Bradley Wiggins Vs Fabian Cancellera

[Gigs_98]

First of all it doesn't make any sense to make a list of career wins if the list is absolutely incomplete.
Anyway I honestly think that if cancellara would have ridden on the track too he also would have been succesfull there. Cancellara at his prime was able to ride the last kilometer of a stage faster than a sprint train with their sprinter so he was extremely good on short distances.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re:

Completely depends on how you rate track events. Like asking who the better sprinter is between Gregory Bauge and Marcel Kittel: meaningless unless you define it further. Fwiw, I think that, if you rate track wins as equal to road wins, Wiggins just pips it (because they've got rid of his best event from the Olympics, and yet he's still got 5 golds), but it's desperately close.

Okay, maybe not Bauge.

 

[wwabbit]

It's really incredible that some people here are extrapolating Cancellara's performance to assume that he would match Wiggins in winning Olympics Golds in track events by just turning up for them.

 

[El Pistolero]

Monument wins are bigger than track gold in the Olympics anyway.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Re:

Monument wins are bigger than track gold in the Olympics anyway.

Yep, but one gotta look at the completeness when comparing the "bigger" riders.

Essential stuff.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Monument wins are bigger than track gold in the Olympics anyway.

Yep, but one gotta look at the completeness when comparing the "bigger" riders.

Essential stuff.

More difference between Milan-San Remo and Roubaix than between track cycling and time trials.

 

[Anderis]

I think I would rather have Wiggins' palmares myself, but that's without even trying to be objective.

 

[Red Rick]

I want to quote the great Louis van Gaal here.

"You can't compare apples with pears"

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Re: Re:

Monument wins are bigger than track gold in the Olympics anyway.

Yep, but one gotta look at the completeness when comparing the "bigger" riders.

Essential stuff.

More difference between Milan-San Remo and Roubaix than between track cycling and time trials.

Methinks you are struggling staying objective here. 5 Olympic golds counts. A TDF win. Some stage races. The hour record, etc.

But none of them are truly complete riders.

 

[42x16ss]

Cance. No contest. A far longer and more diverse career at the top.

As for the pursuit, look at Cancellara's record in prologues at his peak and tell me Wigans would have beaten him. The 2004, 2007, 2009 and 2010 TDF prologue wins (ALL with Wigans present and targeting them) all but prove this.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Another thing is that while Wiggins always mentions Cance as inspiration/target etc., Cance almost never mentions Wiggins.

 

[toolittle]

Re:

Another thing is that while Wiggins always mentions Cance as inspiration/target etc., Cance almost never mentions Wiggins.

Football, F1 racing, Basket Ball are the highest value events in sports. F1 racing winner won't be cycling king.

Then, Pro tour road racing is the highest value in cycling world. In various road events, grand tour has highest value while cobbled stone classics is in second.

Many world class Track racing / MTB / Cyclocross riders joins road racing and became domestique.
This make people think road cyclist are stronger than Track riders.

In my point of views, track racing / MTB / Cyclocross require different set of skills and slightly different ability.
Strong road cyclists will not 100% success in track events.
Mark cavendish and Sir Bradley needs year of preparation for Olympic track event. But no guarantee in success.

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

Cancellera, Wiggins and Tony Martin are most powerful rider of the generation.
Both Cancellera and Wiggins are able to produce results in highest events that they are working on.

The difference is :
Cancellera focused in Classics and TT for whole career. Go for classics in springs and then TDF and WC TT during summers. He kept high power and relative high body weight.
Wiggins targeted track events from 1998 to 2008. Then, target tours and TT from 2009 to 2014. Back to Track from 2015 to 2016.

Their only interception are years 2009 to 2014. Bradley left track events and focus in road events only.
Actually, Bradley dominated TT from 2013 to 2014.

I think they are 2 of strongest riders (Contador, Froome, Wiggins, Cancellera, Boonen, Bettini, Gilbert, Cavendish) after armstrong age.

Before 2011 :
Cancellera is god in road with 4 x TTWC, 1 x TTORG, 4 x Monuments.
Wiggins is rookie in road although he had 6 WC and 3x ORG in track events.

After 2012:
Wiggins won TDF, 1x TTWC, 1 x TT ORG, 1 x Track WC, 1 x Track ORG.
Cacnellera got 3 x Monuments, 1 x TT ORG

They have similar abilities (Cancellera is a little bit better in early age) but working on different directions.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Cancellera, Wiggins and Tony Martin are most powerful rider of the generation.
Both Cancellera and Wiggins are able to produce results in highest events that they are working on.

The difference is :
Cancellera focused in Classics and TT for whole career. Go for classics in springs and then TDF and WC TT during summers. He kept high power and relative high body weight.
Wiggins targeted track events from 1998 to 2008. Then, target tours and TT from 2009 to 2014. Back to Track from 2015 to 2016.

Their only interception are years 2009 to 2014. Bradley left track events and focus in road events only.
Actually, Bradley dominated TT from 2013 to 2014.

I think they are 2 of strongest riders (Contador, Froome, Wiggins, Cancellera, Boonen, Bettini, Gilbert, Cavendish) after armstrong age.

Before 2011 :
Cancellera is god in road with 4 x TTWC, 1 x TTORG, 4 x Monuments.
Wiggins is rookie in road although he had 6 WC and 3x ORG in track events.

After 2012:
Wiggins won TDF, 1x TTWC, 1 x TT ORG, 1 x Track WC, 1 x Track ORG.
Cacnellera got 3 x Monuments, 1 x TT ORG

They have similar abilities (Cancellera is a little bit better in early age) but working on different directions.

