Best Climber (active)

[The Hitch]

lol the dutch mafia.

Gesink is a good climber but he still needs to improve to be above guys like samu and menchov. and those aren't even in my top climber's list.

at this tour he was always struggling. i do admire him cus he has an amazing capacity to suffer and even tho he seems struggling he still was able to cut his losses. but a top climber doesn't struggle all GT long. he attacks and tries to gain time, doesn't try not to lose it.

thats why i think gesink still has to improve a bit before being a top climber.

oh and please don't say he wasn't in top form at le tour. thats like saying if he was he would be up there with contador and baby shleck.

anyway

*waits for the dutch mobe to hire a professional killer*

p.s. i voted for contador just in case you are wondering. and i do rate basso, ricco, shleck and anton above samu and menchov

This is a hundred times worse than what i wrote about Gesink (that Menchov is better )

I will be very disapointed in Timmy Loves Rabo if he doesnt use a lot of threats, sarcasm and hate in his reply to this.

 

[Altitude]

How do you know?

Just a little speculation, mostly based on the fact that I think many consider Gesink to be a pure climber, while considering Menchov and Sanchez to be more all around riders who can climb very well. Anyhow I only had 10 slots to use-- Sanchez would have been next on the list.

 

[Parrulo]

This is a hundred times worse than what i wrote about Gesink (that Menchov is better )

I will be very disapointed in Timmy Loves Rabo if he doesnt use a lot of threats, sarcasm and hate in his reply to this.

hehe

well i do consider gesink more talented when it comes to climbing then menchov. but like i said, he still needs to improve and he has time for it cus he is still young.

also the hitch: i see what you did there saying my post is worse then yours leaving you free while making me the number target on the dutch mafia "to kill" list

 

[La Pandera]

I voted Contador. As mentioned by many before me, he's displayed his superiority for years.

The 10 seconds he lost to Andy Schleck is attributed to Contador foolishly answering every attack before Andy's, leaving him with nothing left, not to Andy's superiority. Andy only won the stage because Sammie Sanchez cramped in the final sprint.

On the Tourmalet the onus was on Andy to take time out of Contador and drop him, which he couldn't do no matter how hard he tried. Contador displayed his versatility by taking time out of Andy on the Mende stage.

Add to that Contador never seemed to be in top form at the Tour with the exception of the Arenberg stage where it could be argued that he expended precious energy in the final 10k riding on a warped rear wheel. How many times have we heard the mistake Valverde would make in going for stage wins early in the Tour and thus burning matches he would need later? Surprisingly, not once did I hear mention of this being a possible reason for the less than dominant performance by Contador.

Andy Schleck gets the nod over Basso due to Basso's diesel climbing method, not that it isn't effective but IMO he could never create a gap on AS nor could he ride him off of his wheel. AS showed his worth on the Zoncolon in the 2007 Giro, outclimbing Ricco, Diluca with only the great Gilberto Simoni and Leonardo Piepoli finishing ahead of him. It could be argued that with AS being so young at the time that he was riding conservatively, unsure of exactly what he was capable of at the time, and fearful of going into the red.

In the 3rd slot I'm undecided between Valverde, Purito, Anton, Basso and Ricco, with honourable mentions going to Domenico Pozzovivo (sp), Juan Mauricio Soler, Denis Menchov, Sammy Sanchez, Frank Schleck, Robert Gesink and Ezequiel Mosquera.

 

[The Hitch]

also the hitch: i see what you did there saying my post is worse then yours leaving you free while making me the number target on the dutch mafia "to kill" list

Not going to happen my friend. Im a founding member . Like Meyer Lansky, an outsider, but instrumental in the set up

 

[jsem94]

Rujano? Henao?

 

[insideout leadout]

Best climber?....with everyone eating the same steaks and bananas....Andy Schleck.

