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Blood Sweat and Gears - CVV interview

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Dr. Maserati said:
Where have you made a valid point?

This was your opening post:


Are you suggesting that the 'Postals' did not manipulate the LAC measurements? (The OP never said 'Postals').

I have no problem talking about the 'thread' - in fact the person to bring in the newspaper headline and go OT, was you.

The OP mentions many people related to the Postal team, I think he left out Chef Duffy and the guy who stores the tubulars in his basement. The OP didn't use Postals, I did. I explained to you already what my use of Postals encompasses and even used bullets to break it out for you. I have misdiagnosed you, its not reading comprehension issues is reading issues. I'm suggesting the "postals" may not have manipulated anything. Again, you never saw the movie so you have no idea of the context or years between the 99 test and the revelation that his value may have been manipulated. Go watch the movie and come back. Its really good and its mostly slow talking and moving pictures so you will be able to follow along.

You linked to the Times article in an attempt to call me out and show your superior intellect but it didn't work because you never read the OP or saw the movie. While it was unnecessary it was OT, no issue there.
 

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JRTinMA said:
The OP mentions many people related to the Postal team, I think he left out Chef Duffy and the guy who stores the tubulars in his basement. The OP didn't use Postals, I did. I explained to you already what my use of Postals encompasses and even used bullets to break it out for you. I have misdiagnosed you, its not reading comprehension issues is reading issues. I'm suggesting the "postals" may not have manipulated anything. Again, you never saw the movie so you have no idea of the context or years between the 99 test and the revelation that his value may have been manipulated. Go watch the movie and come back. Its really good and its mostly slow talking and moving pictures so you will be able to follow along.

You linked to the Times article in an attempt to call me out and show your superior intellect but it didn't work because you never read the OP or saw the movie. While it was unnecessary it was OT, no issue there.
You're a good teacher - I spotted that mistake first time round.

So, you are saying you introduced the word 'Postals' -not the OP - to prove that the "Postals' did not manipulate the test. Congrats, you win!

I believe a link to where CVV discusses the actual LAC test is more relevant to the thread than having to make up a strawman to make a point.

(and the guy who stores the tub's in his basement is Julien.)
 
Dr. Maserati said:
I know I'm still learning - wouldn't it be more accurate to just say you have no 'point'?

My point has never changed, your comments have been pointless. Maybe it was just two different results separated by years and no deception. I never said its fact they did or didn't lie, I offered an alternate option and presented some variables. The OP mentioned the a movie and you offer up a Times article and say its all you need. You never saw the movie and your commenting ignorantly while having no clue about the context and telling me I have no point. And I'm an idiot for engaging a troll.

(careful, think before you make an ignorant comment about starting a sentence with AND)
 

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JRTinMA said:
My point has never changed, your comments have been pointless. Maybe it was just two different results separated by years and no deception. I never said its fact they did or didn't lie, I offered an alternate option and presented some variables. The OP mentioned the a movie and you offer up a Times article and say its all you need. You never saw the movie and your commenting ignorantly while having no clue about the context and telling me I have no point. And I'm an idiot for engaging a troll.

(careful, think before you make an ignorant comment about starting a sentence with AND)

This is why I introduced the Times article in the first place - here is the relevant section:
Let’s start with the training camp that morning in Solvang, California, when they left the team hotel and rode out into the valley until they reached the team cars. It was January 1999. He was 22 years old and about to embark on his second season with the US Postal team. “Okay, Christian,” they said. “This is what we want you to do.”

It was a 10km time trial. His instructions were to ride flat-out from the valley to the top of the hill, where a doctor would be waiting to take a sample of his blood. The blood would be tested for lactate. The numbers would be posted on a chart. The chart would tell the tale of the rider’s fitness and potential. Every member of the squad was being assessed.

They were all tested on the same course, the same morning, by the same people.
You offered an "alternate option and presented some variables" - I offered the facts.

And I will remember not to start comments with and.
 
Dr. Maserati said:
This is why I introduced the Times article in the first place - here is the relevant section:


They were all tested on the same course, the same morning, by the same people.
You offered an "alternate option and presented some variables" - I offered the facts.

And I will remember not to start comments with and.

My last attempt to help you. He became suspicious after he was tested again years later. I believe it was when he was at CSC. See its not referenced in the article but its quite clear in the movie. A lesson in being narrow minded.
 

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JRTinMA said:
My last attempt to help you. He became suspicious after he was tested again years later. I believe it was when he was at CSC. See its not referenced in the article but its quite clear in the movie. A lesson in being narrow minded.

