BMC in disarray?

[Lanark]

TJVG was not a big money investment but he shall become one and is not going that bad at the moment.

No, a million dollars isn't a lot of money.

 

[johnnycash]

TJVG was not a big money investment but he shall become one and is not going that bad at the moment.

He's doing a pretty bad job at hiding his frustrations about supporting a weak leader though. I like him and his attitude but his interviews are pretty transparent and his riding for Cadel in the Alps was not all that helpful.

But does he warrant a team to be built around him? not yet. BMC's DS should write off Cadel in this tour and just see what VG can do to Sky in the Alps.

I think Cadel's done now, harsh to say but i can't seem him challenging for a tour GC seriously again, at least he won one though.

 

[irongrl]

He's doing a pretty bad job at hiding his frustrations about supporting a weak leader though. I like him and his attitude but his interviews are pretty transparent and his riding for Cadel in the Alps was not all that helpful.

But does he warrant a team to be built around him? not yet. BMC's DS should write off Cadel in this tour and just see what VG can do to Sky in the Alps.

I think Cadel's done now, harsh to say but i can't seem him challenging for a tour GC seriously again, at least he won one though.

I agree-BMC should let VG ride for himself the rest of the tour and see how well he can go. I was hoping Cadel would win again, but it looks like he is done for this tour.

 

[zigmeister]

Van Garderens performances have been nowhere near good enough to think about overshadowing Evans. He did more harm than good on the stage that Evans attacked, he seemed more interested in showing everyone how strong he was than helping his team leader. Its the sort of thing that will come back to bite him.

Seriously? For a kid that is 23yrs old, he is putting a beat down on many of the "top riders" on the Tour.

He had to wait several times after he attacked, then Cadel tried to join him for that break away, then he couldn't even hold TJ's wheel?!?! TJ finally just gave up and kept waiting for Cadel who faded back into to Peloton.

TJ could have just ridden away from the Peloton and Sky without Cadel to a very high finish, or even victory on a Stage.

He beat Cadel in the Prologue, and the Invidual TT by nearly 40 seconds!!!!

TJ is better than Cadel...but he has to suck it up and help "defend" the current champion like a good boy.

The student has outperformed the "teacher"...time to give it up Cadel and give somebody who has an actual chance to win the TDF this year a shot.

But..that won't happen.

I don't know how long TJs contract is with BMC, but I can assure you, if next year he is with BMC at the Tour and he isn't the favorite and person they are supporting for an overall victory...he won't be with BMC much longer. TJs stock is going way up fast in the world of cycling. If other teams aren't trying to get that kid on their team and build a serious Grand Tour contender in the future, they are all stupid.

 

[Ferminal]

Van Garderen rides his first good mountain stage in two years and all of a sudden he's a major contender?

 

[maxmartin]

Oh BMC
Thor officially quit Olympics.

Will they keep buying more talented rider? (They already passed the opportunity of Nibali)

or they will sticking with what they are having now?( I heard a few old Liqui guys are coming in)

 

[hiero2]

He's doing a pretty bad job at hiding his frustrations about supporting a weak leader though. I like him and his attitude but his interviews are pretty transparent and his riding for Cadel in the Alps was not all that helpful.

But does he warrant a team to be built around him? not yet. BMC's DS should write off Cadel in this tour and just see what VG can do to Sky in the Alps.

I think Cadel's done now, harsh to say but i can't seem him challenging for a tour GC seriously again, at least he won one though.

Yup - I pretty much agree. TJ may, or may not, be frustrated with Cadel. Apparently Cadel has often ****ed off other riders. From the stories we hear, Cadel is not the most sympathetic and likable of riders. So I would not be surprised if the team environment were less than optimal.

I am glad Cadel finally got to win a Tour - but I've never pictured him as more than a one-tour winner. The only reason I cheer him on this year is because I like Wiggins even less.

My personal pref would be to see Taylor Phinney here, but TJ seems to be a tough and capable young man. He is doing a good job, and the GTs seem to fit his capacity so far. I am already looking forward to the next 2-3 years in the Tours.

 

[Clemson Cycling]

My personal pref would be to see Taylor Phinney here, but TJ seems to be a tough and capable young man. He is doing a good job, and the GTs seem to fit his capacity so far. I am already looking forward to the next 2-3 years in the Tours.

Phinney is never going to be a GC threat (though someone probably said that about one Bradley Wiggins at some point)

 

[Oldman]

Van Garderen knew exactly what he was doing
He must think he doesn't need to help his team leader any more, now he's ridden well in a stage or two.