 

[c&cfan]

why andy? contador is two years older and has a palmares that andy can only dream about (even if he had more 20 years at his peak. do not forget that contador does more than the tour. andy lives only for the tour (in palmares) still.. 3-0)

(dont you even dare to talk about the clen because it didn't made difference.)

people: andy was only on podium because of CANCELLARA!! that's right. he finished one minut and a half in front of menchov and sanchez (i guess). how many time stage 3 gave to him on those (and contador with a f+cked wheel) guys? not to mention that the peloton waited when they shoudnt.

in fact, i believe that basso»shleck. contador»all. proof?see the results please.. (and please, look at the wattage of 2009 contador. no one in history could've beated him)

 

[luckyboy]

People saying Pozzovivo - is he really up there with these guys? I confess the last I remember of him was the 08 Giro, but I'm not sure.

I voted Contador.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

hehe

well i do consider gesink more talented when it comes to climbing then menchov. but like i said, he still needs to improve and he has time for it cus he is still young.

also the hitch: i see what you did there saying my post is worse then yours leaving you free while making me the number target on the dutch mafia "to kill" list

I do disagree with you that Gesink was in top form in the Tour. Many disagree with that, I can tell you, straight from the cycling world itself

They felt at Rabobank that Gesink was a bit over his peak after 2 weeks in the Tour. The fall at the beginning of the Tour also took a lot more energy out of him so he was already pretty wrecked before the climbing even began.
His ability to suffer made him limit his losses, but that's not his usual style.
You can see this when he's good, like in Suisse or later in the season in Canada, and last year in the Vuelta, he'll always try to attack or ride at the front. Even when later on he doesn't win.
When he's not good he'll only try to hang in the back and ride his own pace as to not follow too long and blow up. When he's not in front before a climb start that for me is a sign Gesink is not 100%. In all races he is good in he starts a climb in the first 5 of the peloton...
In the TDF he was always hanging in the back and chosing his own pace and only tried an acceleration when absolutely nothing happened.

 

[usedtobefast]

i vote Sylvester Smyd. when he goes to the front for his team, he is brutal.
he whittles down the field in a hurry. and he is like the Energizer Bunny. day after day.

 

[EmpressJo]

Baby Schleck for me. Although his Vuelta was no credit to him.

p.s. Hitch, Andy didn't only try it on the Madeleine. There was this chaingate incident remember? He had a pretty damn big gap when his chain came off and AC didn't react directly so I'm sure he was in trouble at that moment.

+1. If only there was no Chaingate; how I would have loved to have seen what happened next. That was a game-changer - but I guess we better not go there again. No use going through coulda woulda shoulda.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

This is a hundred times worse than what i wrote about Gesink (that Menchov is better )

I will be very disapointed in Timmy Loves Rabo if he doesnt use a lot of threats, sarcasm and hate in his reply to this.

yeah cause I threatened you (and hate?) Wow someone disagrees with your opinion and throws in a little sarcastic comment or two and you can't handle it. Sorry for belittling you and suggesting you only watched the past few months, but your posts just gave me that perception.

--
and Dt pretty much summed up the not in form issue. And yeah that pretty much can relate to Parrulo entire post.

Anyone who thinks gesink was at his best at the tour, probably only watches the tour.

 

[Ruxen1989]

why andy? contador is two years older and has a palmares that andy can only dream about (even if he had more 20 years at his peak. do not forget that contador does more than the tour. andy lives only for the tour (in palmares) still.. 3-0)

Contador does a more than the tour? Contador has this year competed 48 days (21 in the tour) Because of the clen positive he hasn't competed after the tour.
http://sporten-dyn.tv2.dk/cykling/article.php/id-33053258:contador-beskyldes-for-dovenskab.html
Andy Schleck has competed (only races he has finished listed here, he started more races than this) 75 days. 14 of these after the tour. so with and before the tour he has competed at least 61 days bare in mind that Schleck started the season injured and couldn't compete.
http://www.team-saxobank.com/person_profiles.asp?p_id=70

Sure I can tell that Contador does a lot more than baby Schleck

That Schleck doesn't focus on winning in much more than the tour and the spring classics gives the chance to other riders on the team to try something. Like this year where Andy's job in tour de suisse was to help Cancellara up the climbs. And last year the Schlecks were in the Vuelta to help Fuglsang give it a go. It is a good way to pay back some of the work they do for them in the tour.

