British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars including Br

[thehog]

Re:

Anyway, i'm just gonna drive 80 miles to Harley St in the morning and find a good fast private Dr to write me out a prescription for my beta blockers my Dr diagnosed I needed last year because I don't have time to renew the prescription 5 mins down the road. I'm a very bust amateur cyclist who trains for a whole 8-9 hours a week don't you know!

Which again is supposition. If you can't raise facts it gives rise you have none. Therefore Steves testimony is strong & factual.

Period.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Anyway, i'm just gonna drive 80 miles to Harley St in the morning and find a good fast private Dr to write me out a prescription for my beta blockers my Dr diagnosed I needed last year because I don't have time to renew the prescription 5 mins down the road. I'm a very bust amateur cyclist who trains for a whole 8-9 hours a week don't you know!

Which again is supposition. If you can't raise facts it gives rise you have none. Therefore Steves testimony is strong & factual.

Period.

I have read this exchange of views and really can't understand why someone who is normally cynical and questioning about what most people say (especially cyclists) is so determined that everything Stevens says and the manner in which he expresses it is Gospel. samhocking and nevada are on the money. It's not a case of shooting whistleblowers or sticking up for UKAD to observe that this guy has been putting the information he has in the best possible light for him, which includes trying to dispel any impression that he actively and at his own expense went out to seek dope. You can still make such other criticisms as you have even if that is true, as samhocking has been saying it is. Yes, at the end of the day it's an opinion based on what he said, but it's as valid as any other interpretation and deserves greater respect.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Anyway, i'm just gonna drive 80 miles to Harley St in the morning and find a good fast private Dr to write me out a prescription for my beta blockers my Dr diagnosed I needed last year because I don't have time to renew the prescription 5 mins down the road. I'm a very bust amateur cyclist who trains for a whole 8-9 hours a week don't you know!

Which again is supposition. If you can't raise facts it gives rise you have none. Therefore Steves testimony is strong & factual.

Period.

I have read this exchange of views and really can't understand why someone who is normally cynical and questioning about what most people say (especially cyclists) is so determined that everything Stevens says and the manner in which he expresses it is Gospel. samhocking and nevada are on the money. It's not a case of shooting whistleblowers or sticking up for UKAD to observe that this guy has been putting the information he has in the best possible light for him, which includes trying to dispel any impression that he actively and at his own expense went out to seek dope. You can still make such other criticisms as you have even if that is true, as samhocking has been saying it is. Yes, at the end of the day it's an opinion based on what he said, but it's as valid as any other interpretation and deserves greater respect.

you can open a thread about Stevens early carreer doping if u think it warrants discussion or speculation. In here the question has zero relevance, unless your interest is to deflect away from the message by shooting the messenger.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Anyway, i'm just gonna drive 80 miles to Harley St in the morning and find a good fast private Dr to write me out a prescription for my beta blockers my Dr diagnosed I needed last year because I don't have time to renew the prescription 5 mins down the road. I'm a very bust amateur cyclist who trains for a whole 8-9 hours a week don't you know!

Which again is supposition. If you can't raise facts it gives rise you have none. Therefore Steves testimony is strong & factual.

Period.

I have read this exchange of views and really can't understand why someone who is normally cynical and questioning about what most people say (especially cyclists) is so determined that everything Stevens says and the manner in which he expresses it is Gospel. samhocking and nevada are on the money. It's not a case of shooting whistleblowers or sticking up for UKAD to observe that this guy has been putting the information he has in the best possible light for him, which includes trying to dispel any impression that he actively and at his own expense went out to seek dope. You can still make such other criticisms as you have even if that is true, as samhocking has been saying it is. Yes, at the end of the day it's an opinion based on what he said, but it's as valid as any other interpretation and deserves greater respect.

you can open a thread about Stevens early carreer doping if u think it warrants discussion or speculation. In here the question has zero relevance, unless your interest is to deflect away from the message by shooting the messenger.

I have said my piece. Your response is not unexpected. My opinion is not deflection, but agreement with others (who do not include yourself). Simple.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Anyway, i'm just gonna drive 80 miles to Harley St in the morning and find a good fast private Dr to write me out a prescription for my beta blockers my Dr diagnosed I needed last year because I don't have time to renew the prescription 5 mins down the road. I'm a very bust amateur cyclist who trains for a whole 8-9 hours a week don't you know!

Which again is supposition. If you can't raise facts it gives rise you have none. Therefore Steves testimony is strong & factual.

Period.

I have read this exchange of views and really can't understand why someone who is normally cynical and questioning about what most people say (especially cyclists) is so determined that everything Stevens says and the manner in which he expresses it is Gospel. samhocking and nevada are on the money. It's not a case of shooting whistleblowers or sticking up for UKAD to observe that this guy has been putting the information he has in the best possible light for him, which includes trying to dispel any impression that he actively and at his own expense went out to seek dope. You can still make such other criticisms as you have even if that is true, as samhocking has been saying it is. Yes, at the end of the day it's an opinion based on what he said, but it's as valid as any other interpretation and deserves greater respect.

you can open a thread about Stevens early carreer doping if u think it warrants discussion or speculation. In here the question has zero relevance, unless your interest is to deflect away from the message by shooting the messenger.

