Best Sprinter ever

[Franklin]

Nope. Just based on watching. Gut feeling is Abdou's in his prime was faster than Cav.

Opinion, but I'd think Abdu's style isn't very efficient and thus wouldn't be my first candidate for highest speed. Especially considering a complete straight lead out battle he was often beaten, whereas wild sprints were his forte. I'd say the former instances reach higher speeds.

My bet's for highest speeds would be the specialists of the "train sprints", Alejet, Cippo and Cav*.

* Yeah he's good with or without, but give him a train and he's unstoppable in the current peloton.

 

[hrotha]

I think Abdou lost to Cipo more often than not, although back in the early 90s there wasn't really a sprinter who routinely trashed his competitors for years. There were many sprinters at a similar level, with Cipo a little bit above the rest IMO.

 

[ebandit]

ok?

difficult question but great debate................i voted maertens because i think he was the best cyclist

cav is rapidly becoming the best sprinter

but are we in different times? so much effort is put into sprint trains that generally the winner is a good wheel ahead

how i recall with 'misty eyed wonder' blanket finishes where 4 riders were only separated by a photo finish picture

and a favourite quote........' cipo don't you get scared?.............to which cipo replied only when i drive my open top car fast.......my hair might get messed up'...................too cool!

i don't have much time for abdou........too much of a liabilty

Mark L

 

[Peccio89]

The best way to measure how good a sprinter is are GT stage wins, not jersey, in my opinion, because to win the jersey means also to be a good all around rider who can pass mountains.
Cav will easily surpass the 57 stages won by Cipo. However i would remark that Cipo rivals were much better than Cav's ones:
- Abdu
- Zabel
- Quaranta( it's seem ridicolous to name him among those legend but in a total flat parcours he was quite hard to beat)
- Robbie McEwen

And still he owned them all. Plus he wasn't allowed to race the Tour in his best years.

I think that Cav is better than Cipo because he can win with consistency even without a train, but the difference between the two is not that high.

 

[Echoes]

I don't know how to prove it one way or another, but I'm pretty sure if you compared Bauge's bank-account with Cavendish's the answer would be "a whole ****ing lot".

Yes money ...

I don't care about "Sixes", I don't really care about the track at all, although I might watch it if I accidentally catch it on Eurosport.

There's more to cycling than just Bore de France or GT...

Are you aware you're in the "Professional Road Racing" forum here?

Track or road, cycling is cycling...

200km of wheelsucking before the sprint is the name of the game.

Speaks volume about how you see cycling. I call it theft ...

The worst thing is that people like you would call Evans or Pozzato wheelsuckers while there's no bigger wheelsucker in the peloton than Cavendish ...

Of course Cavendish probably doesn't win under the parameters you propose, but what the hell does that prove?

That he's not the best cycling sprinter at this moment.

It's refreshing to read about Patrick Sercu, a monster sprinter back in the day. However, Sercu (and Bauge) don't belong to the 'Professional Road Racing' category. I have watched cycling since 1975.

So you've watched cycling since 1975 and you don't even know that Sercu was a roadie? He was certainly as much a roadie as Freuler was.

This is Sercu outsprinting Thurau and Godefroot among others at Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne 1977. If that does not belong to this section where does that belong?

Sercu outsprinting Basso with a huge (!) margin at Sassari-Cagliari 1973. Is that not road racing?

Raas, more of a sprinter than Kelly ???

Lol @ Abdujaparov, I completely forgot who that man was. And Quaranta even worse. I mean. Is this all serious?

 

[Franklin]

Lol @ Abdujaparov, I completely forgot who that man was. And Quaranta even worse. I mean. Is this all serious?

If you are pushing Sercu as best road sprinter all time I'm also not sure how serious this is

 

[ultimobici]

The worst thing is that people like you would call Evans or Pozzato wheelsuckers while there's no bigger wheelsucker in the peloton than Cavendish

Suggests you know nothing of what a road sprinter does. Aside form the fact that any rider has to do the full distance, the sprinters have to hold their place in the bunch against others after their place in the train, all at 50, 60 or 70kmh. Watching yesterdays stage that was a steady 140km uphill drag until a 17km descent to the finale, I'd offer that Cavendish hardly had an armchair ride to the sprints at both Dobbiaco and Cortina. He was around the front of the bunch all the way until 189km in. Hardly that of a wheelsucker.

 

[Echoes]

If you are pushing Sercu as best road sprinter all time I'm also not sure how serious this is

You're discrediting yourself completely.

Aside form the fact that any rider has to do the full distance, the sprinters have to hold their place in the bunch against others after their place in the train, all at 50, 60 or 70kmh.

