BMC Soigneur caught with 195 does of EPO

[hrotha]

On one hand it is the most consistent Tour, hell Grand Tour that I've seen Cadel do. On the other I'd like to think that it was one of the more clean ones in recent years.

Personally I have an easier time accepting that he's going to win this Tour clean, rather than believing he came 2nd in 2007 and 2008 without any special "preparation". But we'll need another 3-5 years to know where exactly along the way to the Clean Utopia we are right now.

 

[goggalor]

Gerard Vroomen, director of Cervelo was on dutch tele 1-2 days ago and he certainly wasn't cheering for a team that's basically the same as Phonak.

Maybe he's busy cheering for "US Postal 2.0".

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I'll say it here: Cadel Evans, first clean Tour de France winner since Greg LeMond.

Sure. That is why Evans is riding for Andy Rhis and Phonak 2.0. Evans did not even query Slipstream for an offer when he left Lotto, and Slipstream had a pile of cash from Wiggo's departure. Instead he chose a team with even less GT support than his previous team. That does not happen by accident.

 

[blackcat]

Slipstream are one of the dirtiest teams in the peloton. They jhust have great clean PR

 

[Lanark]

Gerard Vroomen, director of Cervelo was on dutch tele 1-2 days ago and he certainly wasn't cheering for a team that's basically the same as Phonak.

That was pretty funny yeah. Evans has ridden for some of the dirtiest teams this sport has ever seen, finishing ahead of proven dopers in the past and barely being beaten by them, there is no way he has been clean, and there is no reason a clean rider would go to a team lead by Rhiis and Lelangue.

I believe the peloton has cleaned up quite a bit the last 2 or so years, at least the performances on the major mountains seem to suggest that, but I highly doubt it's so clean you can win the Tour without doping.

 

[goggalor]

Why wouldn't he go to Slipstream if he wanted to, uh, do well in GTs? Vaughters has turned much weaker riders than him into near podium finishers.

 

[Ferminal]

Slipstream are one of the dirtiest teams in the peloton. They jhust have great clean PR

I have faith in Tommy D, not much in the others though.

Sure. That is why Evans is riding for Andy Rhis and Phonak 2.0. Evans did not even query Slipstream for an offer when he left Lotto, and Slipstream had a pile of cash from Wiggo's departure. Instead he chose a team with even less GT support than his previous team. That does not happen by accident.

Not sure why he would choose to go to a sprint and classics team (hello Pharma Lotto), with powerful management and other voices in the team to compete with (Millar).

BMC virtually gave him complete control in order to do whatever is necessary to be a high achiever. Even if we pretend they aren't Phonak and doping isn't an issue, it was still probably a better choice for him, ahead of anything else apart from going to a GC powerhouse team under Riis or the Hog.

 

[Cervelo77]

I love coming to the clinic. Even when a guy worked with Sassi for 10 years he's still suspect. If Cadel is suspect, then I guess there is not much hope for the rest of the GC contenders.

 

[blackcat]

Sassi was working with Basso and asked for his pledge to ride clean, and look where he was in 2010. No one is clean Cervelo. None at the pointy end.

Like Jaksche said, he would get dropped riding over a bridge if he was not charged.

 

[AeroAdvantage]

I'll say it here: Cadel Evans, first clean Tour de France winner since Greg LeMond.

Yes. I will second your analogy, and a very worthy winner of the 2011 Tour De France.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Not sure why he would choose to go to a sprint and classics team (hello Pharma Lotto), with powerful management and other voices in the team to compete with (Millar).

BMC virtually gave him complete control in order to do whatever is necessary to be a high achiever. Even if we pretend they aren't Phonak and doping isn't an issue, it was still probably a better choice for him, ahead of anything else apart from going to a GC powerhouse team under Riis or the Hog.

Say what? What did Evans get at BMC that he did not have at Lotto? The GT support of the two teams is about equal, with the edge given to Lotto. Slipstream on the other hand is stacked with riders who could be superdomestiques in the mountains. And Slipstream had guaranteed entry to grand tours. Evans tired himself out last year performing in the spring so that BMC would get a Giro invite, and he arrived at the Giro tired. On Slipstream he probably would have won that Giro.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Sassi was working with Basso and asked for his pledge to ride clean, and look where he was in 2010. No one is clean Cervelo. None at the pointy end.

Let me guess. You measured the jawlines and head bumps of the Garmin riders.

 

[D-Queued]

I'll say it here: Cadel Evans, first clean Tour de France winner since Greg LeMond.

I dunno.

Peeps bin sayin dat bout Prance fer years.

You can say what you want. Whether it sticks or not, or seems like an educated appraisal, is out of your control.

Dave.

 

[Boeing]

HHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

interesting nonetheless today

 

[Velodude]

Sure. That is why Evans is riding for Andy Rhis and Phonak 2.0. Evans did not even query Slipstream for an offer when he left Lotto, and Slipstream had a pile of cash from Wiggo's departure. Instead he chose a team with even less GT support than his previous team. That does not happen by accident.

Maybe the Slipstream team gave due consideration but voted with the thumbs down solely because they did not want to drink with Evans!

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Maybe the Slipstream team gave due consideration but voted with the thumbs down solely because they did not want to drink with Evans!

Nope. Vaughters said that he would have liked to know that Evans was on the market. Evans' people never contacted him.

Evans' manager is Tony Rominger, the same man who talked Saiz into reestablishing his relationship with Dr. Fuentes after Saiz broke off the relationship after Heras tested positive. It seems clear that Rominger looks out for more than the dollar values in his contracts.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Slipstream are one of the dirtiest teams in the peloton. They jhust have great clean PR

You really think so? Honest question, actually.

