Bernal vs. Pogacar vs. Evenepoel

[Oldermanish]

let's see what kind of route is presented for next year.

If it is more of a traditional route with 2 very long ITTs, Evenepoel should win it in his sleep.

If it is another high altitude fest, then Bernal should win in his sleep

Something like this year, could be a real battle between Evenepoel and Pogacar

You youngsters....you don't think the old farts won't figure out how to beat them? GT racing is about 3 weeks, not just TTs. If a "traditional route" with 2 long tts were the deal we could "assume" Dumo would have won this Tour in retrospect. Evenepoel is hurt and recovering. Bernal is shocked and, hopefully rethinking who he listens to on preparation. Pogacar has a target on his back and will be punished for his success like every winner. If he has a good team he will still be there but he can't count on the JV free ride next time.
It'll be all new next season.

 

[frisenfruitig]

How do you figure the 'old farts' are going to beat these young guys who will only get stronger whilst they get weaker? I really don't see guys like Quintana, Thomas, Porte, Froome etc. beating the new kids on the block to be honest.

It's not like people didn't know who Pogacar was before this tdf either. You can put a target on his back all you like but he just put over a minute on Dumoulin in a TT and no one was better than him uphill...

Then just imagine Evenepoel and Bernal at their usual levels on top of that. I'm more inclined to think it's all over for the old farts.

 

[gregrowlerson]

How do you figure the 'old farts' are going to beat these young guys who will only get stronger whilst they get weaker? I really don't see guys like Quintana, Thomas, Porte, Froome etc. beating the new kids on the block to be honest.

It's not like people didn't know who Pogacar was before this tdf either. You can put a target on his back all you like but he just put over a minute on Dumoulin in a TT and no one was better than him uphill...

Then just imagine Evenepoel and Bernal at their usual levels on top of that. I'm more inclined to think it's all over for the old farts.

Upcoming Giro is possibly last chance saloon for Thomas, Nibali, Fulgsang and Crushweak.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So it's 1/1 for them in the current decade. Can they reach 16/30, as I predicted?

 

[Oldermanish]

How do you figure the 'old farts' are going to beat these young guys who will only get stronger whilst they get weaker? I really don't see guys like Quintana, Thomas, Porte, Froome etc. beating the new kids on the block to be honest.

It's not like people didn't know who Pogacar was before this tdf either. You can put a target on his back all you like but he just put over a minute on Dumoulin in a TT and no one was better than him uphill...

Then just imagine Evenepoel and Bernal at their usual levels on top of that. I'm more inclined to think it's all over for the old farts.

Gts are strategic events and not MMA cage matches. This year's killer move won't be a surprise next year if everyone get the usual opportunity to train.
And is Evenpoel winning races now? What's Bernal's next move? It's about more than what you did. You have to Do Now and all of the young guys of old are facing that fact.

I think Tadej is a supremely talented racer and tactician who has always free-lanced very well. He's come through with the closing performances in this new career and it's impressive. The guys you list as not beating the new kids probably won't beat them as you claim. Currently only one of the three studs on this string has won anything recently, by the way. One is still recovering from a navigation error at the back of the pack in a descent and the other one has to figure out his training for the next Big Tour.
You don't think Roglic, Dumo, Hirshci, Allaphillipe….won't be more prepared next year. Sure you do. New guys are coming all the time and it's good for racing.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Wow, as of today this is no contest. Bernal needs to regroup and assess what went wrong I suspect he will struggle on routes that don't include plenty of 2,000+ metre stages. Evenepoel needs to finish a Grand Tour first. On paper he should be good but too many unanswered questions.

Remco has so much to prove with regards to winning GT's. When you look at the firepower JV had this tour and have come away with only a few stage wins. Pretty poor. Remco will have a to do a lot more than what he has shown so far. Winning warm up races doesn't prove you're gonna win the big races.

 

[Bardamu]

Remco has so much to prove with regards to winning GT's. When you look at the firepower JV had this tour and have come away with only a few stage wins. Pretty poor. Remco will have a to do a lot more than what he has shown so far. Winning warm up races doesn't prove you're gonna win the big races.

Nono you don't get it, he will win every GT he enters and break every record set by mankind and there is just no other way.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Remco has so much to prove with regards to winning GT's. When you look at the firepower JV had this tour and have come away with only a few stage wins. Pretty poor. Remco will have a to do a lot more than what he has shown so far. Winning warm up races doesn't prove you're gonna win the big races.

I mean sure, if you disregard who he was beating in those "warm up races" and forget the way he destroyed everyone, then I guess it doesn't prove anything.

 

[Bardamu]

Eddy Merckx: "Let's not be too hasty about Remco Evenepoel. So far, he didn't prove anything. He talks a lot but about the rest, I'm still waiting to see. I don't think Pogacar's victory is good news for him, he set the bar very high."

 

[frisenfruitig]

Gts are strategic events and not MMA cage matches. This year's killer move won't be a surprise next year if everyone get the usual opportunity to train.
And is Evenpoel winning races now? What's Bernal's next move? It's about more than what you did. You have to Do Now and all of the young guys of old are facing that fact.

