Best All-Rounder Rider Today?

[El Pistolero]

did you see the Mendrisio worlds?

That were hills. Cancellara can do everything except real mountains. Ergo he's a better all-rounder than most on this poll's list.

He should race the hilly classics though, time is running out, and he won't win them in his first year trying. Maybe drop Roubaix in favor of Lombardia and Liège like Phil does.

 

[theyoungest]

That were hills. Cancellara can do everything except real mountains. Ergo he's a better all-rounder than most on this poll's list.

He should race the hilly classics though, time is running out, and he won't win them in his first year trying. Maybe drop Roubaix in favor of Lombardia and Liège like Phil does.

Cancellara certainly belongs on this list, you're right about that.

I mean, Leipheimer, for realz I'd sooner put Boom and Stybar on the list.

 

[The Hitch]

Cancellara certainly belongs on this list, you're right about that.

I mean, Leipheimer, for realz I'd sooner put Boom and Stybar on the list.

Umm Boom and Stybar havent won GTs or monuments so they can't be on the list.

 

[maltiv]

Cancellara certainly belongs on this list, you're right about that.

I mean, Leipheimer, for realz I'd sooner put Boom and Stybar on the list.

Stybar has actually shown quite impressive abilities in both sprints, hills and mountains this season, could definitely develop into a very fine all-rounder if he stops focusing on CX. As for Boom...well he can barely get over a hill, least of all a mountain, so definitely not

 

[cineteq]

did you see the Mendrisio worlds?

Yes, did you watch LBL?

 

[maltiv]

Yes, did you watch LBL?

Cancellara didn't ever start there

 

[cineteq]

Cancellara didn't ever start there

Exactly my point. Hitch says he can climb. So all you need to look is at the races he didn't do. common denominator: mountain finishes.
Make no mistake, I love Fabian as a rider, he's very skillful and exciting to watch, but he lacks a key skill = not a climber. Thus, he's not an all-rounder.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Exactly my point. Hitch says he can climb. So all you need to look is at the races he didn't do. common denominator: mountain finishes.
Make no mistake, I love Fabian as a rider, he's very skillful and exciting to watch, but he lacks a key skill = not a climber. Thus, he's not an all-rounder.

Contador lacks a key skill = not a sprinter. Thus, he's not an all-rounder.

If given the right kind of climb and parcours, and motivated and in form, Cancellara most definitely can climb. Not like the likes of Evans or Valverde, but not Cavendish either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7pQ9XMUlj4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CR2dpLUuH4

 

[The Hitch]

Exactly my point.

What? He didnt do LBL ergo he can't climb.

Rujano has never done LBL. Hell hes never even done the Tour.

I guess he can't climb either

So all you need to look is at the races he didn't do. common denominator: mountain finishes.

LBL is not "mountain finishes"

 

[Captain_Cavman]

If we ranked each rider based on say 7 skills, we could figure this out better.


...Cobbles = EBH>PG>CE>AV>VN>TM>MS>BW>AC>SS...

Forgive my ignorance but have AV and CE shown any ability in the cobbled classics?

Contador and Wiggins did OK in the Roubaix stage of the Tour a couple of years ago while Tony Martin took out 75% of the field.

Have VN or MS done anything either?

 

[The Hitch]

Forgive my ignorance but have AV and CE shown any ability in the cobbled classics?

Contador and Wiggins did OK in the Roubaix stage of the Tour a couple of years ago while Tony Martin took out 75% of the field.

Have VN or MS done anything either?

Cadel did well, he held on to the lead group but then so did Andy and most of the others were involved in a crash so its difficult to judge.

This shows one of the big flaws in this method because if instead of Wiggins Sanchez and Vino you use Geraint Thomas, Allesandro Ballan, David Millar, for example, then Cancellara would finish ahead of Evans or Valverde or whoever you are comparing him to.

 

[roundabout]

It's not the same as cobbles but Scarponi was by far the best on the 2010 mud slog in the Giro.

 

[maltiv]

Forgive my ignorance but have AV and CE shown any ability in the cobbled classics?

Contador and Wiggins did OK in the Roubaix stage of the Tour a couple of years ago while Tony Martin took out 75% of the field.

Have VN or MS done anything either?

Not to mention that Wiggins has been top 25 in P-R which should put him way higher up on that list.

 

[cineteq]

Contador lacks a key skill = not a sprinter. Thus, he's not an all-rounder.

