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Blood Sweat and Gears - CVV interview

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May 8, 2009
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buckwheat said:
The legal action thing is a little silly.

It is just another anecdote that shows what a complete scumbag Pharmstrong is.

Regarding your last sentence. Pharmstrong isn't even a top 30 guy without PED's.
That's already been proven.

Agree, at least at his current vintage. At the height of his career I would give LA top 10 talent without doping.
 

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scribe said:
Sort of like..... LeMond? (lol, this is almost too easy)
Its rather obvious that your history of the sport is confined to the post 1999 period.

Can you tell me which races CVV was allowed be leader at USPS?
Or perhaps after the test he beat LA the management said: -"your numbers are pretty good - you could make a decent domestique for Lance".

Also - if you are looking to learn more about teamates helping others I would suggest the TdF 1985 -where a clearly better LeMond waited for his leader Hinault.
 
May 18, 2009
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velosopher54 said:
No one rode for Levi in the Tour after LA failed. Kinda telling seeings how LA was team leader. It seemed to me Retirement Shack was every man for himself, thus Horners high placing.

Back to CVV, I read somewhere that he had a mental block about winning for himself and it wasn't until his high placing in the 2008 Tour that he had the confidence. Could this be from being a domestique for so many years? This is a serious question, I don't have the answer but don't really want to be called a *** for asking either.

Yeah, kinda like being institutionalized. :rolleyes:

Fortunately his mental block has kept Yardstick from being fodder on CN forums. If he would have rode to his physical potential he would have won many times in a row in a more dominant fashion than LA!

That's probably OK though because Yardstick didn't have cancer.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
Its rather obvious that your history of the sport is confined to the post 1999 period.

Can you tell me which races CVV was allowed be leader at USPS?
Or perhaps after the test he beat LA the management said: -"your numbers are pretty good - you could make a decent domestique for Lance".

Also - if you are looking to learn more about teamates helping others I would suggest the TdF 1985 -where a clearly better LeMond waited for his leader Hinault.

What was he doing out ahead of his 'leader' to begin with?
 
I'm curious as to what the forumites take is on CVV's career - cleanish for most of his career, then doped up for his '08 4th place? Lim was the trainer on Garmin that year. Granted it could have been rice cakes and the gluten-free diet alone. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how he could have remained cleanish on the USPS teams given the many allegations about that team. Regardless, he was always a solid mountain domestique.
 

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scribe said:
What was he doing out ahead of his 'leader' to begin with?

I realise this seems odd when all you know is the 'Big Blue Train' leading up to the mountain - as I said instead of being 'scribe', I think some time reading of the history of the sport would be beneficial.
 
May 18, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
I realise this seems odd when all you know is the 'Big Blue Train' leading up to the mountain - as I said instead of being 'scribe', I think some time reading of the history of the sport would be beneficial.

Really? I'm trying to think of another time that late in a GT in a mountain stage a domestique got up the road and was in virtual yellow, and had to be told by team management to slow up.

Maybe right about now is when you start talking about the 99 samples. :rolleyes:
 
BikeCentric said:
I'm curious as to what the forumites take is on CVV's career - cleanish for most of his career, then doped up for his '08 4th place? Lim was the trainer on Garmin that year. Granted it could have been rice cakes and the gluten-free diet alone. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how he could have remained cleanish on the USPS teams given the many allegations about that team. Regardless, he was always a solid mountain domestique.
The thing is, when he came in the top 25 or whatever with CSC, everyone thought he was still underperforming, considering the talent he had. It was like "Oh, at last he's done a decent Tour, but it looked like he was going to be so much better than this when he was young". I'd say top 10 is about where people expected him to be when he started to show up in the US Postal team roster. I don't think he could possibly be clean at US Postal and I remain sceptical about his being clean in 2008-2010, but in this case doping doesn't tell the whole story. It's (almost) all in Christian's head.
 