In terms of climbing skills I think that both Schlecks and Contador are pretty equal. Contador is better on the short steep climbs and Frank and Andy are better in the long tough climbs. And then I think Nibali and Basso are the next in line.

 

[Climbing]

Basso 2006 would have smiled down all those other guys!!!
But I agree with what many others have said.
Contador and Andy are the strongest climbers, maybe Basso at Giro (a fantastic win in one of the hardest stage of the year) this year was not far away from them.
But ofc Contador seems a clear first to me.

 

[Kwibus]

Baby Schleck for me. Although his Vuelta was no credit to him.



+1. If only there was no Chaingate; how I would have loved to have seen what happened next. That was a game-changer - but I guess we better not go there again. No use going through coulda woulda shoulda.

'What if' is pointless, but ofcourse that would've made the Tour more interesting. What was more interesting though is that A Schleck reduced the gap to AC on the uphill part which means that AS went faster then AC.

And since I'm dutch I'd like to add some Gesink bias . I'm 100% convinced that Gesink wasn't at this best in the TdF and I'm pretty sure he is a better climber then Menchov. Gesink needs to make sure to be at his best next TdF so we can say to The Hitch " Told you so!"

 

[staubsauger]

for me it's emanuele sella. his giro performance in 08 was simply incredible. pure heroic. without his 12min lost on that flat stage he would have destroy them all in the mountains to win il maglia rosa.

but the question you have to ask to yourself is just. was sella only that good because he was totally overloaded that year, or did we see how strong he really is as he had the same doping-options than the the big riders from the big teams throug matteo priamos connections in 08.as for me it's the second case in my opinion he is the strongest pure climber, but i could be totally wrong with that.

next year i'm very sure we would finally see that it's ricco so i vote for him now as he definatly was the stronger climber than contador in 2008.^^

 

[indurain666]

Contador has a wicked acceleration, but hes nothing special on longer, steady grades (by nothing special I mean not top 5 in the world).

So a 1700 VAM is nothing special for you? Who are in the top 5 that you talk about? Cause as far as I am concerned, not too many guys other than A schleck and Contador can hit these numbers

 

[indurain666]

There is a very good discussion somewhere with actual facts and calculations showing the numbers (i.e. wattage, VAM) these guys have been hitting throughout the season. Regardless of who your favorite rider is or how much you hate Contador, IIRC, Andy Schleck and Contador hit the highest VAMs at this year's tour, although Contador was not climbing as well as last year.

 

[Arnout]

for me it's emanuele sella. his giro performance in 08 was simply incredible. pure heroic. without his 12min lost on that flat stage he would have destroy them all in the mountains to win il maglia rosa.

but the question you have to ask to yourself is just. was sella only that good because he was totally overloaded that year, or did we see how strong he really is as he had the same doping-options than the the big riders from the big teams throug matteo priamos connections in 08.as for me it's the second case in my opinion he is the strongest pure climber, but i could be totally wrong with that.

next year i'm very sure we would finally see that it's ricco so i vote for him now as he definatly was the stronger climber than contador in 2008.^^

First case as it was the first case of CERA. When he only joined in after a while, we would've seen a decrease in his performance the months/year before. Didn't happen. On of the reasons I think the sport is cleaner than many here claim. Doping left is often only small quantities, big leaps are nearly always discovered.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

for me it's emanuele sella. his giro performance in 08 was simply incredible. pure heroic. without his 12min lost on that flat stage he would have destroy them all in the mountains to win il maglia rosa.

but the question you have to ask to yourself is just. was sella only that good because he was totally overloaded that year, or did we see how strong he really is as he had the same doping-options than the the big riders from the big teams throug matteo priamos connections in 08.as for me it's the second case in my opinion he is the strongest pure climber, but i could be totally wrong with that.

next year i'm very sure we would finally see that it's ricco so i vote for him now as he definatly was the stronger climber than contador in 2008.^^

Sella is a very strong pure climber, as shown this year in races like Austria (where Riccò outclimbed him but nobody else), but his results this year haven't been as strong as many others. His 2008 Giro was loaded to the eyeballs, as he himself freely admits. I have no idea if he was cleaner or relatively clean compared to other contenders previously, but he's always been a good climber, with a 10th and 12th in the Giro acquired mostly with the Tiralongo method of going your own pace and being the first man home after the heads of state. He also had a win from a breakaway back in 2004, and always showed in the mountains.

