Bin Laden dead

[Oldman]

I always thought the war was about the gas/oil pipeline corridor through Afghanistan to the sea. Of course the pipeline is not built yet...but the Taliban knows our motives...without their cut...no dice, easier for them to control opium then to make a deal with us...big market in Europe and worldwide for opium.
No doubt many mineral resources in Afghanistan, but protracted war with the Taliban is impossible, all countries who try to get a long term relationship there are ground down.

That was definitely motive #1 and a reason for Americans to consider the strategy of their Presidents carefully. That Bush didn't get to attack Iran because of public opinion is important. Now that Iran is surrounded by nations in turmoil it may make sense to continue to have troops in Afghanistan, Bin Laden or no.

 

[The Hitch]

...really hate to rain on your parade but outside of some rah rah segments of US society most of the world agrees with some version of Churchill's view...and given the historical record and the last decade of US actions he is much righter than not...yes, his is a rather strong statement, but the general thrust of his argument is quite defensible...

Cheers

blutto

Ward Churchill says that the people killed in 911 were legitimate targets calling them "little Eichmans". He says that they were not innocents (even the little children) because they lived in America therefore became combatants.

The argument continues that anyone living in America is a "little eichman" and a legitimate target for mass murder.

When you say that his argument is perferectly defendable you reveal yourself to be a total wackjob, who is beyond anyones help.

But that is nothing compared to your next statement. Its people like you that are the reason why the rest of the world sees the average american as ignorant. But seriously failing to locate Canada on the map is a minor fault compared to believing that the rest of the world agrees with you pscychopaths.

You bin laden and churchill may see little eichamns walking around times square but believe me, 99% of the world sees innocent civilians.

 

[patricknd]

Ward Churchill says that the people killed in 911 were legitimate targets calling them "little Eichmans". He says that they were not innocents (even the little children) because they lived in America therefore became combatants.

The argument continues that anyone living in America is a "little eichman" and a legitimate target for mass murder.

When you say that his argument is perferectly defendable you reveal yourself to be a total wackjob, who is beyond anyones help.

But that is nothing compared to your next statement. Its people like you that are the reason why the rest of the world sees the average american as ignorant. But seriously failing to locate Canada on the map is a minor fault compared to believing that the rest of the world agrees with you pscychopaths.

You bin laden and churchill may see little eichamns walking around times square but believe me, 99% of the world sees innocent civilians.

don't sugar coat it hitch, tell us how you really feel

but seriously, good response

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I deleted a few posts. I think we can all have a civil discussion here without resolving to insulting each other.

 

[Polish]

War....what is it good for?

http://youtu.be/Kh9S1Hk975U

 

[redtreviso]

don't sugar coat it hitch, tell us how you really feel

but seriously, good response

nobody every gave 2 s about ward churchhill except alcoholic dittoheads and hannity listeners.

 

[Hugh Januss]

The basic human response that everything "our side" does is justified and good and everything the "other side" does is wicked and evil is what guarantees the never ending cycle of conflict. It is no less wrong to kill thousands of innocent civilians with bombs than it is to kill them by flying airplanes into buildings, the fact that they just got in the way while we were going after evil doers makes it no less morally reprehensible.
The trouble with that eye for an eye thing is eventually we run out of eyes all the way around, mankind has beed blind for a long time.

 

[Clearly Unstable]

Killing ObL was like killing a rabid fox, it had to be done but it's nothing to celebrate over.

He's dead but I'm not so sure he didn't die still 'winning'.....thousands of lives, trillions of dollars, mucked up economy, a longer list of haters.

Should be an interesting next 10 years.

China gain much international influence without a shot fired while USA fires them off faster then we can make them and is trapped in the house it built with no doors or windows.

 

[blutto]

That was definitely motive #1 and a reason for Americans to consider the strategy of their Presidents carefully. That Bush didn't get to attack Iran because of public opinion is important. Now that Iran is surrounded by nations in turmoil it may make sense to continue to have troops in Afghanistan, Bin Laden or no.

..little confused about your reference to Iran...

...if you are inferring that Iran should be shielded from the turmoil..well bravo as that may actually be the smart move...

...if you are inferring that Iran is a serious threat that must be dealt in the same level-headed way that both Iraq and Afghanistan were dealt with you may want to consider the following...

