Bordry's people interviewed by novitzky folks and Usada

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Race Radio said:
Ulrich tested positive for amphetamine in a surprise, out of competition test.

Unlike Armstrong he was not given advanced notice of surprise tests so he had to sit out a 6 month suspension.
Correct and...

Pantani failed his health test in 1999 because the testers came 2 hours early. That spelled the end of his career.

Joining the dots looking backwards I don't know how Armstrong could lose. Every base was covered. With that confidence he could do anything.
 
Nov 3, 2010
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And Armstrong tested positive for trace amounts of cortisoids in 1999, only getting out of it because it's a substance in over the counter creams.

So many riders received only slaps on the wrist or short bans, or went completely unpunished, so corruption must have been huge across the board.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Also keep in mind the timing of the whole situation.

Verbruggen had labeled the '99 Tour the "Tour of Redemption", and the Armstrong story played right into that.

The back-dated skin cream was useful in covering his behind literally and figuratively, and I doubt the Tour organizers nor the UCI had any stomach for another scandal, especially one involving the yellow jersey.

So he got a get-out-of-jail-card free of charge on that one. The rest was just a cynical, calculating ploy to defraud cycling's biggest sporting event and turn it into a complete clown show, which is why Armstrong deserves what he's getting right now.
 
Let's not get too carried away here. Yes, Armstrong was protected in that Tour, but so were Beltrán and Hamburger. The backdated TUE was more about the Tour wanting to avoid a repeat of the 1998 scandal than about protecting Armstrong per se.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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hrotha said:
Let's not get too carried away here. Yes, Armstrong was protected in that Tour, but so were Beltrán and Hamburger. The backdated TUE was more about the Tour wanting to avoid a repeat of the 1998 scandal than about protecting Armstrong per se.
Um, that's exactly what I said.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Bilirubin said:
And Armstrong tested positive for trace amounts of cortisoids in 1999, only getting out of it because it's a substance in over the counter creams.

So many riders received only slaps on the wrist or short bans, or went completely unpunished, so corruption must have been huge across the board.
Oh come on. Thats too much for the haters.

Lance was the only protected rider - ever. :D

See: Lance was so bored sometimes, that he ignored his exclusive advance notice for surprise tests, doped extra much and perfectly timed, so that he later could buy out or show TUEs.
Just for fun. Because he was bored.

2002 Lance also appeared in the Pascha-club with THE MASK on, to not be identfied as LA, then put the exctasy in Jan's glass and called the NADA.
 
Apr 13, 2010
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Cobblestoned said:
Oh come on. Thats too much for the haters.

Lance was the only protected rider - ever. :D

See: Lance was so bored sometimes, that he ignored his exclusive advance notice for surprise tests, doped extra much and perfectly timed, so that he later could buy out or show TUEs.
Just for fun. Because he was bored.

2002 Lance also appeared in the Pascha-club with THE MASK on, to not be identfied as LA, then put the exctasy in Jan's glass and called the NADA.
But it's funny though - I can't figure out who are most ridiculous to listen to - the haters who spin outrageous conspiracy theories or the fanboys who play "three monkeys" and spin even more outrageous defences...
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Bilirubin said:
Ulrich must have paid off the testers as well because he never tested positive. Pantani too. In fact there are a whole set of highly suspected dopers who never tested positive, so this corruption must go far and wide.
At a cycling event this year, I spoke with an author who had written about doping in cycling.

I was told that part of the book was about the corruption of the UCI and several positive tests that were subsequently covered up.

Unfortunately, due to legal reasons (I was not told the exact reason why), this part (approx 30 pages) had to be withdrawn from the final draft. The author alluded to the fact that it wasn’t just a handful of riders, but loads.

So slightly away from topic, as well as LieStrong, I sincerely hope that the UCI take a fall as well.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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You know the groupies are loosing touch on reality when when they use Ulrich's positive and Pantani's failed health check as evidence that everyone received the same treatment.

Wonder if Mayo, Haras, Berzin, Frigo, Gonzalez, etc. etc. would have liked to get advanced notice of testing?
 
