Bjarne Riis, saved by silence?

[RobbieCanuck]

Simplisitic theories

Quote: "I spent all day lying in bed with the curtains closed because it was impossible to understand these development
http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/...ore assuming "it's not hard to understand!":)

 

[Clausfarre]

After watching the Riis doc I was genuinely surprised to find the troublesome upbringing he had and the depression he had to deal with. Not that this is in any way an excuse for his wrongdoings but I thought his Tour abscence and complete silence during the press storm following Tyler and others' accusations was a well thought out reaction (or lack of, rather). It all got to him.

So as we learned he has had a lot to deal with on a personal level, it shed light on his actions during the past few years. It probably doesn't change much in the way he is viewed in general but it was informative nontheless.

 

[42x16ss]

My lists are not mistakes?



Bruyneel ran the team as DS, so he should take responsibility.



Remind us about other teams caught with tranfusion equipment after using it to infuse blood? Riis's team?



Is his skill at getting away? No that is the corruption of the sport. That his riders were caught shows a lack of skill.



If you are talking about buying your way to 7 straight TdF wins, where is the skill in that?

Of course they were mistakes but I believe they are talking about Bruyneel as a DS on the road. Separate the backroom stuff from the racing for a minute and you'll get the gist of it

 

[Benotti69]

Of course they were mistakes but I believe they are talking about Bruyneel as a DS on the road. Separate the backroom stuff from the racing for a minute and you'll get the gist of it

When your boy is ahead in terms of doping and has the ASO and UCI onside to win the TdF there aint no DSing required.

How many monuments did Bruyneel win with USPS/Disco?

See the Gist yet?

 

[Franklin]

The problem is of course is that Jean de Gribaldy never coached a rider that won a GT. Does that disqualify him from being a skilled DS?

We will disagree and that's okay, but tactically Lance beat Ulrich who had not exactly an inexperienced DS. Nor can we say Ulli was a paladin. It's not that Hein would have used a helicopter to help Lance if he boinked or that he caused rain in the last TT so Ulli failed.

As said before, Bruyneel is nowhere near being a great DS, his backdoor antics make him a scourge of this sport. But him being a crook does not mean he was bad at tactics... There have been many dope-fueled teams that never managed a GT win.

But let's drop this. Riis, Bruyneel-them being skilled or not is not interesting.

 

[Samson777]

http://www.feltet.dk/nyheder/contador_bjarne_er_vigtig_for_min_saeson/

Contador: I believe Riis have higher moral standards then any other boss I had in my career. ( when it comes to doping)

The funny thing is, that it is perhaps not that far from the truth, that you would think.

Ex Bosses of Contador:

- Saiz
- Bruynell
- Yvon Sanquer/ Vino

 

[42x16ss]

When your boy is ahead in terms of doping and has the ASO and UCI onside to win the TdF there aint no DSing required.

How many monuments did Bruyneel win with USPS/Disco?

See the Gist yet?

FWIW I think that on the road Bruyneel was a poor DS, unable to see past one tactic, which was only suited to stage racing - whence no big classics wins. Others disagree, this is how we ended up here.

 

[Avoriaz]

The problem is of course is that Jean de Gribaldy never coached a rider that won a GT. Does that disqualify him from being a skilled DS? .

Eric Caritoux, Vuelta 1984?

 

[Franklin]

Eric Caritoux, Vuelta 1984?

True enough. And that one was not exactly by a superior rider.

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/10...jan/23/cycling-relationship-depression-doping

Good article on Riis, depression and PEDs in general.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/10...jan/23/cycling-relationship-depression-doping

Good article on Riis, depression and PEDs in general.

Very good article, surprised it came from the guardian.

Still picking on cycling though, when doping is rife in other sports, apart from allowing a few quotes from Riis to be featured in the article.

 

[Race Radio]

Johan's sanction cannot be good for Riis. The arbitrators set clear levels of evidence they are willing to accept. If ADD has enough direct witness testimony of doping post 2004 Riis could be cooked

 

[Benotti69]

FWIW I think that on the road Bruyneel was a poor DS, unable to see past one tactic, which was only suited to stage racing - whence no big classics wins. Others disagree, this is how we ended up here.

I think Bruyneel wasn't the sharpest tac in the box. Agreed. Armstrong was always the brains in that team.

 

[Benotti69]

Johan's sanction cannot be good for Riis. The arbitrators set clear levels of evidence they are willing to accept. If ADD has enough direct witness testimony of doping post 2004 Riis could be cooked

How many? 2, 3, 4 or more.

How many will testify against Riis? Rasmussen, Hamilton and Jaksche......

 

[Netserk]

AFAIK SOL is eight years from when ADD opens a case against Riis (is this correct? Or was it from when they started to investigate? Either way the three names will still be irrelevant) which hasn't happened yet. That makes testimonies from Rasmussen, Hamilton and Jaksche irrelevant as all that is before 2006 (and 2005).