And you know that how? You put too much credence into the 5 seconds of tape and Sherwen commentary on a stage where nothing else of consequence occurred.

 

[Marcuccio]

He beat Cadel in the Prologue, and the Invidual TT by nearly 40 seconds!!!!

TJ is better than Cadel...but he has to suck it up and help "defend" the current champion like a good boy.

The student has outperformed the "teacher"...time to give it up Cadel and give somebody who has an actual chance to win the TDF this year a shot.

Are you serious?

He 'out performs' his leader in 50% of one tour, and at 23 he's already better than Cadel, who in the past few years has not only won the WC, and the TdF, but podiumed several of them too..

So by your logic, he's better that PG, Thor, Hincapie etc?
Maybe BMC should just send him to the TdF solo next year then?
Imagine all the money they could save??

Is he talented? no doubt.
Is he over rated? I wouldn't go that far.
Is he the next big thing for the USA? possibly?
Is he better than Cadel? No.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

It seems not a lot of people are buying into the idea that the young kid did as young kids do and made a mistake as they went over the top? Specifically,, giving him the benefit of the doubt, his mistake was hesitating to make a decision. It takes 2 days to lambaste a decision, but only a second or two to make it: he's in the video looking at Evans, looking over his other shoulder, and then forward again.

To me at least, that looked like some kid in without experience, in a rapid fire situation, not a rebel kid trying to usurp control of the captain's chair.

 

[maxmartin]

Are you serious?


Is he better than Cadel? No.

Is he better than Cadel IN THIS TOUR?

yes, IF he can prove himself climbing better then Cadel in next two stages

 

[zigmeister]

Are you serious?

He 'out performs' his leader in 50% of one tour, and at 23 he's already better than Cadel, who in the past few years has not only won the WC, and the TdF, but podiumed several of them too..

So by your logic, he's better that PG, Thor, Hincapie etc?
Maybe BMC should just send him to the TdF solo next year then?
Imagine all the money they could save??

Is he talented? no doubt.
Is he over rated? I wouldn't go that far.
Is he the next big thing for the USA? possibly?
Is he better than Cadel? No.

Not logic, reality. TJ is the best rider BMC has this year in the Tour. Just like Froome would smoke Wiggins in the mountains if allowed, TJ would just ride away and leave Cadel hanging on with the other also rans this year.

 

[rata de sentina]

Never before has Evans had as much help in the mountains as this year. I keep hearing those clowns banging on about BMC being a team for the flats blah blah but for Evans having a teammate with him in the mountains is a novelty. Unfortunately Evans is off a bit this year and hasn't benefited much from the help apart from limiting his losses. TVG has been doing a good job but it is too early to say whether he is in better form than Evans, the 3rd week always brings surprises.

 

[Marcuccio]

TJ may have (so far) out performed cuddles in this tour, but that's only 1 race. I think he's a great talent and think BMC have a good long term prospect.

BMC's biggest mistake I think was thinking that Cadel would have it a lot easier in the mountain stages and have control of the race from day dot. Wiggins and Froome were so good on that ITT that it set them up so much better than BMC estimated. I'm sure BMC didn't expect to be over 3 mins down after less than half the tour was done..

It was a perfect storm which blew them away so far :

- Wiggins smoked Cuddles in the TT.
- Wiggins did the job on the flat stages to cement his superiority in the standings.
- Cuddles has so far made no in roads when people thought he would.
- Sky look totally in control, so while its boring for the neutral out there, it's playing right in to their hands.

Tacks on the road one day, oil the next day ... what's next - snipers? LOL

 

[Marcuccio]

Never before has Evans had as much help in the mountains as this year. I keep hearing those clowns banging on about BMC being a team for the flats blah blah but for Evans having a teammate with him in the mountains is a novelty. Unfortunately Evans is off a bit this year and hasn't benefited much from the help apart from limiting his losses. TVG has been doing a good job but it is too early to say whether he is in better form than Evans, the 3rd week always brings surprises.

Yeah, I got the feeling that things were off for Cadel from the start.
Ah well - you can't win it every year.
Now they just gotta get in to Paris and give Big George a nice farewell...

 

[JA.Tri]

TJ

TJ may have made a mistake or deliberately ignored Cadel??? Give him the benefit of the doubt.