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ChrisE said:
Really? I'm trying to think of another time that late in a GT in a mountain stage a domestique got up the road and was in virtual yellow, and had to be told by team management to slow up.

Maybe right about now is when you start talking about the 99 samples. :rolleyes:
You must be used of the post 99 racing of dropping the leader at the base of the climb - its ok, Scribe thought the same.
Of course LeMond did what he was told - for his team and his leader.


As for the rest of your post - always heed your leader.
 
Jan 27, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Its rather obvious that your history of the sport is confined to the post 1999 period.

Can you tell me which races CVV was allowed be leader at USPS?
Or perhaps after the test he beat LA the management said: -"your numbers are pretty good - you could make a decent domestique for Lance".

Also - if you are looking to learn more about teamates helping others I would suggest the TdF 1985 -where a clearly better LeMond waited for his leader Hinault.

Yes and in 1996 when Ullrich waited and made sure Riis won, when most observers knew he probably could have won that year too.

NW
 
ChrisE said:
Maybe right about now is when you start talking about the 99 samples. :rolleyes:

Classic! But on to Lactategate...

Today marks a new level of LA hatin'. Today the Fellowship suggests that the Postals have manipulated LAC measurements so LA could win a threshold contest. This is big. I heard LA takes a Statin so he can win the Radio Shack cholesterol challenge each year...
 
JRTinMA said:
Classic! But on to Lactategate...

Today marks a new level of LA hatin'. Today the Fellowship suggests that the Postals have manipulated LAC measurements so LA could win a threshold contest. This is big. I heard LA takes a Statin so he can win the Radio Shack cholesterol challenge each year...
On the contrary, the whole point is that this is petty. Standard petty chicken**** stuff. It reinforces what we got from other LA stories, that's all.
 
Jan 27, 2010
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velosopher54 said:
Back to CVV, I read somewhere that he had a mental block about winning for himself and it wasn't until his high placing in the 2008 Tour that he had the confidence. Could this be from being a domestique for so many years? This is a serious question, I don't have the answer but don't really want to be called a *** for asking either.

Ok the legal implication sideways stab was a bit much. What about this mental 'block' and the perceived notion by other teams that you'll always just be a domestique?

Here is what I am trying to suggest. The Lactate test didn't start until when... the late 90's? And now there is so much objective data a up coming rider can accumulate when can help or HINDER him from not only making it into the pros but establishing your 'pecking order'.

Say in scenario 1: there are 2 riders with equal Lactate levels and VO2 Max's. One is Jens Voigt and the other is C. Knees. Who are you going to take. Jens of course that guys will hunt you down in winter with one leg. Easy.

In scenario 2: there is CVV and rider 'X' They have equal tenacity and VO2 Max's, and for the sake of argument all other cycling attributes equal, but CVV's Lactate is higher (Worse) and 'X'. You'd take Rider 'X'. But what if CVV's known, best Lactate was Falsely Poor and every team knew about it, CVV had no reason to think it was as good as it was, and he 'realized' that without an equal Lactate he'd never be anything but a domestique. Clearly one's mental psyche can affect their performance.

Then 4-5 yrs later CVV retests his Lactate and 'Sheesh' its better than the guy who won 7 TdF's and "I better VO2 Max than LA" as well. All of a sudden CVV may start to believe in himself, but it takes time to change one's own belief. Ergo, CVV may be a late bloomer for that reason. Just a possibility that's all.

NW
 
May 18, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
You must be used of the post 99 racing of dropping the leader at the base of the climb - its ok, Scribe thought the same.
Of course LeMond did what he was told - for his team and his leader.


As for the rest of your post - always heed your leader.

I reread my post several times and I just cannot see how you would conclude that I think such a thing. Oh well, I am sure you realize things about me that I have yet to comprehend. :D

The youtube link wouldn't play, but the comments were interesting. Are you one of those posters?
 
Jan 27, 2010
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JRTinMA said:
Classic! But on to Lactategate...

