Best Sprinter ever

[Netserk]

Even as a vet Petacchi could still often beat Cav.

In his prime he would have pwned him big time.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Even as a vet Petacchi could still often beat Cav.

In his prime he would have pwned him big time.

Mods shouldn't troll.

http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?c=7&id=140768&CompareToId=140365

The 2 lists at the bottom are a slightly different length, and the one on the right does not justify 'often'.

 

[Netserk]

Al right change it to: 35+ years old Petacchi could beat a Cav in his prime several times.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Well, Petacchi must have been miles past his best in 2010 because Cav was sprinting 10% faster in Bordeaux - the way he came past him was embarassing.

 

[coinneach]

yeh....with a train that drops him at the finish and blocks Cav at the same time....you cannot be seriously suggesting he's a better sprinter than Cav?

Are the Mods not checked for brains as well as neutrality?

 

[Cookster15]

Well, Petacchi must have been miles past his best in 2010 because Cav was sprinting 10% faster in Bordeaux - the way he came past him was embarassing.

Pettachi in 2004 was at his peak - by 2010 he was well past it. His team would drag him into position and it was no contest in the final 200 metres.

I've been following Pro cycling since 1993. I voted Cipo but I think it's a toss up between him and Cav. Probably Cav will end up the best as he's only 28. Also special mention to Abdu - a scary competitor!

 

[RHRH19861986]

Petacchi, who was named by some here, is a bad example. Though being sprinter, who normally lose explosiveness at their mid 20ies, be had his breakthrough only aged 28 or 29.

I don´t have watt numbers, but I have the feeling Cavendish is on a level with Cipollini. Zabel actually never was on Cipo´s level, and lost 7 out of 10 sprints again him.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Safe bet Cavendish pushes the least watts of anyone on the list, other than possibly the token non sprinters. Not a massively relevant metric in isolation.

 

[Franklin]

Safe bet Cavendish pushes the least watts of anyone on the list, other than possibly the token non sprinters. Not a massively relevant metric in isolation.

I don't think you can say that unless he's much more aerodynamic. I know people claim he is, but we have no real data there. I think the wattages will be remarkably similar. And I certainly he beats a pure sprinter like Freire on watts.

Note that this is my opinion, not based on any number.

 

[Bushman]

Cavendish never beat elite sprinters when they were still at their peak.
Again it's not his fault but we don't really no how good Cavendish really is.

Then we can never know how good any rider is.

 

[Echoes]

Sercu was probably the reason for my interest in cycling, if I can point to one thing.

Lucky you. I would've loved to see this great pro in action. Van Walleghem's book "Patrick Sercu : Portret van een puzzel" is one of the best I've read about cycling.

That's impressive for sure, but not really a sprinters' achievements.

Next time you'll quote my whole post, otherwise it makes no sense.

Sercu won Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne in a sprint (after an attack on the Koppenberg), while the Manxman never attacks (wheelsucker) ...

+ an unbeatable record 88 Sixes, 1206 overall wins, 2 Sprint Worlds, 11 Euro Omnium title, 6 Euro Madison title and 1 Euro Derny title and one Union GP (Dortmund).

All this is sprint related !

Cavendish is not even the best sprinter of his era. Baugé is !

 

[GoodTimes]

cipo was the man of my childhood. such swagger. hard to see past the great man.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Cavendish never beat elite sprinters when they were still at their peak.

Greipel would be on this list without Cav.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I don't think you can say that unless he's much more aerodynamic. I know people claim he is, but we have no real data there. I think the wattages will be remarkably similar. And I certainly he beats a pure sprinter like Freire on watts.

Note that this is my opinion, not based on any number.

Do you never worry that you are discounting variables which are massively influential in the end result, just because you can't measure them, in favour of ones which you could measure, but don't actually have data for in any case?

I am happy to use the evidence of my eyes, and the height and weight of riders, to consider aerodynamics very likely a very big factor. It would be bizarre for a rider who weights 20% less to be achieving the same wattage, and accruing no aero benefit.

 

[spalco]

Next time you'll quote my whole post, otherwise it makes no sense.

Sercu won Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne in a sprint (after an attack on the Koppenberg), while the Manxman never attacks (wheelsucker) ...

+ an unbeatable record 88 Sixes, 1206 overall wins, 2 Sprint Worlds, 11 Euro Omnium title, 6 Euro Madison title and 1 Euro Derny title and one Union GP (Dortmund).

All this is sprint related !

Cavendish is not even the best sprinter of his era. Baugé is !

I quoted the parts of your comment that were relevant to the point I tried to make. Anyone who wanted to know the context just had to scroll up a little bit.

It's true that Cavendish doesn't attack, but although it would be cool if he did (or could), it doesn't really have much to do with the discussion, because - why "attack on the Koppenberg" if he can win the sprint anyway?

And we're talking about road cycling here, I don't know if Bauge has ever even sat on a geared bicycle. (eta: which, to be clear, is not intended to be a slight towards him or any other track riders, it is just not the topic here)

eta something different: I just saw this videoposted in the cycling facts thread, and it's sort of on-topic here. One thing that blows my mind here, is how Zabel was able to avoid crashing at ~3:17; at that speed, in the middle of the sprinting bunch, and still roll into the finish with his remaining speed. Amazing bike handling.

