Biggest winners and losers of 2011

[cineteq]

IMO no way enough to consider them one of the big winners (movistar, htc and garmin also did this). I'd say they had a successful tour. A decent giro. And a poor vuelta all things considered. On a whole I can't view euskatel a winner this season. I like them and all, but they were not a standout.

Exactly. C'mon Hitch you started EE troll. Who's the agent provocateur here? Next time look yourself in the mirror before calling other posters: trollers.

 

[jordan5000]

When a rider loses 1.5 minutes due to a somewhat questionable decision and loses the tour by 4 minutes + you can't really complain about the decision can you? He lost time, so what? Contador lost time and made a huge move to try and gain it back, while Samuel went for stage wins he knew he wouldn't get all the time back, if you lose time work your butoff to get it back or you can't complain too much, sorry a bit off topic I know.

 

[woodie]

Because the 3k crash cost Samu at least a minute and yet it was decided that (perhaps because Contador was in his group) he was not worthy of being considered for the 3k rule.

We both know if it had happened to Evens there would not be a day on the forum without the incident being mentioned. Kind of like we still hear about the 2009 Vuelta mechanical.

Sanchez was screwed. His fans have a right to complain about it, and your disapproval will do nothing to shut me up.




Stage win in all 3 gts.

Also, offense????

Do you not understand the 3km rule? he wasn't in that group when they crashed so he doesn't get their time, thats the rules, it sucks but the rule was there before the race, thats cycling

 

[The Hitch]

I don't even think acf would call it sabotage from the organizers tho. Just bad luck.... myabe he would

as for the 3 stage wins. IMO no way enough to consider them one of the big winners (movistar, htc and garmin also did this).

I'd say they had a succesful tour. A decent giro. And a poor vuelta all things considered. On a whole I can't view euskatel a winner this season. I like them and all, but they were not a standout.

Because they are a smaller team, even with world tour status.

4th in the Tour even with a stage win and 11 days in yellow would not be a good season for Leopard. But for Europcar it was an anno mirablis.

They havent won a stage in the Giro ever and in the Tour for years considering the 09 one has been taken away.

And they were pretty big stages as well, especially in the Giro.

 

[BroDeal]

Loser: Armstrong. Even publications that formally made bank promoting him have been carrying articles sneering at his credibility.

 

[The Hitch]

Do you not understand the 3km rule? he wasn't in that group when they crashed so he doesn't get their time, thats the rules, it sucks but the rule was there before the race, thats cycling

There was no rule because the organizers had never considered the possibility of such an eventuality . The fact that they then just gave everyone in the first group 6 seconds afterwords, even though some riders were legitimately dropped without being part of the crash, shows just how thoughtless the process was.

When a rider loses 1.5 minutes due to a somewhat questionable decision and loses the tour by 4 minutes + you can't really complain about the decision can you? He lost time, so what? Contador lost time and made a huge move to try and gain it back, while Samuel went for stage wins he knew he wouldn't get all the time back, if you lose time work your butoff to get it back or you can't complain too much, sorry a bit off topic I know.

He spent every mountain stage other than 18 attacking to get back the time he lost in the first place . Thats why he lost it all on Galibier, overcooked earlier.

If he had the same time as his rivals going into the mountains then he would not have cycled 20k into the wind on Tourmalet descent - luz climb, he would not have attacked 3k out for a couple of seconds gain on Plateau de Beille, and he and Contador would not have attempted a 2 man tt in a vain attempt to get a few seconds on a descent flat finish.

His efforts caught up with him on 18 where he lost all that time.

Samu made more moves then Contador actually who couldnt attack on Luz and Plateau as he had the knee injury. Contadors monster attack on telegraph only came after he was down and out.

 

[Parrulo]

i would like to add rui costa to the list of winners

finally got cleared from the unfair doping suspension the week before what would be one of the biggest goals of this seasons (a serious try at the ardennes) rode the 3 ardennes classics as the first 3 race days of his season being able to finish liege( barely outside the time cut tho) then gained form had white at the dauphine for a while won a stage at the tour, won the vuelta a madrid and GP Montreal and is now trying to get a good result at lombardy.

i would say he is on the winning side taking all this and the fact that he is only 24(turns 25 today actually ) into consideration!!!