Today marks a new level of LA hatin'. Today the Fellowship suggests that the Postals have manipulated LAC measurements so LA could win a threshold contest. This is big. I heard LA takes a Statin so he can win the Radio Shack cholesterol challenge each year...

Its not LA hat'n. Watch the video...maybe even after seeing CVV on live recorded video giving his testimony you'd like to come back and post a reason why CVV is a liar or why he manufactured such an obscene comment. Or maybe you'll come back and say "Damn, what team leader (LA) would do such a stupid narcissistic thing". Oh ya, only LA.

NW
 
Mar 4, 2010
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BikeCentric said:
I'm curious as to what the forumites take is on CVV's career - cleanish for most of his career, then doped up for his '08 4th place? Lim was the trainer on Garmin that year. Granted it could have been rice cakes and the gluten-free diet alone. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how he could have remained cleanish on the USPS teams given the many allegations about that team. Regardless, he was always a solid mountain domestique.

Maybe CVV wasn't juiced at USPS because LA was afraid that the lactate wonder would top him? :D
 
hrotha said:
On the contrary, the whole point is that this is petty. Standard petty chicken**** stuff. It reinforces what we got from other LA stories, that's all.

And your basing this on a light hearted comment made during a hard hitting cycling movie?!? The OP or somebody early on suggests that lactate is reproducible, this is flawed. Running serial lactates are hardly reproducible let alone a span of years. During this period of time lactate went from a dilution based method to a direct reading ISE. Now I don't know if the same method was used for both or not but I can spot piling on when I see it. Its very possible "Standard petty chicken ****" as you say or it could just be nonsense since there are too many variables. Either way my point is accurate, some people will jump on anything regardless of the facts.

I'm going to be kind and give CVV the title Super Domestique or how about Lefttenant but he has never had team leader seeds. There that settles that.
 
Neworld said:
Its not LA hat'n. Watch the video...maybe even after seeing CVV on live recorded video giving his testimony you'd like to come back and post a reason why CVV is a liar or why he manufactured such an obscene comment. Or maybe you'll come back and say "Damn, what team leader (LA) would do such a stupid narcissistic thing". Oh ya, only LA.

NW

Sorry bra, I thought we were talking about the Blood, Sweat and Gears Movie which I saw and thoroughly enjoyed. I didn't know you had testimony! I stand corrected, what a narcissistic do*che.
 

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JRTinMA said:
And your basing this on a light hearted comment made during a hard hitting cycling movie?!? The OP or somebody early on suggests that lactate is reproducible, this is flawed. Running serial lactates are hardly reproducible let alone a span of years. During this period of time lactate went from a dilution based method to a direct reading ISE. Now I don't know if the same method was used for both or not but I can spot piling on when I see it. Its very possible "Standard petty chicken ****" as you say or it could just be nonsense since there are too many variables. Either way my point is accurate, some people will jump on anything regardless of the facts.

I'm going to be kind and give CVV the title Super Domestique or how about Lefttenant but he has never had team leader seeds. There that settles that.
I realise you think this is all new - and some 'forum conspiracy' - it was well known about years ago.

No, the rider with the best figures that morning is the young Belgian-sounding Chicagoan, Christian Vande Velde. So you can imagine the howls at management level when the doctor arrives with the results. “Oh Christ! Who’s going to tell Lance?”

So the result is “massaged” so that Lance can feel good about himself, and Vande Velde is cheated; cheated of the buzz that comes with winning; cheated of knowing that on that day in 1999, he had more physical gifts than the man who would go on to win seven Tours de France. And for the next eight years, that’s mostly how it is.

On that day in 1999 - CVV was better than Lance, and the management 'massaged' the figures.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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ChrisE said:
Really? I'm trying to think of another time that late in a GT in a mountain stage a domestique got up the road and was in virtual yellow, and had to be told by team management to slow up.