Wow - you mean they (the 'Postals') didn't reveal their deceit at the time and he only found out later - thats just mean.


The OP should have made that clearer in their 'opening post'.... O, wait:
Neworld said:
Has anyone seen the movie........

As CVV explains in the movie his level was above LA's and so he thought I'll never beat or be in the same league as LA. I guess he thought at that point he'd be a domestique forever. Later when he was with CSC he learned that his Lactate (a reproducible value) was lower than reported at Postal. ....

NW
 
JRT, I must say that you're coming across as someone who is so stubborn and will do anything, but admit you are wrong. Your position is untenable, yet you are clinging to it and going around in circles, all in the name of defending something that was completely wrong.
 
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JayZee said:
Okay, that made me giggle. Legal action? Really? You mean CVV didn't know what his Lactate level was? Since it is, as you suggest, reproducible, I find it hard to believe CVV didn't know what his was. I like CVV, but I don't think it was some doubts about his Lactate levels that was keeping him down. Top 10 guy, but not a Tour winner.

Embrace VandeVelde all you want but he came from the same USA Cycling program that "nurtured" Lance. He knew the score before Postal and his results since then are somewhat suspect IMO.
 
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Neworld said:
My question is: does CVV have a legal case that LA bullied or impaired his ability to achieve the success and monetary rewards by lying to CVV about his values? ....Or is this just another negative ethical scenario surrounding Lance?

NW

misrepresentation that impairs a person's ability to pursue his or her profession, will almost always be actionable. Several possible causes of action occur to me off the top of my head: tortuous interference of a contract, defamation, and possible breach of contract.

i would certainly talk to CVV if he came to me and look everything over. You can never say outright without looking things over first that there is nothing there (and you can't really say it then either, in most instances, unless the suit would clearly be barred for some reason; the best you can usually say is that it wouldn't be worth the effort to pursue it and/or the chance of a successful outcome is slim).

my biggest concerns at the outset are the amount of time that has lapsed since the misrepresentation was discovered and the commencement of the potential suit, and whether there were any actual, demonstrable damages sustained. if the time lapsed is too great, the suit will be time-barred; if there are no demonstrable damages, potential case strategies will be severally restricted, and the stress and expense of the suit probably would not justify pursuing it (however, even winning nominal defamation cases can mean a lot to the person who's reputation has been tarnished--the call is always the client's).
 

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JRTinMA said:
You finally read the OP. Progress.
I read it when it was posted - read it again when you started going 'Postal' - I even pointed out how the OP actually does not say 'who' altered the test.

No, you made no progress.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
I read it when it was posted - read it again when you started going 'Postal' - I even pointed out how the OP actually does not say 'who' altered the test.

No, you made no progress.

Hopefully neither of you believe that Christian VandeVelde with his ripe family history wouldn't know his own values? These guys were exposed to this stuff as juniors and know their former amateur teammate's results in relation to theirs. Anything out of the ordinary would raise a flag to the informed pro.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Wow - you mean they (the 'Postals') didn't reveal their deceit at the time and he only found out later - thats just mean.


The OP should have made that clearer in their 'opening post'.... O, wait:

Thank you Doc. I was waiting for JRT and his superior literary dissecting skills to pick up the fact that in fact, in 1999, CVV did ride for a US based team called US POSTAL, that I referenced in the original OP. I provided this background info for any of the readership who have yet to watch the movie.

I am not trying to start a LACTgate thread or anything like that. I was wondering what people thought about how a lie, based on science like a VO2, could affect a riders professional career, mentation for winning/losing ...

All the rest of JRTs commentary is simply argumentative and shows nothing more than fastidiousness of grammar. Is that really the intent of this Forum, for us to insult each others' typographical errors and grammar?

I would love to listen/read anything that anyone could add to this thread, but please add something, and not just rancor.

NW
 
Neworld said:
Thank you Doc. I was waiting for JRT and his superior literary dissecting skills to pick up the fact that in fact, in 1999, CVV did ride for a US based team called US POSTAL, that I referenced in the original OP. I provided this background info for any of the readership who have yet to watch the movie.

I am not trying to start a LACTgate thread or anything like that. I was wondering what people thought about how a lie, based on science like a VO2, could affect a riders professional career, mentation for winning/losing ...

All the rest of JRTs commentary is simply argumentative and shows nothing more than fastidiousness of grammar. Is that really the intent of this Forum, for us to insult each others' typographical errors and grammar?

I would love to listen/read anything that anyone could add to this thread, but please add something, and not just rancor.