...the Iran of today, is as much as anything a function of the blow-back from decades of rather stupid US meddling in Iranian affairs....yet despite the deservedly negative place that the US has in the Iranian mindset Iran has in the last decade attempted to reach a rapprochement with the US on several occassions...what is also important and generally not known is that in the early stages of the conflict in Afghanistan Iran went out of their way to provide intel and support for the fight against the Taliban ( and by extension al Qaeda ) which was a common enemy...( which actually leads to another kinda related point...Saddam was a mortal enemy of both the Taliban and al Qaeda...so the question is, why in addition to ****ing on Iranian efforts to help fight the more or less official war on terror, did the US carry bin Laden's water in Iraq ...so is the war on terror a sham?...is the war on terror just a smoke screen for a land/resources grab?...because as part of the response to deal with bin Laden et al the US actions vis a vis Iran and Iraq don't make that much sense...)...

Cheers

blutto

 

[flicker]

Watching the local population, I spotted a woman in a head scarf, at the bus stop. She appeared a bit humbled, however that might be conjecture, on my part. My sons teacher who is arab american, is conducting business as usual, a dynamic guy, wish I had 5th grade teacher like him.
For me a non arab, I feel relief in Osamas' death. When 911 occurred I stopped in 7-11 to buy a cup of coffee on my way to work, people were transfixed on the TV set, it was happening live, and no one knew what to make of it. Osamas' death gives me closure on the deaths Osama precipitated.
I look forward to a brighter future. Quite different then when I came home and JFK had been assassinated, that was so sad and needless.

 

[blutto]

Ward Churchill says that the people killed in 911 were legitimate targets calling them "little Eichmans". He says that they were not innocents (even the little children) because they lived in America therefore became combatants.

The argument continues that anyone living in America is a "little eichman" and a legitimate target for mass murder.

When you say that his argument is perferectly defendable you reveal yourself to be a total wackjob, who is beyond anyones help.

But that is nothing compared to your next statement. Its people like you that are the reason why the rest of the world sees the average american as ignorant. But seriously failing to locate Canada on the map is a minor fault compared to believing that the rest of the world agrees with you pscychopaths.

You bin laden and churchill may see little eichamns walking around times square but believe me, 99% of the world sees innocent civilians.

..if I had said perfectly defend-able you have a valid point...but I didn't..though in retrospect I should have added a qualifier such as in the most general sense...and yes there there are parts of his analysis that are quite cringe-worthy...but at least he doesn't trot that wonderful term collateral damage that the Western world tends to use when they actually do the same thing....

...by the way, this is second time you have pulled this mis-reading/misrepresentation of something that I have written ( and then drawn some rather ugly conclusions from your misreadings/misrepresentations)...do you just an inability to comprehend or do you have a more sinister agenda that includes a lot of projection...and if you do, please do me a favour, go bark up another tree...

Cheers

blutto

 

[flicker]

Local news

From our local Afghani SF Bay Area community.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=8107632

 

[MD FACG FACP]

Blutto I sure hope you didn't mean Ward Churchill ! . The plagiarist from my town....lol. If you did, I have only one thing to say C'MON DOG !

You really think that most people in the world believe 8 year old school kids deserve to die and are to blame for the policies of their government ?

I meet people from all over the world frequently I've never gotten that vibe.
Most people are smart enough to realize it's best to judge people as individuals. Maybe that's why Ward got the boot and lost his appeal, because of his lack of intelligence. Not to mention the fact that he claims to be an American Indian and isn't. #fraud

 

[Anonymous]

nobody every gave 2 s about ward churchhill except alcoholic dittoheads and hannity listeners.

The mother of all fall-back positions.

 

[blutto]

Blutto I sure hope you didn't mean Ward Churchill ! . The plagiarist from my town....lol. If you did, I have only one thing to say C'MON DOG !

You really think that most people in the world believe 8 year old school kids deserve to die and are to blame for the policies of their government ?

I meet people from all over the world frequently I've never gotten that vibe.
Most people are smart enough to realize it's best to judge people as individuals. Maybe that's why Ward got the boot and lost his appeal, because of his lack of intelligence. Not to mention the fact that he claims to be an American Indian and isn't. #fraud

...look...I'm haven't drank the Churchill kool-aid and am defending every word this man has ever written or spoken...I was commenting on the impression I get that there a sentiment ( and it is growing because of the ham-handed US response to 9/11) that there was a strong element of blowback in the reasoning behind the 9/11 attack....