Nov 3, 2010
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Race Radio said:
You know the groupies are loosing touch on reality when when they use Ulrich's positive and Pantani's failed health check as evidence that everyone received the same treatment.
Why? They managed to take EPO and blood dope for years without getting caught, yet we're told Armstrong had a unique doping ability, even though he tested positive in the same way for a lessor substance.

How did Ulrich and so many other riders manage to blood dope for years without getting caught? That was the main drug for performance, yet none of them tested positive for blood doping.

I think it was a fairly level playing field.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Bilirubin said:
Why? They managed to take EPO and blood dope for years without getting caught, yet we're told Armstrong had a unique doping ability, even though he tested positive in the same way for a lessor substance.

How did Ulrich and so many other riders manage to blood dope for years without getting caught? That was the main drug for performance, yet none of them tested positive for blood doping.

I think it was a fairly level playing field.
Even you realize that Armstrong's positive came prior to his "Donation" to the UCI.

There is a test for Blood doping? Telekom's doping program has been very well detailed by the participators and administrators, there is zero evidence of advanced notice of surprise testing. Did the German Fed ignore Jef d'Hont allegations like the US Fed ignored the 99 positives? Why didn't the UCI hire Virjiman to write a cover up report the Frieburg doping ring, Basso's blood bags, etc. etc?
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Bilirubin said:
I think it was a fairly level playing field.
No it wasn't. Here's why-

Contenders like Ullrich had much more talent at stage racing than Armstrong, who doped before he got sick and never managed a top 20 place at the Tour, struggled in the time trials and climbed like a tortoise carrying a sack of rocks. What changed? Weight loss? Higher cadence? Training harder than anyone else with a maniacal focus reserved only for mythical Greek Gods? Hardly.

1) Armstrong had Dr. Ferarri signed to a non-compete clause, which was never done before. This made a huge difference. Even in doping circles there is always one doctor who is outstanding in his field, and Ferarri is it. Everyone knows it. Get on his program and you'll be winning in no time. Exclusivity to this doctor would assure no one else is on the same program during the same race.

2) Armstrong payed bribes to the UCI for preferential treatment. How else were all those ex-Postal riders caught only after they left the fold? Is anyone naive enough to think those riders began doping only after they left Postal?

4) The sheer ridiculousness of winning 7 Tours in a row. Preposterous for even the most talented rider, for Armstrong it was nothing less than the pinnacle of his reinforcement of cycling's Iron Triangle between the UCI, Dr. Ferarri and himself.

After the Landis accusations came to light, the UCI clearly stated they were not going to investigate the claims. Their monumental arrogance lead us to where we are today, and now Novitzky is leading the charge in this Federal investigation. Since the UCI were clearly backing Armstrong, someone had to take the other side.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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thehog said:
Joining the dots looking backwards I don't know how Armstrong could lose.
yes hog - hindsight is 20/20.

And there are plenty more "dots" that led to the SEVEN wins in a row.
I think my list of "dots" is up to 20-30 attributes. Maybe more.

Race Radio said:
You know the groupies are loosing touch on reality when when they use Ulrich's positive and Pantani's failed health check as evidence that everyone received the same treatment.

Wonder if Mayo, Haras, Berzin, Frigo, Gonzalez, etc. etc. would have liked to get advanced notice of testing?
Is this the new hater mantra?

"Lance was transformed into a 7 Time TdF winner because of Advance Notice of Testing".

LOL.

Is it because the old myth that "EPO Transformed Lance" has been debunked?
Need a new myth?

Race Radio said:
There is a test for Blood doping??
Um, not when Lance was winning his 7 in a row. No test...

Kind of defeats the purpose on "Advance Notice of Testing"?

Gosh, that myth did not last long....
 
Jun 19, 2009
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tubularglue said:
i am thinking Spain, then onto Switzerland. Long trip

Italians this week. Maybe Lyon is the hub
With the Italians joining it's officially a party!
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Polish said:
Poor Polish, reduced to inventing ridiculous strawmen in his quest for attention.

You are the only person saying that EPO is the ONLY reason for Armstrong's sudden transformation.

Of course advance notice of testing helps with there is a 50% cut off. Plenty of time and methods to bring your Hct down to 49.5 if given enough time. I am sure Pantani would have liked that option.

You should spend more time selling Treks then trolling this forum.
 