But compared to breakaway riders or chasing domestiques who are taking the wind for a much longer distance at the same speed, it's much more comfortable.

 

[ultimobici]

You're discrediting yourself completely.




But compared to breakaway riders or chasing domestiques who are taking the wind for a much longer distance at the same speed, it's much more comfortable.

More comfortable? Not really an appropriate term, IMO. Slightly less painful, slightly less uncomfortable would be more accurate. A sprinter in Cavendish's position has to hold their position at the front of affairs all stage long. While it may require less effort than a rider breaking away, it still is far from sitting in for the ride.

 

[Old&slow]

While it is hard to compare sprinters form different eras as so much has changed certainly Cavendish is the best sprinter of this era and the best overall cyclist of the last 35 years.

Sprinting takes much more skill than GC riding or even classic riding. Sprinting requires better bike handling, tactics, daring, awareness, strategy, teamwork and guts than GC riding. GC rding mainly requires good genes. Which is why many cycling fans find sprint stages so much more exciting than the mundane and rather boring and tedious uphill stages.

Arguably Cavendish is the 2nd greatest cyclist of all time just behind Merckx.

 

[Afrank]

While it is hard to compare sprinters form different eras as so much has changed certainly Cavendish is the best sprinter of this era and the best overall cyclist of the last 35 years.

Sprinting takes much more skill than GC riding or even classic riding. Sprinting requires better bike handling, tactics, daring, awareness, strategy, teamwork and guts than GC riding. GC rding mainly requires good genes. Which is why many cycling fans find sprint stages so much more exciting than the mundane and rather boring and tedious uphill stages.

Arguably Cavendish is the 2nd greatest cyclist of all time just behind Merckx.

No, just no. Winning sprints doesn't even compare to winning GT's, classics, and many other races. There are many many cyclists with better palmares overall then Cav.

Edit: Just off the top of my head a few cyclists who are greater cyclists than Cav based on their palmares: Kelly, Contador, Hinault, Indurain, Coppi, De Vlaeminck, Bartali, Lemond, Cancellara, Boonen, Bettini, Anquetil, Binda, museeuw.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Edit, just off the top of my head, I think you just bit hard on troll bait.

 

[SeriousSam]

Hard to say. There are some truly delusional Cavendish fanboys.

 

[Swabian Lass]

Best? Probably Maertens, closely followed by Cavendish. However, by the time he retires Cavendish will probably be ahead.

Most entertaining? No question, Abdou.

Moat stylish (in a ridiculously entertaining fashion) has to be Cipo.

 

[Franklin]

You're discrediting yourself completely.

Dear Cycling grognard, what forum is this? The Track forum? The general forum? No... it's the Professional road racing forum.

I would think a bit about the word "road" before I start claiming people are discrediting themselves

Your argument would be a lot stronger for a Darrigade (who also attacke) or a Freddy Maertens. Sixes and Track sprints have no value in the discussion on the road forum.

 

[El Pistolero]

Dear Cycling grognard, what forum is this? The Track forum? The general forum? No... it's the Professional road racing forum.

I would think a bit about the word "road" before I start claiming people are discrediting themselves

Your argument would be a lot stronger for a Darrigade (who also attacke) or a Freddy Maertens. Sixes and Track sprints have no value in the discussion on the road forum.

Sercu has a better road palmares than any of Cav's rivals.

19 Grand Tour stages plus Green jersey in the Tour. Only rode the Tour twice.

 

[Franklin]

Sercu has a better road palmares than any of Cav's rivals.

19 Grand Tour stages plus Green jersey in the Tour. Only rode the Tour twice.

Current rivals? Yeah for sure. but the road palmares of Alejet, Cippo, Cav is bigger. I'm not saying they are greater cyclists, but road sprinters.. yes.

If his argument is they are to limited a Maertens (or a Boonen, Raas, Kelly)is a better example than Sercu if we look at the road (which is clear form the forum).

 

[spalco]

Yes money ...

Monetary compensation for pro athletes doesn't appear out of a vacuum, it comes from the attention people pay to their efforts and from how much the fans care.

And whether you like it or not, far more people pay attention to road sprinters and the Tour de France than track sprinters and six-day-races.

Track or road, cycling is cycling...

So ****ing what? Bauge has done nothing on the road, he's not a part of this discussion. Your comments are completely off-topic if I'm being charitable; if I wasn't there could be other things to say about them as well.

 

[El Pistolero]

Current rivals? Yeah for sure. but the road palmares of Alejet, Cippo, Cav is bigger. I'm not saying they are greater cyclists, but road sprinters.. yes.