However, in the Italian domestic scene I would rate Riccò, Niemiec and Pozzovivo as all being better than the modern Sella, with Pozzovivo the best. Sella these days is a mountain goat and breakaway artist, more like a David Moncoutié than the José Manuel Fuente he decided to briefly become.

 

[kurtinsc]

I'll go with Andy... though to be honest Andy and Contador are pretty even at the moment in my book.

The difference is Contador was able to climb at that level much more often during the season... while Andy only did so at the Tour.

 

[Parrulo]

I do disagree with you that Gesink was in top form in the Tour. Many disagree with that, I can tell you, straight from the cycling world itself

They felt at Rabobank that Gesink was a bit over his peak after 2 weeks in the Tour. The fall at the beginning of the Tour also took a lot more energy out of him so he was already pretty wrecked before the climbing even began.
His ability to suffer made him limit his losses, but that's not his usual style.
You can see this when he's good, like in Suisse or later in the season in Canada, and last year in the Vuelta, he'll always try to attack or ride at the front. Even when later on he doesn't win.
When he's not good he'll only try to hang in the back and ride his own pace as to not follow too long and blow up. When he's not in front before a climb start that for me is a sign Gesink is not 100%. In all races he is good in he starts a climb in the first 5 of the peloton...
In the TDF he was always hanging in the back and chosing his own pace and only tried an acceleration when absolutely nothing happened.

i have seen the vuelta last year. he did well attacking and everything but not on a level good enough to be compared to contador, shleck, basso and others. And inb4 the whole hole in the knee story thats like saying anton would have have beaten nibali if he hadn't crashed out. is just "would"

sorry i know you love the guy and i like him too(as i have mentioned before) but its just my opinion.

 

[staubsauger]

ääähm well...i've seen that vuelta and gesink was definatly much stronger in the mountains than basso was. and in my opinion basso wasn't that stronger in this years giro as he have been in that vuelta as many people are saying now (he was much stronger in both gt's than in last years giro no doubt). basso just didn't have as good challengers in this years giro - except from scarponi - as he had in that vuelta (franco/danilo out, mentsjov not there, ricco not invited, evans&vino wasn't in top form any more, sastre with no form, simoni was nothing).

gesink just seems to be too stupid to ride a good gt. his collapse in last years tour/vuelta. and this year his gt goals were totally totally wrong. after the vuelta he should have ridden the giro on eye-level with basso with his diesel style and would have been able to beat him. but instead he choose to ride the tdf as leutnant for mentsjov ignoring the fact that his tt skills aren't good enough to podium there AND waste power in the tds while not winning it because of a unbelievable desastrous tt. that's a little beauty patch in a pretty season for him as there would have been more possible.

what i want to say is: gesink as a climber is closer to basso as many peolpe here think, but at least none of them is the best climber of our generation. maybe robot-basso 2006 was, but than were are back at my super-cera-sella 2008 as well. that's just not representative.

at least it's contador or ricco. if the the giro 08 was representative than ricco was the better climber there, but contador the better gt rider. but contador wasn't at 100% there, so we will never know. it would have been fantastic to see them battle it out in next years giro, especially as ricco improved his tt this season.

andy schleck is definatly NOT the strongest climber. he hasen't got the uphill-kick of armstrong, contador, ricco, di luca, samu sanchez to jump away and really distance his rivals or the power to climb&bite on steep climbs as simoni, basso, heras. he could win lbl or could follow an attack of another rider like contador. but i can't see him force an attack that make him flying away from his contrahents like armstrong did with ullrich, ricco did with contador in the giro, contador did with schleck and armstrong in 2009 tour or cunego did with popovych and simoni in 2004. samu sanchez f.e has that kick, so i'm going to predict that in tdf 2011 he will distance schleck in the right moment, because of that skills like di luca did in 2007.

 

[ferryman]

Ba ba Schleck for me. I think both he and Contador realised that he had moved up a level in this year's TDF. It's a pity AC won't be there next year to disprove this theory