 

[Ferminal]

Say what? What did Evans get at BMC that he did not have at Lotto? The GT support of the two teams is about equal, with the edge given to Lotto. Slipstream on the other hand is stacked with riders who could be superdomestiques in the mountains. And Slipstream had guaranteed entry to grand tours. Evans tired himself out last year performing in the spring so that BMC would get a Giro invite, and he arrived at the Giro tired. On Slipstream he probably would have won that Giro.

2009 Tour, after that it was impossible to stay at Lotto. What exactly happened may be Clinic related, but it's clear there was a falling out.

BMC was a nothing pro-Conti team, which Evans turned into a major pro-Conti team, and then a World Tour team. Rihs, Och and Lelangue basically gave him ultimate freedom in the team, and did everything they could to support his efforts. I'm not sure there was another team in the 2009 transfer season which could have provided this to Evans. I'm not sure why he would buy out his Pharma Lotto contract, to go to Slipstream which would be less money (than both BMC and Pharma Lotto) and could have some of the same problems which dogged him at previous teams. As for the timeline, Evans was looking for a team at the Tour, I think that's when they first got in contact with BMC, he signed in August I believe, the Wiggins saga was far from over at that point.

The 2010 Giro, they had the invite secured quite early, the Tour invite came later. Evans always rode the Ardennes hard, as one of the best classics riders that's what you expect. He simply didn't see how much that preparation would be detrimental to his GT two weeks later. A bit naive, when the same thing happened in 2009.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

BMC was a nothing pro-Conti team, which Evans turned into a major pro-Conti team, and then a World Tour team. Rihs, Och and Lelangue basically gave him ultimate freedom in the team, and did everything they could to support his efforts. I'm not sure there was another team in the 2009 transfer season which could have provided this to Evans. I'm not sure why he would buy out his Pharma Lotto contract, to go to Slipstream which would be less money (than both BMC and Pharma Lotto) and could have some of the same problems which dogged him at previous teams. As for the timeline, Evans was looking for a team at the Tour, I think that's when they first got in contact with BMC, he signed in August I believe, the Wiggins saga was far from over at that point.

Evans did not buy out his contract until after he had won the Worlds. He signed with BMC at the very end of October. The Wiggins contract dispute ended in the middle of December, but the dispute could have ended sooner if Slipstream would have had the opportunity to hire Evans. The dispute would have simply been about jacking Sky for enough money to cover the cost of Evans when what they were willing to pay to keep Wiggins was factored in.

What "same problems" would have dogged him at Slipstream. Was Evans so used to crappy team time trials and no climbing assistance that he considered having those things a problem?

 

[Ferminal]

What "same problems" would have dogged him at Slipstream. Was Evans so used to crappy team time trials and no climbing assistance that he considered having those things a problem?

T-Mobile/Pharma Lotto

Teams with strong management and riders, lots of voices and opinions, Cadel wants the team to be completely about him, BMC gave him the rare opportunity to do this.

Who has been more harmonious over the past 18 months, Slipstream or BMC? You hardly hear a peep out of BMC which isn't related to Evans (with the exception of the Italian Duo).

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Who has been more harmonious over the past 18 months, Slipstream or BMC? You hardly hear a peep out of BMC which isn't related to Evans (with the exception of the Italian Duo).

That is because BMC is such a crap team that nearly the only rider capable of doing anything is Evans.

Evans lucked out, the stars aligned, and he won an unlikely victory. But we could have easily been talking about how Evans lost the Tour because he did not have the climbing domestiques to help him chase during stage 18 and 19.

The question is why would Evans manager not even attempt to see what kind of deal he could make with Slipstream. Everyone at that time knew that Wiggins was trying to weasel out of his contract. Did blackcat advise Rominger that Slipstream would surely know that Evans is a doper because of the cleft in his chinny chin chin?

 

[Ferminal]

So you think that the reason for not approaching Slipstream is simply that Evans was an epic doper and was scared about doping there?

This assumes:

1) Evans wanted to ramp up his doping at a new team
2) Slipstream would be against this approach

Matt White had no problems until 2011 getting riders doped at Slipstream, so I'm not sure it would bother Evans too much.

 

[Franklin]

To finish on par with a fresher/rested Panzerwagen, beating your own time by more than a minute from the Dauphine after expending the most energy this week after Schleck... It's just too much.

Well, clearly this means Greg, Joop, Laurent and Bernard Hinault also were major Epo chargers.

If you want to say it's weird that:

1. A major contender betters the time from a build up race when everything is on the line.
2. A major contender does the same thing as the ones I mentioned (who certainly didn't use epo due to it not existing), namely be constant.

I'm at a loss what your point is really.

I certainly find it likely Cadel (ab)uses as he is on Phonak 2.0. But beyond that there is surprisingly little proof, as the power-numbers actually seem to show it's rather tame lately.

And in some ways Cadel's constant yet not E.T. performance harks back to the eighties. In the 19-nineties/20-tens we saw a completely different race with different power-nimbers and consistency of the E.T variety.

Cadel was constant... but he didn't nuke everyone every last MTF or splattered everyone in the TT. So the characteristics of the supercharged era are lacking.

 

[Paco_P]

I'll say it here: Cadel Evans, first clean Tour de France winner since Greg LeMond.

Clean rider wins his first grand tour at the age of 34.

It's hard to believe.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Matt White had no problems until 2011 getting riders doped at Slipstream, so I'm not sure it would bother Evans too much.

There is no evidence of that. Trent Lowe himself says that he was not offered anything by Del Moral and the only thing that was done at the Spanish government owned clinic was standard tests required by the UCI. When was the last time a Slipstream soigneur was caught with 195 doses of EPO? When was the last time a rider on Garmin said that the team owner paid $80K for his doping program? Both of those happened at BMC.