It's Cancellara

 

[PremierAndrew]

Reading this thread, you'd think that Chris Hoy is a more successful cyclist than someone like Cunego

 

[ice&fire]

Can't recall Wiggo neutralising a Tour stage just because the events didn't fit his (team) goals

 

[dastott]

The Tour is the pinnacle of cycling, by a large margin. So, with a victory and 3rd place Wiggins has the best palmares surely. 3rd place in Vuelta also is worth a lot.

 

[samhocking]

It would be interesting to ask Cancellera what victories he'd give up from his palamares in return for a Tour de France victory like Wiggins. Last swiss victory was Koblet in 1951, so not exactly your first ever Tour victor, but not far off.

 

[StryderHells]

Great OP!

Personally a better question would be. Churchill vs Big Bird
Any ideas?

 

[samhocking]

Re:

Cance. No contest. A far longer and more diverse career at the top.

As for the pursuit, look at Cancellara's record in prologues at his peak and tell me Wigans would have beaten him. The 2004, 2007, 2009 and 2010 TDF prologue wins (ALL with Wigans present and targeting them) all but prove this.

This is the misconception road riders who've never raced track have of it.
The best example to prove this misconception, would be LeBlanc's comments about Boardman's chance of winning the 1994 Tour prologue as Hour Record holder and reiging World Individual Pursuit Champion. Luc LeBlanc (was French national RR champion at the time) said that "if Boardman could break the hour record, then half of the pro peloton could"!
In a twist of fate, Boardman in hist first ever stage of his Tour debut started 1 minute behind LeBlanc. Boarmdan caught and passed LeBlanc for 1 minute and was the only rider to catch his minute man in that prologue. Boardman answered a journalist afterwards about LeBlancs statement about him earlier that season, to which Boardman simply replied "Well, we now know what half of the peloton LeBlanc is in, don't we, this is the race of truth afterall"?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Cance. No contest. A far longer and more diverse career at the top.

As for the pursuit, look at Cancellara's record in prologues at his peak and tell me Wigans would have beaten him. The 2004, 2007, 2009 and 2010 TDF prologue wins (ALL with Wigans present and targeting them) all but prove this.

This is the misconception road riders who've never raced track have of it.
The best example to prove this misconception, would be LeBlanc's comments about Boardman's chance of winning the 1994 Tour prologue as Hour Record holder and reiging World Individual Pursuit Champion. Luc LeBlanc (was French national RR champion at the time) said that "if Boardman could break the hour record, then half of the pro peloton could"!
In a twist of fate, Boardman in hist first ever stage of his Tour debut started 1 minute behind LeBlanc. Boarmdan caught and passed LeBlanc for 1 minute and was the only rider to catch his minute man in that prologue. Boardman answered a journalist afterwards about LeBlancs statement about him earlier that season, to which Boardman simply replied "Well, we now know what half of the peloton LeBlanc is in, don't we, this is the race of truth afterall"?

The pursuit is not the Hour. If you're good in the Hour, you will be good at any distance. The same cannot be said of the pursuit. Wigans was never truly a match for Cancellara in a long or short TT until 2011, and their respective records show it. The latter half of Wigans career was superb, however Cancellara's time at the top was far longer.

 

[samhocking]

That's a very Cancellara-centric method to compare them by. It's not a realistic comparison when one rider focused only on Track Pursuit until 2008, while the other focused on Pro Tour TT & Classics their whole career and only use Pro Tour results to decide? I think the fact Wiggins finished Beijing 2008 as a track rider as Olympic & World Individual & Team pursuit champion and then in 2009 was 3rd overall in Tour de France is what makes Wiggins uncomparable to any rider in pro peloton.
Had Cancellera won Tour de France, no doubt he would be head and shoulders above Wiggins, but i would say they are simply different riders with different objectives their who career. Them both doing TT is such a small part of their palamares when Wiggins only really gave up track after Beijing. When he was focused on Pro tour from 2009 to 2014 he was a step above Cancellera & Martin by some distance in ITT in Tour, Giro & Worlds.

 

[toolittle]

Re:

This post is "open" for all kinds of discussion related to these 2 cycling giants. Not limited to who is better than who.

Of course, it is interesting to see who is stronger. But it is very difficult to tell.
I think the only way is that, Cancellera try hour record next spring when he is 36. (Wiggins 1hr record is at his 36)

1hour record is an effort in controlled enrimonment. Rider could choose the time that he feels best. No limitation at all.

This is a method to test one of most important ability.
Of course, that is not all. Cancellera's ability in cobbled stone, Wiggins ability of recovery in 3weeks are not measured by a hr test.

 

[samhocking]

Well Cancellara pretty much gave up on it even before Wiggins had broken the record. Feb last year he said the following:

“When Bradley will do it and set a record, it’s going to be hard for someone to do it and catch that. His ability on the track is like no one else. He’s fluid.”

"it would be hard for me to top Wiggins’s potential distance given I don't have a track background".

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

That's a very Cancellara-centric method to compare them by. It's not a realistic comparison when one rider focused only on Track Pursuit until 2008, while the other focused on Pro Tour TT & Classics their whole career and only use Pro Tour results to decide? I think the fact Wiggins finished Beijing 2008 as a track rider as Olympic & World Individual & Team pursuit champion and then in 2009 was 3rd overall in Tour de France is what makes Wiggins uncomparable to any rider in pro peloton.
Had Cancellera won Tour de France, no doubt he would be head and shoulders above Wiggins, but i would say they are simply different riders with different objectives their who career. Them both doing TT is such a small part of their palamares when Wiggins only really gave up track after Beijing. When he was focused on Pro tour from 2009 to 2014 he was a step above Cancellera & Martin by some distance in ITT in Tour, Giro & Worlds.

Thats simply wrong. Wiggins was arguably the best TT'er in 2012 and I'd say as good as Martin in 2014 (the worlds ITT was extremely close) but in other years he got beaten by Martin and Cancellara very often.