I have said my piece. Your response is not unexpected. My opinion is not deflection, but agreement with others (who do not include yourself). Simple.

It certainly looks like deflection.

Aren't you interested in Stevens experience with UKAD? It could lead to an improvement in detection of dopers, wouldn't that be important?

Not sure why you wouldn't want to know and prefer people to remain silent like when Cookson wanted JTL not to speak of his experience with UKAD.

Most odd.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Anyway, i'm just gonna drive 80 miles to Harley St in the morning and find a good fast private Dr to write me out a prescription for my beta blockers my Dr diagnosed I needed last year because I don't have time to renew the prescription 5 mins down the road. I'm a very bust amateur cyclist who trains for a whole 8-9 hours a week don't you know!

Which again is supposition. If you can't raise facts it gives rise you have none. Therefore Steves testimony is strong & factual.

Period.

I have read this exchange of views and really can't understand why someone who is normally cynical and questioning about what most people say (especially cyclists) is so determined that everything Stevens says and the manner in which he expresses it is Gospel. samhocking and nevada are on the money. It's not a case of shooting whistleblowers or sticking up for UKAD to observe that this guy has been putting the information he has in the best possible light for him, which includes trying to dispel any impression that he actively and at his own expense went out to seek dope. You can still make such other criticisms as you have even if that is true, as samhocking has been saying it is. Yes, at the end of the day it's an opinion based on what he said, but it's as valid as any other interpretation and deserves greater respect.

you can open a thread about Stevens early carreer doping if u think it warrants discussion or speculation. In here the question has zero relevance, unless your interest is to deflect away from the message by shooting the messenger.

I have said my piece. Your response is not unexpected. My opinion is not deflection, but agreement with others (who do not include yourself). Simple.

Its classic shoot the messenger. Classic deflection.
Simple indeed. Old school.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Well, I have got two of you being pointed about me and you say you are right so, as I said, I've said my piece. Thanks for being so welcoming and perceptive. I will leave you to get on with it.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Well, I have got two of you being pointed about me and you say you are right so, as I said, I've said my piece. Thanks for being so welcoming and perceptive. I will leave you to get on with it.

Again, odd.

No one is claiming to be right, all that is being said is we should listen to Stevens and his experience so anti-doping can improve.

I thought you'd want the same thing, yes?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Well, I have got two of you being pointed about me and you say you are right so, as I said, I've said my piece. Thanks for being so welcoming and perceptive. I will leave you to get on with it.

Again, odd.

No one is claiming to be right, all that is being said is we should listen to Stevens and his experience so anti-doping can improve.

I thought you'd want the same thing, yes?

Totally agree. It's time to see the two approaches are not incompatible. But I am finished off, so please excuse me. When I am attacked by folk who don't read and think about what I say, to give it a fair hearing, I sometimes get mad and persist but really it isn't worth it.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Well, I have got two of you being pointed about me and you say you are right so, as I said, I've said my piece. Thanks for being so welcoming and perceptive. I will leave you to get on with it.

Again, odd.

No one is claiming to be right, all that is being said is we should listen to Stevens and his experience so anti-doping can improve.

I thought you'd want the same thing, yes?

ukad spent 50k to fight stevens.
money well spent.

 

[beatthatrat]

Re: Re:

Well, I have got two of you being pointed about me and you say you are right so, as I said, I've said my piece. Thanks for being so welcoming and perceptive. I will leave you to get on with it.

Rather like the peloton, there are some members of the clinic who don't like a divergence from the party line. I don't think it's personal, just reflex at this stage - don't spit in the soup.
It's a real pity they're allowed to run the asylum nowadays as overall quality has deteriorated since a lot of the independent thinkers were drummed out.

 

[budegan]

Re:

You call up your surgery, ask the receptionist to book you an appointment on the next available lunctime slot available with your GP and nip out at lunchtime from work. He sees your notes from the other NHS Dr who diagnosed you and writes you out a prescription. It's hardly a big deal, it's just a prescription like anyother, it's not like waiting for surgery to have a triple heart bypass is it.

Having seen Steven's testimony I made a post a day or so ago that I believed he sought out Bonar with the intention of doping. I also believe his motivation for spitting in the soup is bitterness due to not being granted the reduction he wanted.

However that doesn't undermine his argument in his dealing with them UKAD proved themselves as gutless, toothless, and to some extent dim. Neither does it undermine his admirable determination in making a stand.

Much like Digger, one can disagree with how or why he does it but he appears to be taking up a very vocal role in fighting for a cleaner sport.