...and yes that sentiment is in probably in most cases a product of a kind of drive-by scholarship that informs a lot of public opinion...but the fact it is there and because the Churchill case is now tied up in it he becomes part of that narrative....and when I say it is defend-able I am not saying it is necessarily right just that you can make a case for it ( just as one could make a case for a lot of things that are the products of the insight that drive-by scholarship produces )....

...and yes we should see people as individuals but our media-driven world paints the world in broad brush strokes...and more is the pity for that...as individuals we would have a better chance of getting along but we don't, we are taught to see generalities that are very easily manipulated...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Anonymous]

So theyve killed the bloke accused of plotting the 9/11 attacks, when in reality although he may have sent the planes, he certainly didnt have anything to do with the sudden collapse of three different buildings. The americans need to look closer to home for the true perpetrators.

So now everything is rosy, Bin Laden is dead, terrorism is over, and all the deaths and money spent in tracking him down to a semi detached house in ****stan has been proven worthwhile.

And the americans can all dance on the streets saying what a wonderful job their armed forces did and celebrate his death with parties and dancing. (the scenes from america looked remarkably like the scenes you see in eastern countries when they go burning american flags)

Bin Laden is dead, Obama is a pillock, Bush is an even bigger pillock and the american people have made complete arses of themselves.

 

[forty four]

George Bush isn't really close to death yet....

rofl true that nor cheney well hes kept alive by daily transfusion of angel tears and baby blood.

 

[Oldman]

..little confused about your reference to Iran...

...if you are inferring that Iran should be shielded from the turmoil..well bravo as that may actually be the smart move...
...if you are inferring that Iran is a serious threat that must be dealt in the same level-headed way that both Iraq and Afghanistan were dealt with you may want to consider the following...

...the Iran of today, is as much as anything a function of the blow-back from decades of rather stupid US meddling in Iranian affairs....yet despite the deservedly negative place that the US has in the Iranian mindset Iran has in the last decade attempted to reach a rapprochement with the US on several occassions...what is also important and generally not known is that in the early stages of the conflict in Afghanistan Iran went out of their way to provide intel and support for the fight against the Taliban ( and by extension al Qaeda ) which was a common enemy...( which actually leads to another kinda related point...Saddam was a mortal enemy of both the Taliban and al Qaeda...so the question is, why in addition to ****ing on Iranian efforts to help fight the more or less official war on terror, did the US carry bin Laden's water in Iraq ...so is the war on terror a sham?...is the war on terror just a smoke screen for a land/resources grab?...because as part of the response to deal with bin Laden et al the US actions vis a vis Iran and Iraq don't make that much sense...)...

Cheers

blutto

We agree on the bolded outcome for Iran. My point about Iran is that it still has a government while many other Gulf nations are falling. It is relatively less a headache for US interests in that regard. The "war on terror" has never been static and that term is only put out for political purposes IMO. A greater stake in containing resource balances including Kazach and Russion oil and the potential impact of their distribution on Opec, Euro and American corporate oil interests has much to do with the whole effort to date. There is a tremendous balance of power issue behind the scenes and "terror" provided a convenient way to deal with it.
Iraq was/is high maintenence and the US rightfully is backing away from it. That combined with huge domestic oil discoveries in the US and Canada make it useful for a troop base only; it was a minimal oil resource. That situation will probably shape policy going forward as well.
Bin Laden was a specific burden on any US politician.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Ward Churchill says that the people killed in 911 were legitimate targets calling them "little Eichmans". He says that they were not innocents (even the little children) because they lived in America therefore became combatants.

The argument continues that anyone living in America is a "little eichman" and a legitimate target for mass murder.

When you say that his argument is perferectly defendable you reveal yourself to be a total wackjob, who is beyond anyones help.

But that is nothing compared to your next statement. Its people like you that are the reason why the rest of the world sees the average american as ignorant. But seriously failing to locate Canada on the map is a minor fault compared to believing that the rest of the world agrees with you pscychopaths.

You bin laden and churchill may see little eichamns walking around times square but believe me, 99% of the world sees innocent civilians.

Great post Hitch.

Since I have not had a chance today to add my very simplistic view on this Obama dead thing I want to let everyone know that I am happy Osama is DEAD.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

So theyve killed the bloke accused of plotting the 9/11 attacks, when in reality although he may have sent the planes, he certainly didnt have anything to do with the sudden collapse of three different buildings. The americans need to look closer to home for the true perpetrators.

