Beryl Burton.. Did she...

[hondated]

removed by op

 

[ebandit]

beryl

shame you don't have more info.................where / what / when?

good on ya for asking the question............this is the place to do it

i have no knowledge of beryl doping but she was always someone that i have

looked up to..................a humble hero..........i have always accepted that

she rode 100% clean..................not as i truly know but i have never heard

otherwise.............and there is beryl's own quote..........'raced on nothing

stronger than a cup of tea'................and her fondness for hard work / jelly

babies and liquorice allsorts

 

[sniper]

Some weeks ago now in a local cafe I got talking about BB and her achievements in cycling and I was amazed to learn from an old cyclists that although he could not confirm it he thought that she may have been on drugs.

His opinion was based on something his now deceased wife who raced against her in France had once told him.

Why I find that so interesting is that the focus always seems to be on the men who dope but very little on the women.

Stands back and waits for flack.

Somebody "thought" that BB "may have been" doping, but "could not confirm".
And drugs, could be recreational.

Anyway, BB raced in the 1950s.
I would not be shocked to hear women doped in the 1950s, but without context and more specific details there really is nothing to see here.

btw, women doping does get attention here, just that there is much less to comment on. Less positives, mainly.

 

[hondated]

Comment withdrawn

 

[Zweistein]

ebandit yes I feel a bit like you because I have held her in great esteem for many years just as I have Reg Harris so I don't think its for me to cast aspersions on her achievements without being to validate them personally.The point of the posting is to see whether any forum members could offer any further information on BB.
The only additional information that I could offer is that the fella I was speaking to told me that his wife could speak french and that she went with other girls, who were not aware that she could speak it and so things were said that they thought that she may not understand, into BBs room and there were supposedly pills laying on the bed.
Now these could have just been some sort of general pain killers who knows and to be fair to the fella who was telling me this story he had no more prove than I have of anything underhand taking place.
I suppose I return to one of the points I make in my original message and it is if the men were doing it ie Tommy Simpson et al its not unreasonable to assume that the women could also be doing it.

Hopefully someone with a greater knowledge of that period in cycling can provide us with some positiveinformation.

It is not unreasonable to assume that she maybe doped. However, it is not kosher to connect dots based on the fact that there were "pills laying on the bed." Well, I suppose logically it works if you believe that all people who use pills dope? Also, because your benevolent friend told you this you are some how absolved from repeating a story with little basis?

I am really starting to believe that there are people on this forum who are paid to try to paint that everyone has and does dope in cycling so it is not a "crime". This and the thread about Greg Lemond supposedly having super secret access to EPO ,which was in very small trials <30, shows how badly someone wants everyone to have dirt on them.

 

[will10]

Hamilton mentions BB numerous times in his book.

 

[Zweistein]

Hamilton mentions BB numerous times in his book.

Can you give me page numbers? I would be curious to read what it says because Hamilton won't even have had a drivers license when she retired.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Beryl is held in massive affection here in the uk by most everyone old enough to know of her myself included. My x wife won championship medals against her when she was in the twilight of her remarkable career.
She was a very straight talking women with a determination to win that even caused big friction with her own daughter Denise.
She really was a one off who never came close to getting the kind of rewards her incredible long career deserved... different times.
Her training and preparation were " old school" in the extreme..miles, miles and more miles.
To the question did she ever dope....in the context of what might be viewed as doping at the time I think its incredibly unlikely she knowingly would have.
Sadly we can never rule out the possibility but given she,s no longer with us and there's simply no credible evidence whatsoever I,d like to think most of us can remember Beryl as simply the greatest , in the context of her period, female cyclist there ever was.
Many of you might enjoy this recent Radio Play on her story featuring both her husband Charlie and daughter Denise. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nxzcd

And here is a picture of the great women stood between former World Road Champion, Mandy Jones ( in the Falcon top) and my X wife, Barbra Collins:

 

[will10]

Can you give me page numbers? I would be curious to read what it says because Hamilton won't even have had a drivers license when she retired.

Are you trying to tell me that the acronym BB in Hamilton's book refers to someone or something other than Beryl Burton?

 

[Darryl Webster]

Are you trying to tell me that the acronym BB in Hamilton's book refers to someone or something other than Beryl Burton?

Havnt read Hamilton`s book Will but Its hard to imagine "BB" refers to Beryl...have you got any context to the mention of a BB that might help identify who he,s referring to?

 

[ebandit]

blood

i only read blood bags

but i have no photographic memory

 

[andy1234]

Can you give me page numbers? I would be curious to read what it says because Hamilton won't even have had a drivers license when she retired.

Its just after the section where he talks about his life as a Beryls manicurist.

Jeeez,....its a joke!

BB........blood bags.....gedditt?

 

[will10]

I foolishly assumed that a bunch of Clinic regulars would see the humour in the BB acronym in the opening posts of this thread.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Its just after the section where he talks about his life as a Beryls manicurist.