* EDIT: I'm an idiot, I thought I'd reached the latest post so wrote and posted the above only to realise there was another page of discussion. Apologies for making the same point that WrinklyVet argued more elegantly.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
Having seen Steven's testimony I made a post a day or so ago that I believed he sought out Bonar with the intention of doping. I also believe his motivation for spitting in the soup is bitterness due to not being granted the reduction he wanted.

there we have it

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Well, I have got two of you being pointed about me and you say you are right so, as I said, I've said my piece. Thanks for being so welcoming and perceptive. I will leave you to get on with it.

Rather like the peloton, there are some members of the clinic who don't like a divergence from the party line. I don't think it's personal, just reflex at this stage - don't spit in the soup.
It's a real pity they're allowed to run the asylum nowadays as overall quality has deteriorated since a lot of the independent thinkers were drummed out.

Posts: 44Joined: 20 Nov 2015 11:53

Which independent thinkers were these? The ones from BikeRadar?

 

[sniper]

I like how the CADF, FIFA's ethics commission, IAAF's investigation into its own leaders, and Froome's physiological testing have given a whole new meaning to the word "independent".

 

[beatthatrat]

Re: Re:

Well, I have got two of you being pointed about me and you say you are right so, as I said, I've said my piece. Thanks for being so welcoming and perceptive. I will leave you to get on with it.

Rather like the peloton, there are some members of the clinic who don't like a divergence from the party line. I don't think it's personal, just reflex at this stage - don't spit in the soup.
It's a real pity they're allowed to run the asylum nowadays as overall quality has deteriorated since a lot of the independent thinkers were drummed out.

Posts: 44Joined: 20 Nov 2015 11:53

Which independent thinkers were these? The ones from BikeRadar?

Odd.
Seems like deflection.

 

[kwikki]

Well, well,well....

UK Anti-Doping criticised over handling of doctor in alleged drugs scandal

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/11/uk-anti-doping-criticised-gmc-doctor-mark-bonar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

A good outcome, I'd say, and one that will leave Sapstead feeling decidedly uncomfortable.

I haven't changed my view of the so-called 'athlete' in question. A 3rd Cat amateur. Watching him giving his testimony to the parliamentary committee was hilarious. He was living the dream having his very own Oprah moment.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Well, well,well....

UK Anti-Doping criticised over handling of doctor in alleged drugs scandal

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/11/uk-anti-doping-criticised-gmc-doctor-mark-bonar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

A good outcome, I'd say, and one that will leave Sapstead feeling decidedly uncomfortable.

I haven't changed my view of the so-called 'athlete' in question. A 3rd Cat amateur. Watching him giving his testimony to the parliamentary committee was hilarious. He was living the dream having his very own Oprah moment.

Sadly Stevens didn't get to live the dream of contributing to Ward's Investgation. They didn't make contact or speak to him.

Hardly an outcome anyone should be proud of, especially the "best anti-doping body in the world", lol! :lol:

 

[kwikki]

Agreed. For once an independent investigation that appears to have been independent. Certainly not a whitewash.

Don't expect change, however.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

Well, I have got two of you being pointed about me and you say you are right so, as I said, I've said my piece. Thanks for being so welcoming and perceptive. I will leave you to get on with it.

Rather like the peloton, there are some members of the clinic who don't like a divergence from the party line. I don't think it's personal, just reflex at this stage - don't spit in the soup.
It's a real pity they're allowed to run the asylum nowadays as overall quality has deteriorated since a lot of the independent thinkers were drummed out.

It's the end of The Clinic! Again.

How many times have we seen these relentless personal attacks turn out to be just that? I've lost count.

Is it irony that the enormous effort protecting IOC sports actually ends up harming them? These threads just don't die and the facts end up overwhelming corrupt institutions.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars includin

Posted this in 'brits don't dope,' thread. Will do it here as well.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/36761908

 

[Benotti69]

Might get a job at Sky for 2017.......

 

[Benotti69]

Graham Arthur, legal director UK Anti-Doping, suspended after report on Bonar case shows “ghastly” mistakes.

Wonder how many 'ghastly' mistakes have been made in testing UK athletes? Loads i guess!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-anti-doping-official-suspended-cnkct8f2l

 

[sniper]

Re:

Graham Arthur, legal director UK Anti-Doping, suspended after report on Bonar case shows “ghastly” mistakes.

Wonder how many 'ghastly' mistakes have been made in testing UK athletes? Loads i guess!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-anti-doping-official-suspended-cnkct8f2l

This 'independent' report is still very much beating around the bush.
Brits have many qualities, but calling a spade a spade is not one of them.

We've seen UKAD's playbook for dealing with whistleblowers in full glory: first try to silence him kindly, then try to silence him with legal action.
What we saw here was no more no less than an attempt to hush up a doping ring and doping of British athletes.
UKAD was facilitating doping and it's incredible that Sapstead isn't resigning or forced to resign.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

[quote="sniper"Brits have many qualities, but calling a spade a spade is not one of them].[/quote]


:lol: You are probably right.

Funnily enough, we have a euphemism "a Dutch uncle".

I take it you know what this is