 

[cineteq]

When a rider loses 1.5 minutes due to a somewhat questionable decision and loses the tour by 4 minutes + you can't really complain about the decision can you? He lost time, so what? Contador lost time and made a huge move to try and gain it back, while Samuel went for stage wins he knew he wouldn't get all the time back, if you lose time work your butoff to get it back or you can't complain too much, sorry a bit off topic I know.

You nailed it. Did anybody mention that it happened on Stage 1? Namely, the guy has 20 stages to go and still finished 4 min. + off the pace. Other examples, in this year's Vuelta Nibali failed to score a single bonus second in the magnificent liquigas TTT stage, yet in the end it made no difference whatsoever to his podium placement. On the other hand, Evans had a mechanical and still manage to recover and win the Tour. Next it's chaingate, A. Scheck mis-shifted and then...should I continue?
Riders made their own destiny.

 

[cineteq]

If he had the same time as his rivals going into the mountains then he would not have cycled 20k into the wind on Tourmalet descent - luz climb, he would not have attacked 3k out for a couple of seconds gain on Plateau de Beille, and he and Contador would not have attempted a 2 man tt in a vain attempt to get a few seconds on a descent flat finish.

If Evans wouldn't have had a mechanical on stage 19, he would have won the stage + he would have won the Tour by 2:30 +.

 

[BroDeal]

If Evans wouldn't have had a mechanical on stage 19, he would have won the stage + he would have won the Tour by 2:30 +.

Fail. Evans has never won a mountain stage in a GT. He would have found another way to lose.

 

[Woody22]

So just to clear something up Hitch; if Samu hadn't lost time in stage 1 do you think that he would have beaten Evans and won the Tour?

 

[The Hitch]

If Evans wouldn't have had a mechanical on stage 19, he would have won the stage + he would have won the Tour by 2:30 +.

What you are arguing is that fatigue doesnt exist.

It seems to me quite a simple idea that if someone attacks and drops all most contenders (sometimes all of them) 4 times in 6 stages, including on 2 brutal mtfs, eventually they will pay the price.

 

[The Hitch]

So just to clear something up Hitch; if Samu hadn't lost time in stage 1 do you think that he would have beaten Evans and won the Tour?

I think he would have had a very good chance to win that Tour, and would have finished in 3rd at least.

If Evans wouldn't have had a mechanical on stage 19, he would have won the stage + he would have won the Tour by 2:30 +.

What you are arguing is that fatigue doesnt exist.

It seems to me quite a simple idea that if someone attacks and drops most contenders (sometimes all of them) 4 times in 6 stages, including on 2 brutal mtfs, eventually they will pay the price.

 

[The Hitch]

So just to clear something up Hitch; if Samu hadn't lost time in stage 1 do you think that he would have beaten Evans and won the Tour?

I think he would have had a very good chance to win that Tour, and would have finished in 3rd at least.

If Evans wouldn't have had a mechanical on stage 19, he would have won the stage + he would have won the Tour by 2:30 +.

What you are arguing is that fatigue doesnt exist.

It seems to me quite a simple idea that if someone attacks and drops most contenders (sometimes all of them) 4 times in 6 stages, including on 2 brutal mtfs, eventually they will pay the price.

It might have even won him the Tour (as me and Timmy suggested on the thread at the time) because it meant he didnt spend the next km trying to hang on to Contador.

Had Voeckler had a mechanical at that convenient time, he wouldnt have spent Galibier on his own and then lost 2 minutes ( oh wait, you dont believe that fatigue plays a role in cycling, sorry scrap the last bit).

Seeing as it all came back together it certainatly didnt harm him.

But you know this, your just trying to be annoying.