Polish said:
Is this the new hater mantra?

"Lance was transformed into a 7 Time TdF winner because of Advance Notice of Testing".

LOL.

Is it because the old myth that "EPO Transformed Lance" has been debunked?
Need a new myth?
Don't know why I'm pointing out the obvious to the board's resident village idiot, but the term "advanced notice of testing", is as old as "the most tested athlete" rhetoric.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Of course advance notice of testing helps with there is a 50% cut off. Plenty of time and methods to bring your Hct down to 49.5 if given enough time. I am sure Pantani would have liked that option.
Pantani was wearing the maglia rosa.
He KNEW he would be tested.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Polish said:
Nope, this was not a post stage test. It was surprise morning test.....if it was Armstrong the testers would have waited an hour and had coffee with the staff while Wonderboy "Took a Shower" (code for infused a bag of saline)
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Nope, this was not a post stage test. It was surprise morning test.....if it was Armstrong the testers would have waited an hour and had coffee with the staff while Wonderboy "Took a Shower" (code for infused a bag of saline)
If you want to believe Sir Marco was "surprised" by a "health test" in his Home Tour, that is fine by me. If you want to believe I sell Treks, that is against forum rules for bogusly insulting a fellow member. Reported.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
Don't know why I'm pointing out the obvious to the board's resident village idiot, but the term "advanced notice of testing", is as old as "the most tested athlete" rhetoric.
mellow, "advanced notice" is as bogus as "most tested".

Both are true to a certain extent.
And both are NOT really meaningful.

BTW, I do believe 'most tested" is older though.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Advanced notice towards a test for a criminal use of drugs would implicate a large amount of individuals. Do you think that cycling in general and Lance in particular would be dishonest enough to tip the system in his favor?
 
Jun 29, 2010
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Polish said:
If you want to believe Sir Marco was "surprised" by a "health test" in his Home Tour, that is fine by me. If you want to believe I sell Treks, that is against forum rules for bogusly insulting a fellow member. Reported.
Matt Rendell's thoroughly researched book looks in detail at why Pantani was caught out by the testers in his home tour that morning. It is worth reading if only for this. The evidence points to Pantani being surprised and unable to lower his crit before being tested by the vampires. There are a number of theories as to why this happened, but there seems little doubt that advance warning would have enabled him to win the Giro that year by diluting his blood prior to the test (and would have substantially changed the subsequent history of cycling). It is probable that such advance warning of morning blood tests enabled him to win his previous GTs whilst exceeding the 50% limit enforced at the time.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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JPM London said:
But it's funny though - I can't figure out who are most ridiculous to listen to - the haters who spin outrageous conspiracy theories or the fanboys who play "three monkeys" and spin even more outrageous defences...
Of course, for me, the haters. Quiet entertaining to see these euphoric people in last few days.
You give them your little Novotzky and they take the whole hand and totally haul off. Gone by malicious joy. I wonder how they manage all these threads while always telling the same.
I prefer this Berzin guy. If I could chose one, it would be him. LMAO
Then Rrrrrradio, because he thinks Lance is even stupid, which you read almost never.
The one and only good-responder - our exclusive Lanceness. Tourminator is wrong now. He's the superresponding donkey and exclusive Exclusivnator exclusively protected.

They paint their world how they like it. Like Pipi Langstrumpf, you know. :D
"I have a house, a monkey and a horse la la la lala"
Repeat their rumors and thoughts 1000 times, so they believe it's a fact after some time and hope that people do that, too. Blind to the left and right. Just straight on their target and own logics. Applauding each other and giving 5 to themselfes.
Look - the clinic proved....
thehog said ""...
yesterday someone told me....
Novitzky is my source...
Floyd said...

Well, I remember that I was one of the three monkeys because I don't hate Lance, later I was one of the 3 Stooges. 3 Stooges were then dissolved because of a ban. Then found a new member, reunited and dissolved again because of ban, meanwhile the two left Stooges were banned for some time, too.

But see: 3 apes and 3 Stooges even admit that they are often joking with their Lancelove, but all these Mr.Langstrumpfs really think they are serious and that it's still healthy what they expose here.
But they don't hate Lance, of course. Only interested in clean cycling....
 

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