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Better TT : Ullrich vs. Contador ?

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marcantony said:
Who do you think would win a TT battle : Ullrich or Contador? Let's say two different courses : a 50k flat and a mountain one - Alpe D'huez for example.
My predictions :
Flat
1.Ullrich
2.Contador +40 sec

Mountain
1.Ullrich
2.Contador +15 sec
Although i must say that in a GC battle Conti will win with 3-4 minutes gap in final classification. Your predictions?

Good grief. How many aliases is that?
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Polish said:
Jan would win
Jan has the six fastest time up Alpe d'huez in TdF history - 38m23s

Jan DID win...he put 6 minutes into Alberto when they both TT'd
against one another....2005 stage 20:

I'll show the important ones. Your logic Polish, is all over the place. Keeping it consistent aren't you.

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 1.11.46 (46.4 km/h)
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 1.16
5 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 1.54
7 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 2.06
8 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 2.25
10 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 3.05
11 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 3.09
12 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 3.10
14 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 3.13
15 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 3.25
16 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 3.26
20 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo 4.03
26 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.55
30 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 5.18
48 Alberto Contador (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth 6.12

Look at the 3 above Contador. All world champions, one the premier ITT at the moment and only man who can match Contador day in, day out. Numbers 3 and 15, lieutenants to Contador in 2010. 1, 11 and 14, team mates from 2009, all of whom Contador can murder any day he chooses.

Nobody on that list races in that manner in 2010, five years down the track. I kept all the guys still racing. Is Lance still number one? Not a chance. Using riders places above Contador in 2005 to infer that in his current form, against Ullrich in his top form, would be smacked down by 6 minutes is silly. Contador would go close on a flat ITT, but lose time, only to make it back and then some in the hills. Remember the ITT hillclimbs. The one where Lance overtook Basso? Contador would do a similar thing to every current rider if they raced tomorrow. AC put 9 seconds on everyone in a 1km climb in the Prologue in Monaco. Make it all hill....wipeout.
 
Jan 31, 2010
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Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
Conta would beat ullrich in both, but Jan the man will always that much cooler :cool::D

I sincerely would never see AC win vs Ullrich or LA in their years. AC is a good TT'er, but why does everybody hail him after beating cancellera by 3 seconds on the last ITT.

1. The course was hilly.
2. You shouldn't compare with cancellera on the last TT. The 2005 results even make him look not that good at all. In 2005 cancellera lost so much time to LA and Ullrich while he wasn't a TT rookie that time. Well cancellera probably soft pedalled that stage, but he wouldn't beat LA and Ullrich on the last ITT anyway, no way imo. That being said I have to add that AC indeed is one of the best time trialists from his generation, which can't be looked around on.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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ErmOkk said:
I sincerely would never see AC win vs Ullrich or LA in their years. AC is a good TT'er, but why does everybody hail him after beating cancellera by 3 seconds on the last ITT.

1. The course was hilly.
2. You shouldn't compare with cancellera on the last TT. The 2005 results even make him look not that good at all. In 2005 cancellera lost so much time to LA and Ullrich while he wasn't a TT rookie that time. Well cancellera probably soft pedalled that stage, but he wouldn't beat LA and Ullrich on the last ITT anyway, no way imo. That being said I have to add that AC indeed is one of the best time trialists from his generation, which can't be looked around on.

It will be interesting to see how he goes on a course like 2007 Angouleme course or even the Bordeaux tt course for this year as i think it's dead flat.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Bike Boy said:
When does Ullrich anounce his comeback, in order to answer this question?

Pastries, doughnuts, lollies, beer....Jan has more incentive to stay retired. German media has had enough troubles with doping I can't see Jan thinking a comeback is a good idea.
 
Sep 2, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
Pastries, doughnuts, lollies, beer....Jan has more incentive to stay retired. German media has had enough troubles with doping I can't see Jan thinking a comeback is a good idea.