How sprinting is a key skill for a GC rider? Has Contador been prevented from winning a GT because he can't sprint? He might not be a all-rounder in your book, but he has the two key skills that matter the most.

PS: Has Cancellara been prevented from winning a monument because he can't climb? Yes.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

How sprinting is a key skill for a GC rider? Has Contador been prevented from winning a GT because he can't sprint? He might not be a all-rounder in your book, but he has the two key skills that matter the most.

PS: Has Cancellara been prevented from winning a monument because he can't climb? Yes.

Has Contador been prevented from winning a monument because he can't ride on cobbles or sprint? Yes.

Sprinting may not be a key skill for a GC rider, but it IS a key skill for being considered an all rounder.

Those two key skills only matter the most if you're talking specifically about stage racing. But stage races (and especially GTs, which only number 3) do not account for the entire racing calendar, and Contador's inability to sprint or ride on cobbles has lost him many a one-day race that other riders, who cannot win a GT but nevertheless have all the requisite skills to be considered all-rounders, can win.

Realistically, your original criteria, that an all-rounder must be able to win GTs as well as Classics, is far too limiting, because it unfairly weights skills as so few riders are able to contend for GTs. An all-rounder is so called because he has all skills. If you used shorter but difficult or prestigious stage races, then it would be less clearly biased. That Contador, a man entirely lacking in some skills and that hasn't even attempted a whole subsection of races, can be one of your top picks for best all-rounder, shows that the criteria for all-rounder that you set needs some tweaking. Sylvain Chavanel can compete at the Ronde and to a slightly lesser extent at Roubaix, in hilly Classics, has podiumed Paris-Nice, won very lumpy Grand Tour stages, can time trial, is a more than decent descender (see Paris-Nice '09, when he catches Schleck & Voigt then carries them to Contador, Sánchez & Colóm)... yet he can't be considered an all-rounder and Alberto Contador can?

 

[The Hitch]

How sprinting is a key skill for a GC rider?

You seem to have the terms "All Rounder" and "GC rider" confused.

 

[cineteq]

You seem to have the terms "All Rounder" and "GC rider" confused.

Not really, see the first post of this thread as reference.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Not really, see the first post of this thread as reference.

Clearly you have, otherwise your definition of "All rounder" wouldn't be clearly overlapping so greatly with "GC rider".

Contador is the best GT rider out there.

He is lacking almost entirely in a few skills in cycling.

These prevent him from being a true all rounder, because those skills should not be lacking.

However, those skills are mostly irrelevant to his aim of winning GTs, hence he does not improve them as there is no need.

This enables him to maintain his position as the best GT rider out there, but prevents him being an all-rounder.

 

[cineteq]

Realistically, your original criteria, that an all-rounder must be able to win GTs as well as Classics, is far too limiting, because it unfairly weights skills as so few riders are able to contend for GTs. An all-rounder is so called because he has all skills.

My criteria is rather specific. In fact, no rider really meets the requirements to be honest. If we use your criteria who would be considered the best all rounder? To me, whichever criteria we use needs to be associated with the rider being successful, i.e. winning important races (classics, stage races, GTs, etc.) Thus, using your criteria + success, I see no better example than Phil Gilbert.

 

[c&cfan]

My criteria is rather specific. In fact, no rider really meets the requirements to be honest. If we use your criteria who would be considered the best all rounder? To me, whichever criteria we use needs to be associated with the rider being successful, i.e. winning important races (classics, stage races, GTs, etc.) Thus, using your criteria + success, I see no better example than Phil Gilbert.

lol what about valverde? better tter, better climber, better sprinter??

 

[cineteq]

lol what about valverde? better tter, better climber, better sprinter??

Valverde is not racing, just a reminder LOL

 

[gustienordic]

Valverde is not the best in the world at any one thing, yet he can sprint, climb, accelerate, TT, etc consistently. Contador can beat him in a GT, but Valverde can beat Contador is just about anything else, thus he is a great all-rounder.

 

[The Hitch]

Not really, see the first post of this thread as reference.

Your can't just make up the definition of all rounder as you go along.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

How can we vote for Valverde when he hasn't raced in a long time and we don't know what his current level is.

This.

I vote Evans, Canc, or Gilbert.

 

[gustienordic]

This.

I vote Evans, Canc, or Gilbert.

If you include Canc, I think you have to include Sylvain Chavenal, because he is pretty good at just about everything.