a really good rider developing nicely but, as others have said, his progress has been far more in line with the natural expected development of a gifted rider rather than precociously gifted like the three in this thread.

Every chance he wins a Grand Tour but then again many well favoured in the last decade like Uran, Porte, Majka, Pinot have not got across the line for various reasons.

Hard to see him becoming the preeminent force.
 
I am afraid that if Bernal is the future, for Ineos, Sivakov will have a hard time in this team, to fully develop all potentials and show what he is capable of.
If they are serious about keeping Sivakov Ineos will need to take him to the Giro as undisputed leader with support. Because he's shaping up to be a top tier GT rider as well, even if Bernal is the no. 1.
 
I am afraid that if Bernal is the future, for Ineos, Sivakov will have a hard time in this team, to fully develop all potentials and show what he is capable of.
With Froome gone as Thomas not getting any younger, Sivakov will have certainly several opportunities to be Ineos leader in the Giro and Vuelta (or backup leader for the Tour).

He clearly looks like the second best rider out of their youngsters.
 
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Next year Bernal hinted he would like to do Giro. Hard to imagine Sivakov role won't be set to help. Considering the tactics Sky/Ineos used in the past and with the emergence of TJV, a lot of potential GT winners more or less must play a different role.

We'll see.
 

If they are serious about keeping Sivakov Ineos will need to take him to the Giro as undisputed leader with support. Because he's shaping up to be a top tier GT rider as well, even if Bernal is the no. 1.
It was him who was requesting to go to the Tour this year.
 
With Froome gone as Thomas not getting any younger, Sivakov will have certainly several opportunities to be Ineos leader in the Giro and Vuelta (or backup leader for the Tour).

He clearly looks like the second best rider out of their youngsters.
Don't forget Carapaz. He's not quite a youngster but he's only 27 and will be around for awhile as well.
 
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Next year Bernal hinted he would like to do Giro. Hard to imagine Sivakov role won't be set to help. Considering the tactics Sky/Ineos used in the past and with the emergence of TJV, a lot of potential GT winners more or less must play a different role.

We'll see.
Tim Kerrison has said that Sivakov is the best athlete he's worked with and he's worked with Froome, Thomas and Olympic Champion swimmers. With Froome gone he'll co-lead next year a GT next. I'm surprised that he's not co-leading at the Giro rather than doing the Tour. Ineos are a little light behind Carapaz - Sosa? Although I really rate Dunbar. Maybe leadership at the Vuelta which Bernal and Thomas have shown no interest in.

As for the emergence of TJV, is good that you hold a candle for van Garderen, but it's going to happen
 
Tim Kerrison has said that Sivakov is the best athlete he's worked with and he's worked with Froome, Thomas and Olympic Champion swimmers. With Froome gone he'll co-lead next year a GT next. I'm surprised that he's not co-leading at the Giro rather than doing the Tour. Ineos are a little light behind Carapaz - Sosa? Although I really rate Dunbar. Maybe leadership at the Vuelta which Bernal and Thomas have shown no interest in.

As for the emergence of TJV, is good that you hold a candle for van Garderen, but it's going to happen
What does the term” best athlete“ even mean......? At that age? Ever throughout that riders career? Cause I know Froomes best numbers still beat Sivakovs best numbers. I feel like people say things like this too Flippantly. It’s like when riders always say their numbers are better than they've ever been.
 
Tim Kerrison has said that Sivakov is the best athlete he's worked with and he's worked with Froome, Thomas and Olympic Champion swimmers. With Froome gone he'll co-lead next year a GT next. I'm surprised that he's not co-leading at the Giro rather than doing the Tour. Ineos are a little light behind Carapaz - Sosa? Although I really rate Dunbar. Maybe leadership at the Vuelta which Bernal and Thomas have shown no interest in.
Again, Sivakov asked to do the Tour himself.

Also, talk about "the best athlete i worked with"... what does that mean? Maybe as an overall athlete he wouldn't rate Bernal that high. Maybe he would say that a guy like van Aert or Ganna are even more impressive "athletes". Would he even rate Evenepoel as an athlete? Comments like that can go straight in the garbage bin imho.
 
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Will he?

The guy has been world class once in his life and is 27. Hardly the most reliable of prospects...

I don't think he will win another Grand Tour.
He may not but winning a GT is hard. I'd probably bet against Sivakov ever winning one. Nothing lacking in his reliability. He's shown steady improvement and had finished 4th the year before his Giro win. It's not as if it came completely out of nowhere and he had shown nothing before that.
 
He may not but winning a GT is hard. I'd probably bet against Sivakov ever winning one. Nothing lacking in his reliability. He's shown steady improvement and had finished 4th the year before his Giro win. It's not as if it came completely out of nowhere and he had shown nothing before that.
Yeah, Carapaz maybe has only been world class "once in his life" but Sivakov has been world class never. They both have done well in small races and both did well in their first Giro. So one was 25 and the other was 22. What difference does that make?
 
Sivakov is a really good rider developing nicely but, as others have said, his progress has been far more in line with the natural expected development of a gifted rider rather than precociously gifted like the three in this thread.

Every chance he wins a Grand Tour but then again many well favoured in the last decade like Uran, Porte, Majka, Pinot have not got across the line for various reasons.

Hard to see him becoming the preeminent force.
On the other hand, the riders dominating GTs in the past decade (Froome, Contador, Nibali) were all late to the party.
The most precocious of them didn't win a Grand Tour until he was 24.

We really have no idea what will happen in the next 5 years.
 
On the other hand, the riders dominating GTs in the past decade (Froome, Contador, Nibali) were all late to the party.
The most precocious of them didn't win a Grand Tour until he was 24.

We really have no idea what will happen in the next 5 years.
Contador especially showed flashes really early. Nibali slightly less so, but he got 19th in his first GT while being a domestique and just didn't go through the peckign order that fast. I wouldn't really consider that late. Froome is well, Froome.

With Pogacar, Bernal and Evenepoel, all seem like early bloomers to me, and I say that without making judgment about their potential. Whatever their peak level will be, I don't think they'll be making big steps until their late 20s.
 

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