It was purely a rhetorical question. Of course I agree with you.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind if he did come back. AS and AC fighting for the GT, while LA and JU is fighting for the last podium spot (or maybe just trying not to embarrass themselves).
It would of course take a lot of the spot light away from those who deserve it more, but as long as they will deliver entertainment it would be fun (I can imaging getting a few laughs)
 
The problem with making such comparisons is that Ullrich was on form only a handful of times in his career. We hardly ever got to see him in top form, whereas Contador comes ready to race from the beginning of the year and has actually shown interest in taking advantage of his talent.

If anyone had said that Ullrich would never win another Tour after 1997 they'd had been put in a lunatic asylum. But look what happened.

Aside from Marco Pantani, Ullrich was the only rider of his generation that was on par talent-wise to challenge Armstrong. But Pevenage and his other idiot advisers felt Jan could make up what he missed in terms of training discipline with a doping program. Well, to beat Armstrong you needed both.

Contador may stop racing after the Tour, but believe me that is a smart move on his part. It will prolong his career and will put him in position to catch and hopefully break Armstrong's record of career Tour wins.

The only fair comparison to make is that Contador beats Ullrich every time regardless of TT course simply because he is the more disciplined rider. Talent-wise we will never know who could have beaten who if all things were equal, because they never were equal.
 
Jul 20, 2009
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Exactly. Nobody beats the Ullrich of 1997, not in a flat TT nor in a hilly/uphill TT. But Contador seems to be a more consistent rider and that is what really counts(if you wants to win many GTs)
 
Jul 13, 2009
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It also depends on the week of the Tour in which TT would be set. Remember that Ullrich almost never kept a stable form throughout the whole tour. He would be weaker in the beginning, and would peak in the final phase. In the third week, Ullrich was almost undroppable even in the steep mountains. I also think that at this point, we cannot evaluate Contador's TT full potential. I think this season, and especially the long TT will provide our answers.
 
I find it incredibly surprising that a rider on Manolo Saiz's team placed 48th in the TT in 2005, but destroys everyone in 2009 including L.A., Jan's eternal rival. The fact that we're trying to compare him to Jan Ulrich, well that's pure gold.

He's either the most talented, angelic and pure rider of the past 5 years and trumps Jan "Cream Pie" Ulrich hands down...or this thread is completely pointless as the only thing that differentiates the two is their doctor.
 
Willy_Voet said:
I find it incredibly surprising that a rider on Manolo Saiz's team placed 48th in the TT in 2005, but destroys everyone in 2009 including L.A., Jan's eternal rival. The fact that we're trying to compare him to Jan Ulrich, well that's pure gold.

He's either the most talented, angelic and pure rider of the past 5 years and trumps Jan "Cream Pie" Ulrich hands down...or this thread is completely pointless as the only thing that differentiates the two is their doctor.

To be fair, in 2005 contador was 22 years old, first tour de france, and had no reason to go all out in the time trial. But, yes.
 

Polish

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C'mon, Jan was a much better TT'er. No big deal.
Alberto is still awesome. Its ok.

zapata said:
To be fair, in 2005 contador was 22 years old, first tour de france, and had no reason to go all out in the time trial. But, yes.

When Jan was 22, he raced his first TdF too. He came in 2nd.
In the final TT that year, Big Mig demolished everyone -
everyone except Jan that is - Jan demolished Big Mig in that TT!


Willy_Voet said:
find it incredibly surprising that a rider on Manolo Saiz's team placed 48th in the TT in 2005, but destroys everyone in 2009 including L.A., Jan's eternal rival. The fact that we're trying to compare him to Jan Ulrich, well that's pure gold.

He's either the most talented, angelic and pure rider of the past 5 years and trumps Jan "Cream Pie" Ulrich hands down...or this thread is completely pointless as the only thing that differentiates the two is their doctor

I was under the impression that Alberto & Jan shared the same doctor.
Or at least the same OB/GYN...;)
 
Polish said:
.



When Jan was 22, he raced his first TdF too. He came in 2nd.
In the final TT that year, Big Mig demolished everyone -
everyone except Jan that is - Jan demolished Big Mig in that TT!