So now everything is rosy, Bin Laden is dead, terrorism is over, and all the deaths and money spent in tracking him down to a semi detached house in ****stan has been proven worthwhile.

And the americans can all dance on the streets saying what a wonderful job their armed forces did and celebrate his death with parties and dancing. (the scenes from america looked remarkably like the scenes you see in eastern countries when they go burning american flags)

Bin Laden is dead, Obama is a pillock, Bush is an even bigger pillock and the american people have made complete arses of themselves.

Thanks a million. I am so happy your view of us Americans is in such high regard.

I am dancing here at the office. We all got together this morning in our company galley and played Kool and the Gang "Celebration" followed by your favorite as noted in the post above David Lee Roth's "Dancing in the Streets".
We all then ran out to the parking garage grabbed our AK47's and started firing off rounds into the blue sky! It was great. We will plan to do this again every morning this work week.

Our company president who is French said he was so proud of us Americans that we are going to have a special event for Osama's killing coming on this Saturday! I just can not imagine what we may have planned for this!

 

[Oldman]

So theyve killed the bloke accused of plotting the 9/11 attacks, when in reality although he may have sent the planes, he certainly didnt have anything to do with the sudden collapse of three different buildings. The americans need to look closer to home for the true perpetrators.

So now everything is rosy, Bin Laden is dead, terrorism is over, and all the deaths and money spent in tracking him down to a semi detached house in ****stan has been proven worthwhile.

And the americans can all dance on the streets saying what a wonderful job their armed forces did and celebrate his death with parties and dancing. (the scenes from america looked remarkably like the scenes you see in eastern countries when they go burning american flags)

Bin Laden is dead, Obama is a pillock, Bush is an even bigger pillock and the american people have made complete arses of themselves.

Really? I speak English but have no idea how you know what I'm thinking and what I care about. The minority of people reacting as you see on TV are now involved in the same debate we are: what is appropriate?

 

[Anonymous]

Our company president who is French said he was so proud of us Americans that we are going to have a special event for Obama's killing coming on this Saturday! I just can not imagine what we may have planned for this!

President Obama is being killed this saturday?

 

[Polish]

So theyve killed the bloke accused of plotting the 9/11 attacks, when in reality although he may have sent the planes, he certainly didnt have anything to do with the sudden collapse of three different buildings. The americans need to look closer to home for the true perpetrators.
.

Bin Laden had nothing to do with the sudden collapse of 3 different buildings?
Americans need to look closer to home for the true perpetrators?
What what what?

Gosh, those statements just made me stop dancing in my tracks.
What are you saying.

 

[flicker]

So theyve killed the bloke accused of plotting the 9/11 attacks, when in reality although he may have sent the planes, he certainly didnt have anything to do with the sudden collapse of three different buildings. The americans need to look closer to home for the true perpetrators.

So now everything is rosy, Bin Laden is dead, terrorism is over, and all the deaths and money spent in tracking him down to a semi detached house in ****stan has been proven worthwhile.

And the americans can all dance on the streets saying what a wonderful job their armed forces did and celebrate his death with parties and dancing. (the scenes from america looked remarkably like the scenes you see in eastern countries when they go burning american flags)

Bin Laden is dead, Obama is a pillock, Bush is an even bigger pillock and the american people have made complete arses of themselves.

Dim, If you believe the World Trade Center going down was a conspiracy by the US government ,you are dead wrong.
I don't understand. I ausume you are living in Britain. People in the US are not dancing in the streets, the war is not over.
I flew into Gatwcik in Jan.85.Landed got out into terminal after customs and saw8 Brit. sodiers standing on balcony,ready for acrtion.I saw a commando in Paris with UZI ready at the Israeli empassy. I was pulled off a train crossing border,FRANCE/ITALY almost everyone was strip seached, 5;31 am. I was evacuated from the Pompedou Museum Paris and saw street vendors runningacross the plaza from the building.
Believe, we in the USA are sober, we see the reality. After 911 we lost a lot of freedoms, freedoms you had lost before I visited your country in 1985. Now we may have less freedoms than your country.
Individuals like Bin Laden have taken much from us and our children. Still we in the USA are a positive group. Please, learn from us.

 

[hfer07]

This made me smile

apparently this turned out to be truth-OBL was tracked down by a cellphone call.....