Is he a better rider than Cadel? Overall? Not yet. In this tour? Maybe, but yet to be confirmed. TJ has ridden well, but not without some climbing (Stage 7) vulnerability. He certainly has more than a little to learn in terms of riding support when the nominated leader is having a bad day (while he quite evidently was having a great day).

TJ certainly can win the Maillot Blanche, getting a podium is a little more difficult and TJ is yet to demonstrate great resilience over three weeks (which he may do this tour). Cadel can still podium and right now he has a greater chance than TJ of doing so.

Due to the lack of climbing depth on BMC, TJ can, if he concentrates provide great support to Cadel. Therefore while I do not suggest TJ go all out for himself, I advocate that TJ provide decent support to Cadel while conserving himself and MB.

TJ had accepted that this was a learning experience and while an excellent rider and great future prospect, sacrificing Cadel's immediate podium chances for TJ to "test himself" seems a little premature.

 

[Ferminal]

Van Garderen has had two poor days, Evans has had one... As such Evans is ahead of him, and would be even if TJVG rode on at La Toussuire. Unless Evans drops on a penultimate climb, it is unlikely that Van Garderen would finish higher. So until that happens Van Garderen has to support, to ensure BMC get the best overall result.

 

[Marcuccio]

I agree with both those two posts above..

 

[JA.Tri]

Cadel's bad day

I recon BMC had a plan that was put in place with Cadel's blessing. The initial foundations were well laid and executed with Cadel not seeming to be troubled on the initial sections of the ascent. I suspect that he may well have been able to stay with the selection if he had not attacked. Certainly I believe he would have lost less than a minute.

Anyway Cadel attacks (maybe with reservations, maybe thinking he was ok, maybe thinking I have to do this regardless) and then after a minute it appeared to me that he "died" and he thinks "I really stuffed that"!

The impression though was BMC were committed to a plan and that Cadel carried through with reservations but determined to try (rather than "Do" to quote Yoda ).

 

[movingtarget]

Van Garderen has had two poor days, Evans has had one... As such Evans is ahead of him, and would be even if TJVG rode on at La Toussuire. Unless Evans drops on a penultimate climb, it is unlikely that Van Garderen would finish higher. So until that happens Van Garderen has to support, to ensure BMC get the best overall result.

Agree. I have seen riders with more potential than Van Garderen never win a grand tour. It's early days for him. Domestiques are not under as much mental pressure as the team leaders. He has not experienced that yet.

 

[Marcuccio]

Exactly.
Next year is a different story though.

If Cadel passes on the TdF to do the Giro and maybe the Vuelta, will TJ become the focal point, or someone else? I thought for ages that problem was solved with the possibility of Nibali, but that's obviously not going to happen now..

 

[movingtarget]

Exactly.
Next year is a different story though.

If Cadel passes on the TdF to do the Giro and maybe the Vuelta, will TJ become the focal point, or someone else? I thought for ages that problem was solved with the possibility of Nibali, but that's obviously not going to happen now..

Unless they buy a better rider which is doubtful it will be him. They believe in his talent. Nibali may end up at Astana as Kreuziger still struggles to make the podium of grand tours, don't think the Italian teams can afford Nibali. Not sure where else he could ago apart from BMC and they are already paying for Evans, Hushovd and Gilbert.

 

[Yingge]

Unless they buy a better rider which is doubtful it will be him. They believe in his talent. Nibali may end up at Astana as Kreuziger still struggles to make the podium of grand tours, don't think the Italian teams can afford Nibali. Not sure where else he could ago apart from BMC and they are already paying for Evans, Hushovd and Gilbert.

I'd be surprised if BMC go on a spending spree this year like they did late last year. Rhis hasn't seen much return at the podium this year and might be reluctant to open his wallet so far again. Whilst results have not been forthcoming to match the signings, BMC have certainly received their share of the publicity, and in this day and age, Rhis will be weighing that up when he looks at his wallet.

 

[movingtarget]

I'd be surprised if BMC go on a spending spree this year like they did late last year. Rhis hasn't seen much return at the podium this year and might be reluctant to open his wallet so far again. Whilst results have not been forthcoming to match the signings, BMC have certainly received their share of the publicity, and in this day and age, Rhis will be weighing that up when he looks at his wallet.

If Gilbert or Evans can do something at the Olympics or Worlds it may not be such a bad year. I thought it was a gamble buying Hushovd and as it's turned out, neither Thor or Gilbert have hit their straps this year. With Hushovd it sounds more like poor health than anything else. Be interesting to see if Gilbert can dominate again in next year's Ardenne classics.