I think Tadej is a supremely talented racer and tactician who has always free-lanced very well. He's come through with the closing performances in this new career and it's impressive. The guys you list as not beating the new kids probably won't beat them as you claim. Currently only one of the three studs on this string has won anything recently, by the way. One is still recovering from a navigation error at the back of the pack in a descent and the other one has to figure out his training for the next Big Tour.
You don't think Roglic, Dumo, Hirshci, Allaphillipe….won't be more prepared next year. Sure you do. New guys are coming all the time and it's good for racing.

Roglic wasn't well prepared this year? He was the main favourite and still lost to Pogacar. Allaphillipe will never win a GT and Hirschi is 22 years old. Thought we were talking about old farts? Dumo... Perhaps, but I don't think he has what it takes uphill against the new kids.

 

[Red Rick]

I mean sure, if you disregard who he was beating in those "warm up races" and forget the way he destroyed everyone, then I guess it doesn't prove anything.

And then you see how Roglic was stomping Pogacar in the Duaphine I guess it did prove something.

 

[Red Rick]

Eddy Merckx: "Let's not be too hasty about Remco Evenepoel. So far, he didn't prove anything. He talks a lot but about the rest, I'm still waiting to see. I don't think Pogacar's victory is good news for him, he set the bar very high."

"I am the original Eddy Merckx get this false prohpet out of my sight"

 

[frisenfruitig]

And then you see how Roglic was stomping Pogacar in the Duaphine I guess it did prove something.

Roglic losing to Pogacar doesn't suddenly mean he wasn't ridiculously strong or anything

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic losing to Pogacar doesn't suddenly mean he wasn't ridiculously strong or anything

It shows you that you can't win GTs in prep races and he needs to prove it in those GTs.

 

[frisenfruitig]

It shows you that you can't win GTs in prep races and he needs to prove it in those GTs.

It's not a guarantee but it is a clear indicator that the potential more than likely is there, especially if you do it over and over again. There is always a chance he won't be able to do it in a 3 week race but that feels like wishful thinking to me.

 

[Red Rick]

It's not a guarantee but it is a clear indicator that the potential more than likely is there, especially if you do it over and over again. There is always a chance he won't be able to do it in a 3 week race but that feels like wishful thinking to me.

Well, I would've considered him the favorite for the Giro based on what I've seen before, but this Tour has been an entirely different level. Evenepoel has a very high base level along with an ITT that enables him to pick off small stage races as if taking candy from a baby, but he'll need to be up there in the high mountains with the likes of Pogacar for 3 weeks if the latter is gonna TT like this.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Well, I would've considered him the favorite for the Giro based on what I've seen before, but this Tour has been an entirely different level. Evenepoel has a very high base level along with an ITT that enables him to pick off small stage races as if taking candy from a baby, but he'll need to be up there in the high mountains with the likes of Pogacar for 3 weeks if the latter is gonna TT like this.

I don't know if this Tour has been an entirely different level or that Evenepoel isn't on that level yet. I would say everything we have seen so far from him suggests he's up to the task.

Normally I would say it is too early to say stuff like this at this age but there doesn't seem to be anything normal about this guy.

 

[bob.a.feet]

It's not a guarantee but it is a clear indicator that the potential more than likely is there, especially if you do it over and over again. There is always a chance he won't be able to do it in a 3 week race but that feels like wishful thinking to me.

Beating Fuglsang, Yates and Majka is a different ballgame to beating Pogacar, Roglic and Bernal in the Tour. Even if he can hold his form for three weeks it's far from guaranteed that he would win.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

"I am the original Eddy Merckx get this false prohpet out of my sight"

It's getting pathetic really. In 2018, when Remco was about to sign for Axel, it was "incredible, he might be better than me. I think he is better than me". Remco doesn't sign for for Axel "Remco hasn't proven anything". Every. Two. Months. OG Eddy is Reddy for the retirement home.

 

[BlueRoads]

It's getting pathetic really. In 2018, when Remco was about to sign for Axel, it was "incredible, he might be better than me. I think he is better than me". Remco doesn't sign for for Axel "Remco hasn't proven anything". Every. Two. Months. OG Eddy is Reddy for the retirement home.

What retired riders say about the young, active ones, is almost always about them, not about the active rider.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think the sudden rise of all those super talents has also to do with the previous generation (1990-1992) not living up to the hype. They were always overshadowed by Froome, Contador and Nibali. Now that those guys are declining many of that generation are also already declining, so the field is wide open for the young guns.

 

[hayneplane]

Upcoming Giro is possibly last chance saloon for Thomas, Nibali, Fulgsang and Crushweak.

Agreed, one of the over 30s will likely win the Giro but it will be the last one any of them win and might even not get that if Vlasov can grow through the race.

 

[Salvarani]

Bernal and Evenepoel have suffered a few bad crashes each now. They need to stay healthy first and foremost, before it gets the best out of them. Whether that comes down to bad luck or they not being the best bike-handlers can be another thing to talk about.

So far Pog beats them in a few areas and showcased he is a more complete rider. He also seems to have a really strong and good head on his shoulders. Which might be an very underrated factor here.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Agreed, one of the over 30s will likely win the Giro but it will be the last one any of them win and might even not get that if Vlasov can grow through the race.

Don't forget Yates.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Beating Fuglsang, Yates and Majka is a different ballgame to beating Pogacar, Roglic and Bernal in the Tour. Even if he can hold his form for three weeks it's far from guaranteed that he would win.

And Remco needs to make a full recovery firstly. Hopefully he does, but it's not a guarantee (unless others have positive updates about his rehabilitation?).