 

[Echoes]

You've singled out one comment of mine showing that Sercu was not a wheelsucker like Cavendish while all the rest of my post was about his sprinting skills and you conclude that I did not show how great a sprinter Sercu was. Dishonesty.

Patrick Sercu won 88 Sixes. Cav, how many?
Baugé is a faster sprinter than Cavendish is, period. Whether on a track, on the road, on ice or on a pedal-boat is irrelevant. There are doing the same sport, pushing on one pedal after the other.

Bring Baugé and Cavendish together in a sprint constest on a road, 200m or 500m, who wins ???

All Cavendish is good at is winning a sprint after having lollipopped his teammates or others for 200km but how much is that worth?

A bit like a keirin in which the pacemaker has to ride for 200km ...

 

[the asian]

Kelly shouldn't be on the list. He's an all rounder than a sprinter.

Fastest.

1. Abdou
2, Cav
3. Cipo

Best.

1. Maertens
2. Zabel
3. Freire

They were much more versatile than Abdou, Cav or Cipo.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Fastest.

1. Abdou
2, Cav
3. Cipo

Do you have figures for the above? I think Cav has said he has reached 78.0km
in the Giro.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Bring Baugé and Cavendish together in a sprint constest on a road, 200m or 500m, who wins ???

Over 200m I might go with Cav. Much quicker acceleration and Baugé takes an age to wind up his big gear.

 

[spalco]

All Cavendish is good at is winning a sprint after having lollipopped his teammates or others for 200km but how much is that worth?

I don't know how to prove it one way or another, but I'm pretty sure if you compared Bauge's bank-account with Cavendish's the answer would be "a whole ****ing lot".

I don't care about "Sixes", I don't really care about the track at all, although I might watch it if I accidentally catch it on Eurosport. Are you aware you're in the "Professional Road Racing" forum here? 200km of wheelsucking before the sprint is the name of the game. Of course Cavendish probably doesn't win under the parameters you propose, but what the hell does that prove?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

All Cavendish is good at is winning a sprint after having lollipopped his teammates or others for 200km but how much is that worth?

Well, I'd say Cav probably makes 10x what Bauge makes, so it seems that's worth quite a lot.

 

[the asian]

Do you have figures for the above? I think Cav has said he has reached 78.0km
in the Giro.

Nope. Just based on watching. Gut feeling is Abdou's in his prime was faster than Cav.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Nope. Just based on watching. Gut feeling is Abdou's in his prime was faster than Cav.

Ah ok. He might well have been. If Cav thinks badly of Ferrari for switching sprinting lines he would have imploded having to race the Tashkent Terror.

 

[Tonton]

Another Win For Cavendish

It's refreshing to read about Patrick Sercu, a monster sprinter back in the day. However, Sercu (and Bauge) don't belong to the 'Professional Road Racing' category. I have watched cycling since 1975. I don't think that I have seen anything like Cav. Maertens on a good year was close, Cippo (before the first mountain stage ) was close, but not as dominating. Adbou could rub elbows with the best of them. Zabel or Kelly were not in the same 'pure sprinter' league.

The only argument against Cav could be the level of competition that he's facing. Well, Greipel, Hushovd, Pettacchi, Freire, are no clowns. one may discuss if hey were at their prime or not...

Other names that could have been in the poll: Jan Raas, Urs Freuler.

I don't like him too much, but the dude is the best I have seen. I have to give my nod to the Cav.

1. Cav 2. Maertens 3. Abdou

 

[Franklin]

Do you never worry that you are discounting variables which are massively influential in the end result, just because you can't measure them, in favour of ones which you could measure, but don't actually have data for in any case?

No I don't worry about that as I don't make any claims... As I said it was my opinion.

I am happy to use the evidence of my eyes, and the height and weight of riders, to consider aerodynamics very likely a very big factor. It would be bizarre for a rider who weights 20% less to be achieving the same wattage, and accruing no aero benefit.

Perhaps you misunderstood... I certainly don't doubt he has a CX advantage, but I'm simply not completely convinced it's so incredibly big, especially if we consider the speeds he achieves (Yes, I think he reaches the highest speeds). I think you are not understanding my position... I certainly think he's the fastest (note I said I expect him to smash Cippo's record, it's just that he hasn't yet).

The problems I see are:

1. With all the churning, how much of a CX advantage is there? he keeps his haed low, but the other thread showed that he's not unique, in fact it's something they all do (but I'd say Cav goes lowest-stretched, by eyeball).
2. The weight factor seems of. AFAIK we look at about ±12% (70 vs 78kg) if we look at Cav vs. Cipo
3. Considering his weight loss is pretty targeted, I doubt a 12% weight loss translates in a 12% wattage loss in the sprint.
4. Lastly, considering Airresistance goes up logarithmically and I think he reaches the highest speeds I think he pushes top notch wattages.

This is not a contention for me. If Cav has a significant lower wattage I believe it, I'm simply not sure. I think he has worldclass wattage, but you might very well be right

One thing: I'm not going to bet either way