NW

Did I ever suggest CVV didn't ride for US Postal? Nope.

A science Like VO2? Its not a science and you never mentioned it once??? Your post was about Lactate, a metabolite, not a calculation like VO2.

Actually I said I could care less about grammar on a forum, read it in my post.

Back under the bridge troll. Even you must know he has no legal recourse. It was just another trolling LA hate thread.
 
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JRTinMA said:
Did I ever suggest CVV didn't ride for US Postal? Nope.

A science Like VO2? Its not a science and you never mentioned it once??? Your post was about Lactate, a metabolite, not a calculation like VO2.

Actually I said I could care less about grammar on a forum, read it in my post.

Back under the bridge troll. Even you must know he has no legal recourse. It was just another trolling LA hate thread.

See my post # 38 about VO2 Max.

Again, please tell us all what 'added value' are you offering this thread. IMO you're just being adversarial and argumentative. This thread is about CVV, not LA. You're making it into a LA thread...that's your agenda.

Maybe you're a trojan troll?

NW
 
Neworld said:
See my post # 38 about VO2 Max.

Again, please tell us all what 'added value' are you offering this thread. IMO you're just being adversarial and argumentative. This thread is about CVV, not LA. You're making it into a LA thread...that's your agenda.

Maybe you're a trojan troll?

NW

Post 38 was numbing, it mentioned VO2 but it was not about it.

I didn't start this the poser Dr. M did, he commented on me. You brought up LA 10 times in the OP and your trying to suggest I am turning this into an LA thread, please.
 
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JRTinMA said:
Post 38 was numbing, it mentioned VO2 but it was not about it.

I didn't start this the poser Dr. M did, he commented on me. You brought up LA 10 times in the OP and your trying to suggest I am turning this into an LA thread, please.


JJ,
LA was the one who lied to CVV no? You read the article and saw the movie right? How is it possible to start the OP, state some background without mentioning LA and how he lied? LA was the team captain of USP right? He partly owned that team right? How should the stories description been laid out..."CVV race the 10Km test and had a lower Lactate than __. __ lied about his lactate to hide the fact that despite being the team leader of team ___ there were potentially stronger riders than him."

Again, what are you adding to the thread? Give us something, what added value are you to this thread? You may want to start your own thread.

NW
 
Neworld said:
JJ,
LA was the one who lied to CVV no? You read the article and saw the movie right? How is it possible to start the OP, state some background without mentioning LA and how he lied? LA was the team captain of USP right? He partly owned that team right? How should the stories description been laid out..."CVV race the 10Km test and had a lower Lactate than __. __ lied about his lactate to hide the fact that despite being the team leader of team ___ there were potentially stronger riders than him."

Again, what are you adding to the thread? Give us something, what added value are you to this thread? You may want to start your own thread.

NW

Yeah, he could call it something catchy like 'I don't think Dr. Maserati is even a real doctor'.
 
Neworld said:
JJ,
LA was the one who lied to CVV no? You read the article and saw the movie right? How is it possible to start the OP, state some background without mentioning LA and how he lied? LA was the team captain of USP right? He partly owned that team right? How should the stories description been laid out..."CVV race the 10Km test and had a lower Lactate than __. __ lied about his lactate to hide the fact that despite being the team leader of team ___ there were potentially stronger riders than him."

Again, what are you adding to the thread? Give us something, what added value are you to this thread? You may want to start your own thread.

NW

I'm going to take them in order so try and follow along.

If you believe CVVs unsubstantiated claim then yes LA lied. In turn you must believe every doper who says they never doped including LA.

Yes, I read the article and saw the movie.

Again this was just a claim by CVV. No proof other than his claims. Its not like LA came on and said, yes i duped CVV.

In 99 he was the captain of the tour squad, i wont split hairs here.

In 99 he did not own the team. This is a lie.

What am I adding? I made a simple response as to why things may not be as they appear. You and your fellowship friends can't reason, you're narrow, you need me.
 
JRTinMA said:
Post 38 was numbing, it mentioned VO2 but it was not about it.

I didn't start this the poser Dr. M did, he commented on me. You brought up LA 10 times in the OP and your trying to suggest I am turning this into an LA thread, please.

Good God man, what is your problem? You aren't adding anything or even discussing anything in your many mindless and useless posts in this thread. Can you go to PM's with Doc M. if you want to keep fighting with him please?

If you don't mind me asking, you are probably around age 16 no? Because you seem way more concerned with trying to be "right" about everything rather than discussing anything of substance, which is a distinct trait of adolescent males.