)

Just comparing contador 2005 to contador 2009, I'm not surprised that the latter goes faster.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Berzin said:
Contador may stop racing after the Tour, but believe me that is a smart move on his part. It will prolong his career and will put him in position to catch and hopefully break Armstrong's record of career Tour wins.

I wonder if he'll stop this year, or go for the Vuelta? I think that last year he switched to criteriums because he could ride alone and not have Bruyneel as a boss.

I think Martinelli will try to push him to go for another grand tour while they're together.
 
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theswordsman said:
I wonder if he'll stop this year, or go for the Vuelta? I think that last year he switched to criteriums because he could ride alone and not have Bruyneel as a boss.

I think Martinelli will try to push him to go for another grand tour while they're together.

He's leaving his options open for this year-- depending on how tired he is. I think it might be a year or so premature in terms of physical development, but he will know much better than I (really!! :rolleyes: ), and has so far managed to pace his career well judging by the results :D. One thing is sure, doing a Tour/Vuelta double before his body is ready for it would likely have long-term effects on the career. So I'd rather see him not do it when people think he can, than do it because of fan pressure.
 
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for those who are sayin that contador would beat ullrich, are you all 14? and i mean not only on tt but also on a climb. if you can find some videos...not short clips, but video of a full climb you'll se how armstrong and ullrich were flying in comparation with every freakin other rider out there. especially in 01 tour. i know they were mega hyper dope but man, they were eating the road in front of them. zip comparasion. just look to the results of most of the tour itt. armstrong, ullrich...........anybody.
 

DAOTEC

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¡Rrruuunnggg!

Der Jan kichs off 2010 season in Karting team with Marc Girardelli

12.03.2010 - Jan Ullrich attends the charity event RACE-4-KIDS on Snow in Kuhtai (Tyrol). Along with ski legend Marc Girardelli he is on 27 and 28 March 2010 go kart races in the, is organized by the DTM series leader Timo Scheider.
1268386189_gross.jpg

Overall, numerous celebrities start in 10 teams with fans who have bought their starting place in the run-Stars & Charity on eBay.

"I'm really looking forward to this extraordinary event for people with big hearts and spirit of sport and of course hope that as many donations come together", the Tour winner in 1997 writes on his homepage > http://www.janullrich.de/index.php?id=17&dat_id=16714

At the same time El 'Pilote' Pistolero takes it to the next level at Jarama
[www.Alberto Contador a 220 por hora.es]
ferrari_enzo2.jpg
:D
Video AC Pilote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adbuvu36wns
 
I have a hard time imagining anyone beating a 1997 Jan Ullrich in a TT--even Spartacus. I also can't imagine anyone beating same on a climb.

If the competition were Ullrich of July, 1997 vs. Contador in his best form to date (would this be July, 2009?), then Ulle '97 wins every time. Hands down. Dude was untouchable that year. Though he only took second in the final tt, his dominance of the entire race speaks to his strength if he were to focus on one time trial:

1 Jan Ullrich (GER) Team Telekom 100h 30' 35"
2 Richard Virenque (FRA) Festina-Lotus 9' 09"
3 Marco Pantani (ITA) Mercatone Uno 14' 03"
 
mr. tibbs said:
I have a hard time imagining anyone beating a 1997 Jan Ullrich in a TT--even Spartacus. I also can't imagine anyone beating same on a climb.

If the competition were Ullrich of July, 1997 vs. Contador in his best form to date (would this be July, 2009?), then Ulle '97 wins every time. Hands down. Dude was untouchable that year. Though he only took second in the final tt, his dominance of the entire race speaks to his strength if he were to focus on one time trial:

1 Jan Ullrich (GER) Team Telekom 100h 30' 35"
2 Richard Virenque (FRA) Festina-Lotus 9' 09"
3 Marco Pantani (ITA) Mercatone Uno 14' 03"

Jan was ill towards the end of the Tour in 97.
However, Olano was a beast in flat time trails back then. So loosing to him ain't no shame anyway.
 

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