I'd actually say that Johan's sanction is good for Riis. SOL wasn't tolled for him, and then certainly won't for Riis. Also unlike Johan, Riis (seemingly) didn't run a big program within the team, but had outsourced some (most?) of it. What more, since Puerto I'd guess that he has distanced himself even more from his riders' doping (not that he isn't aware, but probably not as involved).

I don't think the investigation by ADD will amount to much, and I highly doubt they will sanction Riis. I do think it'll tarnish his reputation even further and conclude that there was team doping in the past, but nothing recent enough to sanction him.

 

[peloton]

AFAIK SOL is eight years from when ADD opens a case against Riis (is this correct? Or was it from when they started to investigate? Either way the three names will still be irrelevant) which hasn't happened yet. That makes testimonies from Rasmussen, Hamilton and Jaksche irrelevant as all that is before 2006 (and 2005).

I'd actually say that Johan's sanction is good for Riis. SOL wasn't tolled for him, and then certainly won't for Riis. Also unlike Johan, Riis (seemingly) didn't run a big program within the team, but had outsourced some (most?) of it. What more, since Puerto I'd guess that he has distanced himself even more from his riders' doping (not that he isn't aware, but probably not as involved).

I don't think the investigation by ADD will amount to much, and I highly doubt they will sanction Riis. I do think it'll tarnish his reputation even further and conclude that there was team doping in the past, but nothing recent enough to sanction him.

Pretty much agree, the riders whose testimonies actually count are the likes of DZ and CVV, who said they were cleans from -05/-06, and I don't expect any of the current riders talking about their time with Riis.

No doubt Riis knew about his riders doping, but was he involved in the scale JB was, I don't know.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Netserk;1445487]

AFAIK SOL is eight years from when ADD opens a case against Riis (is this correct? Or was it from when they started to investigate?

The 8 years starts to run from the date he is formally charged with a doping violation.

 

[Race Radio]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/09/a...on-into-riis-doping-in-cycling-still-ongoing/

she indicted that the process was ongoing. “We hope to finish a report within some months, but we cannot be more specific right now.”

the sale of Riis’ team to Oleg Tinkov plus the expected transferral of the team registration from Denmark to Russia would not change anything in terms of possible sanctions.

“It is irrelevant if he continues to operate in another country,” it said then, referring to Riis. “For a sports director, the penalty applies to all work, no matter where the licence belongs.

“It’s the same as applies for athletes. During a sanction period, a cyclist may not switch to a team with the licence of another country and keep racing for it.”

 

[Netserk]

The big problem is that most that is on Riis is from before 2005 which he is totally safe from. If they finish by the end of this year they can only use anything after September(or later) 2006.

VdV stopped doping in April '06 and Zabriskie stopped in July '06. I can't see anyone ADD have talked to having anything damaging on Riis after Fuentes. Now if they open the case at the beginning of next year they can use anything from primo 2005 onwards (right?), but I think most of the dirt available to ADD are from before that time.

 

[Race Radio]

The big problem is that most that is on Riis is from before 2005 which he is totally safe from. If they finish by the end of this year they can only use anything after September(or later) 2006.

VdV stopped doping in April '06 and Zabriskie stopped in July '06. I can't see anyone ADD have talked to having anything damaging on Riis after Fuentes. Now if they open the case at the beginning of next year they can use anything from primo 2005 onwards (right?), but I think most of the dirt available to ADD are from before that time.

Tolling the SOL has been upheld in multiple cases recently so perhaps that is the direction they will take.

 

[Netserk]

Tolling the SOL has been upheld in multiple cases recently so perhaps that is the direction they will take.

Since it didn't happen with Bruyneel and Riis hasn't done anything to my knowledge that in that sense is worse than anything Hog did, I don't think so. Tbh I think it'll end up as a "this is what happened, cycling was really bad, but is better now. The bad times are so far back that we can't ban anyone" I just don't see it amount to much.

 

[Benotti69]

Riis is quite teflon. Selling his team appeared to be getting some money to fight this. I wonder did Riis do any non disclosure deal with Oleg in financial terms.

 

[inri2000]

Tolling the SOL has been upheld in multiple cases recently so perhaps that is the direction they will take.

Wishful thinking

 

[Netserk]

Riis is quite teflon. Selling his team appeared to be getting some money to fight this. I wonder did Riis do any non disclosure deal with Oleg in financial terms.

I don't think he'll spend a penny defending this, and if he does it is with money he already had.

 

[Samson777]

Today is the 2 Year anniversary for Anti doping Denmarks rapport about Riis. Still nothing have been published.

But with the mention of Rovny, Petrov and Kreuiziger in the Padova rapport, their is not total silence on this great anniversary

A short interview with Riis himself about the "situation": http://www.bt.dk/cykling/riis-holdt...oping-danmark-i-to-aar-hvad-skal-det-ende-med

In short: Riis have no idea what Anti doping Denmark wants to accomplish with the rapport. He run a serious team, he look his riders in the eyes to decide if he can trust them. And of course the problem with doping was in the 90's...