If his argument is they are to limited a Maertens (or a Boonen, Raas, Kelly)is a better example than Sercu if we look at the road (which is clear form the forum).

Anachronisms...

Track was still very prestigious back then hence Sercu didn't feel the need to become only a road cyclist. Riding on the road and track went hand in hand for many. During the time of Alejet, Cippo and Cav things were different.

Cippo and Alejet have never been competitors for Cav. Sure Alejet still won some GT stages after 2008, but his career became very troubled after 2005.

 

[Franklin]

Anachronisms...

Track was still very prestigious back then hence Sercu didn't feel the need to become only a road cyclist. Riding on the road and track went hand in hand for many.

Anachronism or not does not matter. The discussion is about the best Road sprinter.

 

[El Pistolero]

Anachronism or not does not matter. The discussion is about the best Road sprinter.

No, it's about the best sprinter.

Pure sprinters are relatively recent anyway. It's no coincidence that the 3 sprinters with the most GT wins have all been from this century...

If you want to compare something with the past, then you have to look at the context of that past. Don't try to force your own context on it. Ranke knew it, and so should you. Bloss zeigen wie es eigentlich gewesen.

 

[Tonton]

"Bravo Merckx" - Leon Zitrone 1969

Echoes: it's too much of an honor to be quoted by you. Quickly: was Patrick Sercu a roadie? Yes. As much as Freuler? Yes. That was not my point and I'm not about to enter a ****ing contest here.

If the question is: 'who's the best sprinter ever?' and if we are on the Professional Road Racing forum, we could consider that the only objective measuring stick is the winning record of each professional ROAD racing cyclist. After all, isn't the best sprinter supposed to win some sprints?

This is where it gets tricky: Comparing different eras, different competition. Prime versus 'past his prime'. We could also look at train versus no train, uphill finish, bunch sprint versus small group and many other parameters (race distance, weather...). For each scenario, we would see different names pop up.

Solely looking at winning records, Cav, Cippo, Darrigade, and Eddy Merckx seem to hold an edge. Yep, Eddy Merckx. Not a pure sprinter? What is a pure sprinter? Does it matter? Eddy won a bunch of sprints and was brilliant on track (Echoes will agree ). The bottom line is: Eddy won a third of all the races he entered. I'd take the odds in a virtual sprint...

 

[spalco]

No, it's about the best sprinter.

Pure sprinters are relatively recent anyway. It's no coincidence that the 3 sprinters with the most GT wins have all been from this century...

If you want to compare something with the past, then you have to look at the context of that past. Don't try to force your own context on it. Ranke knew it, and so should you. Bloss zeigen wie es eigentlich gewesen.

That is not a bad point, but it makes the discussion even more complicated. How would you even start to compare a contemporary road sprinter to a 70s mixed track/road rider?

 

[Echoes]

And whether you like it or not, far more people pay attention to road sprinters and the Tour de France than track sprinters and six-day-races..

But I'm paying attention to everything about that sport and that's all that matters.

So ****ing what?

A sprinter is a rider who rides the fastest on a short distance, period. Whether on a track or on the road, as long as he's on a bike and there's no engine in it, it's all the same. There's no dichotomy between road and track.

Echoes: it's too much of an honor to be quoted by you. Quickly: was Patrick Sercu a roadie? Yes. As much as Freuler? Yes. That was not my point and I'm not about to enter a ****ing contest here.

If the question is: 'who's the best sprinter ever?' and if we are on the Professional Road Racing forum, we could consider that the only objective measuring stick is the winning record of each professional ROAD racing cyclist. After all, isn't the best sprinter supposed to win some sprints?

My pleasure.

But I insist. Patrick Sercu was not only the all-time greatest trackie, he was also a fearsome road sprinter ! Arguably the best of his era and, in my opinion, the G.A.T. Or perhaps my favourite, let's put it that way.

And my argument is simple, I'll have to repeat it:

Patrick Sercu has a winning head-to-head against ALL the best (road) sprinters of his era !

21-8 against Basso
16-7 against Van Linden
17-6 against De Vlaeminck
6-2 against Maertens

And this is his ROAD record !

My source is Patrick Sercu : portret van een puzzel by Rik Van Walleghem.

His ecclecticism, the fact he could handle the best track sprinters of his time (Maspes, Morelon,...), track Madison riders of his era (Post, Gilmore, Pijnen,...) AND the best ROAD sprinters of his era (Basso, Maertens...) makes him an all-time great sprinter if there is one.

And if I made the comparison with Freuler, it's because I'm sure you realize that Freuler is also more famours for his track than for his road record.

 

[jens_attacks]

beating basso in a sprint ...meh...