 

[woodie]

There was no rule because the organizers had never considered the possibility of such an eventuality . The fact that they then just gave everyone in the first group 6 seconds afterwords, even though some riders were legitimately dropped without being part of the crash, shows just how thoughtless the process was.

The rule has been there for a while, if you are not in the group when they crash within the 3km you don't get the same time. Look it up. Do you race Hitch? Because if you did you might understand the rule.

The 3km rule is a UCI rule, it applies in every UCI race and most national races. And Gilbert won that stage by 6 seconds which is why they were given that time.

I understand your upset but really, grow up and get over it.

 

[Tigerion]

Goss- Only sprinter to survive Gilberts rampage on the Poggio and eventually won MSR after riding a smart finale.
Done nothing since though. But a monument is a monument.

Silver at the worlds is still a decent result


Win:
Jeremy Roy
Possibility the most mentioned name during the entire tour

Johnny "balls of titanium" Hoogerland
Went from unknown to one of the most recognised names based on guts

Pierre Rolland
Gave the future of french cycling a ray of light

EBH
Continued to grow and improve

Rojas: Made the green jersey and interesting event

Tony Martin: The king is dead, all hail the new king of the clock

Losers
katusha: Terrible tour but season redeemd purely on Rodriguez season (who should probably have been in wins)

Samu: Side with Hitch on this one, went in to the tour on good form and was out of it before he started. Had he been close in time and showed the same spirit as on Alpe D huez things might have been different

HTC
Winners all season but big losers by the end

 

[auscyclefan94]

The Hitch, the 3km rule was used appropriately at the TDF. You are sounding more like me by being very defensive regarding your favourite rider failing at the Tour. Samu was badly positioned like COntador. Both crahsed outside the 3km mark. They don't get the same time as the people who did crash within the 3km mark. The riders know the rules. The riders know the course from 9 months before the race. Yes, what happened to Samu was ****, but he will win a Grand Tour. I heard he was riding the giro next year which he could definetly win (if no TTT is in the parcours). Stay positive!

 

[jordan5000]

There was no rule because the organizers had never considered the possibility of such an eventuality . The fact that they then just gave everyone in the first group 6 seconds afterwords, even though some riders were legitimately dropped without being part of the crash, shows just how thoughtless the process was.



He spent every mountain stage other than 18 attacking to get back the time he lost in the first place . Thats why he lost it all on Galibier, overcooked earlier.

If he had the same time as his rivals going into the mountains then he would not have cycled 20k into the wind on Tourmalet descent - luz climb, he would not have attacked 3k out for a couple of seconds gain on Plateau de Beille, and he and Contador would not have attempted a 2 man tt in a vain attempt to get a few seconds on a descent flat finish.

His efforts caught up with him on 18 where he lost all that time.

Samu made more moves then Contador actually who couldnt attack on Luz and Plateau as he had the knee injury. Contadors monster attack on telegraph only came after he was down and out.

Well if he spent everyday attacking and was a better cyclist he would have gained time, but he didn't gain back much meaning that even when he was trying his best he couldn't succeed so even if he hadn't lost the time he still would have lost.

And Contador was 4:29 behind Schleck and 3:32 behind Cadel, he wasn't out, yes the odds were against him but we saw Sastre gain 3 minutes on him on Alpe D'huez so if Contador had a good day he could have gotten the time, and if got 2:30 or so on Schleck he could have passed him in the time trial.

 

[daveinzambia]

Have to agree that one of the big winners this year was France

Reckon French cycling fans will be in a much happier place than they were this time last year when questioning if they would even manage a single top tier team.

 

[Archibald]

i'll throw these two into the ring

loser: Zomegnan

winner: rojano

 

[Zam_Olyas]

winners - australia, GB,france
losers- Italia.

 

[The Hitch]

The Hitch, the 3km rule was used appropriately at the TDF. You are sounding more like me by being very defensive regarding your favourite rider failing at the Tour.

No, there is right and there is wrong. Unlke you perhaps i would have opposed that injustice if it happened to anyone, though since no one seemed to take notice that Samu had what would have been his career highlight, on the form of his life taken away from him, i have been more vocal about it.