Jeeez,....its a joke!

BB........blood bags.....gedditt?[/QUO

... I did wonder if that comment was a bit of sarcasm ..

 

[jamiephillips]

I think Beryl said once that she'd rather have a cup of tea! (than dope)

 

[jamiephillips]

Its just after the section where he talks about his life as a Beryls manicurist.

Jeeez,....its a joke!

BB........blood bags.....gedditt?[/QUO

... I did wonder if that comment was a bit of sarcasm ..

BB means only one thing in British cycling!!

 

[jamiephillips]

Having said that I'm sure that amphetamines were widely available in Britain in the 1960's!!

 

[JimmyFingers]

Any 'medicine' being taken by riders in the 50s couldn't be described as doping given the context of the era and also the fact drugs like amphetamine weren't illegal.

Coca Cola used to contain coaine #jussayin'

 

[Darryl Webster]

If you listen to the link I posted the subject of doping gets a mention..its very clear that Beryl and Charlie were very against it and suspect of some her opponents in world competition. Its a very enjoyable play and , as I mentioned, has Charlie and Denise adding there own voices and comments on Beryl, as rider, wife and mother.

 

[silverrocket]

Its just after the section where he talks about his life as a Beryls manicurist.

Jeeez,....its a joke!

BB........blood bags.....gedditt?

NOW that line about BB being taped to the hotel room wall while blood dripped into Hamilton's arm makes more sense.

I had previously thought that because there was no way Beryl Burton could be held up on a wall using just tape, Hamilton had lost all credibility.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Beryl is held in massive affection here in the uk by most everyone old enough to know of her myself included. My x wife won championship medals against her when she was in the twilight of her remarkable career.
She was a very straight talking women with a determination to win that even caused big friction with her own daughter Denise.
She really was a one off who never came close to getting the kind of rewards her incredible long career deserved... different times.
Her training and preparation were " old school" in the extreme..miles, miles and more miles.
To the question did she ever dope....in the context of what might be viewed as doping at the time I think its incredibly unlikely she knowingly would have.
Sadly we can never rule out the possibility but given she,s no longer with us and there's simply no credible evidence whatsoever I,d like to think most of us can remember Beryl as simply the greatest , in the context of her period, female cyclist there ever was.
Many of you might enjoy this recent Radio Play on her story featuring both her husband Charlie and daughter Denise. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nxzcd

And here is a picture of the great women stood between former World Road Champion, Mandy Jones ( in the Falcon top) and my X wife, Barbra Collins:

Great post , I had to pleasure to see Beryl race a few times towards the end of her career and spent many a mile listening to older club mates telling story's about how good she was .

 

[Hawkwood]

Back in the 60s Beryl rode the national 12 hour championship, she beat all the men and set a new women's record that was at the time further than the men's!

 

[Bimbadeen]

Beryl Burton and doping

NEVER on your life,

I raced with Beryl late 50's and early 60's , went on overseas trips with her , slept in the same room as her and never ever would she have considered dope, as someone has said , out doing more miles yes but dope no ways.
I have spoken today to three other ladies who raced with BB and they also say NEVER .

Beryl was just superior to most of the other riders , she trained hard and had a winners mentality thru and thru. I have seen this same attitude in my sons riding .

Beryl was nervous in a bunch which is often why she would be near the back and then make a massive effort to break away .

I remember a race in Belgium and being told off by Beryl for being negative because I said who I thought would win the race (and she did).

There were one or two suspect Continentals at that time who were often "hyper" before and during the race who were definitely suspect , but no tests in those days.

Ann Sturgess, who contacted Ann Illingworth, Jean Dunn and Val Rushworth all W/C riders

 

[hondated]

removed by op

NEVER on your life,

I raced with Beryl late 50's and early 60's , went on overseas trips with her , slept in the same room as her and never ever would she have considered dope, as someone has said , out doing more miles yes but dope no ways.
I have spoken today to three other ladies who raced with BB and they also say NEVER .

Beryl was just superior to most of the other riders , she trained hard and had a winners mentality thru and thru. I have seen this same attitude in my sons riding .

Beryl was nervous in a bunch which is often why she would be near the back and then make a massive effort to break away .

I remember a race in Belgium and being told off by Beryl for being negative because I said who I thought would win the race (and she did).

There were one or two suspect Continentals at that time who were often "hyper" before and during the race who were definitely suspect , but no tests in those days.

Ann Sturgess, who contacted Ann Illingworth, Jean Dunn and Val Rushworth all W/C riders

 

[happychappy]

Not saying this is the case here but.. isn't there a condition where the person in question has female genitalia on the "outside" but still has male genitals inside - so male physiology and all its advantages but able to compete as a woman?
Like I say I'm not suggesting Beryl Burton was this way, I'm just wondering if it really is an actual condition and could someone with that condition get away with it? I'm thinking of the Olympic female athletes that look more manly than Jason Statham.