Maybe right about now is when you start talking about the 99 samples. :rolleyes:

lol! Classic.
 
May 18, 2009
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hrotha said:
On the contrary, the whole point is that this is petty. Standard petty chicken**** stuff. It reinforces what we got from other LA stories, that's all.

It also suggests Yardstick would've been bigger than LA except for his "mental block". :rolleyes:

Yardstick crushing the field in GTs by 10 minutes! Mentally he knew he wasn't ready to deal with that scrutiny so mentally he resigned himself to be a domestique which in turn caused him not to dominate GT's which in turn....

Kinda like a loser's do-loop.
 
JRTinMA said:
And your basing this on a light hearted comment made during a hard hitting cycling movie?!? The OP or somebody early on suggests that lactate is reproducible, this is flawed. Running serial lactates are hardly reproducible let alone a span of years. During this period of time lactate went from a dilution based method to a direct reading ISE. Now I don't know if the same method was used for both or not but I can spot piling on when I see it. Its very possible "Standard petty chicken ****" as you say or it could just be nonsense since there are too many variables. Either way my point is accurate, some people will jump on anything regardless of the facts.

I'm going to be kind and give CVV the title Super Domestique or how about Lefttenant but he has never had team leader seeds. There that settles that.
I'm basing this on several little stories about LA that all point to the same conclusion. Each one of them, in isolation, might not mean much, but when you have the story about CVV, the one with his former mechanic, the bits with Andreu... It's hard not to come up with a fairly well defined picture.
ChrisE said:
It also suggests Yardstick would've been bigger than LA except for his "mental block".
It doesn't, unless this test is the be all and end all of measuring potential. This story says more about LA than about CVV.
 
Dr. Maserati said:
I realise you think this is all new - and some 'forum conspiracy' - it was well known about years ago.

Thanks for telling me what I know, I am aware of the article thank you.

On that day in 1999 - CVV was better than Lance, and the management 'massaged' the figures.

This according to CVV, he's a little bitter and if he is as clean as it seems maybe he has a right to be. Do you think it would have mattered in his career if he won the lactate contest? Would he still be pack fodder or would have a won a tour and be the subject of doping rumors on this board today? Its hard to imagine a winner not getting a beating from the Fellowship.

Even you must chuckle a little when you read the title to that story, I still do and its been two years. I realize CVV didn't pick the title but its hard to take the columnist or the editor serious after that heading. Surly with your transcendent knowledge you can see the fail.
 
hrotha said:
I'm basing this on several little stories about LA that all point to the same conclusion. Each one of them, in isolation, might not mean much, but when you have the story about CVV, the one with his former mechanic, the bits with Andreu... It's hard not to come up with a fairly well defined picture.

It doesn't, unless this test is the be all and end all of measuring potential. This story says more about LA than about CVV.

I have a well developed sense of the character of LA but enough is enough. I suspect the OP should just go back under the bridge where he belongs.

Night gents, its trivia night at the pub and unlike racing a bike I rule there suckas. :D
 

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JRTinMA said:
This according to CVV, he's a little bitter and if he is as clean as it seems maybe he has a right to be. Do you think it would have mattered in his career if he won the lactate contest? Would he still be pack fodder or would have a won a tour and be the subject of doping rumors on this board today? Its hard to imagine a winner not getting a beating from the Fellowship.

Even you must chuckle a little when you read the title to that story, I still do and its been two years. I realize CVV didn't pick the title but its hard to take the columnist or the editor serious after that heading. Surly with your transcendent knowledge you can see the fail.
No - what makes me chucle is how you pretend that you knew about another article, confirming the story- as you wrote this earlier:
Today the Fellowship suggests that the Postals have manipulated LAC measurements so LA could win a threshold contest. This is big ...

CVV was 22 at the time - and everyone wants to know where they are against everybody else. I would be bitter to if my results were undermined for the sake of someones ego.

As for would it have mattered if he won the 'test' - you should know, it was in the linked article you read.