Samu was badly positioned like COntador. Both crahsed outside the 3km mark. They don't get the same time as the people who did crash within the 3km mark

no one said they should get the same time as the riders in the first group. They come into the 3k zone 20 seconds down and are held up by a crash so should get 20 seconds

The riders know the rules. The riders know the course from 9 months before the race. Yes, what happened to Samu was ****, but he will win a Grand Tour. I heard he was riding the giro next year which he could definetly win (if no TTT is in the parcours). Stay positive!

Im not sure the riders do know the rules on that, and if they do, theres nothing they can do about some kid deciding he was going to take out half the peloton anyway.

As for the rest, its just white noise to me.

Well if he spent everyday attacking and was a better cyclist he would have gained time, but he didn't gain back much meaning that even when he was trying his best he couldn't succeed so even if he hadn't lost the time he still would have lost.

And Contador was 4:29 behind Schleck and 3:32 behind Cadel, he wasn't out, yes the odds were against him but we saw Sastre gain 3 minutes on him on Alpe D'huez so if Contador had a good day he could have gotten the time, and if got 2:30 or so on Schleck he could have passed him in the time trial.

Umm no.

Samu is a climber tter. He was evenly matched with the other major favourites.

That means like the others he could have stayed withing the group comfortably (like the far weaker Frank Schleck managed), but getting major time onto a group, is another thing. Frank Schleck got a bloody podium and he couldnt get any major time on the group even though that was the team strategy.

Sastre 08 was a better climber than Sanchez, and had a stronger team, while Contador and Landis are in a different league to Samu. But this was not a Tour of super performances. They were quite evenly matched and Samu showed on the early stages and in the mountains he was as good as most of the heads of state.

He relies on all aspects of cycling not just climbing though.

Give him an even playing field and he can do his thing.

Have him chase everyone from 2.30 back and he doesnt stand a chance.



I seem to recall Evans lost a similar time in the 09 TDF and was out of it too.

Scarponi in the 2010 Giro is another example. He was the 2nd strongest rider in a gt that had far more and harder climbs than this years TOur, but the 2.30 lost in the ttt was enough to stop him even making the podium. And that was a gt with significantly greater gaps.

 

[auscyclefan94]

No, there is right and there is wrong. Unlke you perhaps i would have opposed that injustice if it happened to anyone, though since no one seemed to take notice that Samu had what would have been his career highlight, on the form of his life taken away from him, i have been more vocal about it.

no one said they should get the same time as the riders in the first group. They come into the 3k zone 20 seconds down and are held up by a crash so should get 20 seconds

Im not sure the riders do know the rules on that, and if they do, theres nothing they can do about some kid deciding he was going to take out half the peloton anyway.

As for the rest, its just white noise to me.

.

No you are being a fanboy. Listen to yourself. You seem to be that 'so sure' that it would of been Samu's 'career highlight'. You can't say that. btw, Samu's group was not 20 seconds behind at that point. They were more like 50 seconds behind. Thirdly, many crashes have riders who are involved in them aren't at fault. Fourthly, it would of been a matter of only been a couple of seconds that the Sanchez/Contador group would of been held up. The crash cleared quite quickly which was indicated by how many riders caught on to the fast moving Sanchez/Contador group. Just because a rider wasn't necessarily at fault for a crah does not mean they should receive some sort of charity.

 

[Sophistic]

Winners:
Evans, Gilbert, Cobo, Froome, Wiggins, Goss, T.Martin, young Rabos
Losers:
Contador (sorry but winning the Giro against 2nd tier guys is nothing compared to 2009/10), Gesink, Canc, VdB,

 

[bicing]

The Hitch must have alzhiemers or something, first he's saying Sanchez would win a TDF raced as a TT, and now he's saying that Sanchez was robbed in this year's TDF?

Hitch, you had been a balanced, measured, humorous poster until these epic fails. You can state your opinion on a thread, but when you are clearly shot down please, just please, be wise enough to admit you're wrong.