British politics

[Brullnux]

Cameron announced his retirement from parliament this week. He will be remembered as a man who increased inequality; led the UK through 6 years of sometimes necessary sometimes completely ideological austerity; furthered the destruction of the NHS; helped the rise of ISIS in Libya; almost broke up the UK; introduced gay marriage; damaged the welfare state slowly but surely; and by far the most important thing and the one event he will be most remembered for, took Britain out of the EU by allowing a vote to solve an internal party dispute. Yet, he won two elections, despite being possibly the worst ever post-war PM. Even McCallaghan of 1979 came out with more respect. He achieved little of note that was positive, only gay marriage springs to mind.

I wish him luck in his bid to make millions as a North Africa Peace envoy, or working in the city where an Etonian like him belongs.

 

[Brullnux]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/18/new-ukip-leader-says-she-counts-vladimir-putin-as-a-political-hero

UKIP have been struggling to find an identity after Brexit, their only actual policy. There was the option of becoming a party that built upon their recent successes and continued to galvanize and take the votes of the usually Labour voting working classes, who might feel disenfranchised with Labour HQ and especially previous Labour administrations, all while maintaining a strong share of the Daily Mail reading Tory voting middle classes, to become a respectable (ish) protest force in British Politics. Instead, by electing Diane James, they have taken the other option, retreating back to the shadows where they originated from and rebecoming a fringe party. I don't want to speak too soon, but this could be the beginning of the end of an actual UKIP force of any strength.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/18/new-ukip-leader-says-she-counts-vladimir-putin-as-a-political-hero

UKIP have been struggling to find an identity after Brexit, their only actual policy. There was the option of becoming a party that built upon their recent successes and continued to galvanize and take the votes of the usually Labour voting working classes, who might feel disenfranchised with Labour HQ and especially previous Labour administrations, all while maintaining a strong share of the Daily Mail reading Tory voting middle classes, to become a respectable (ish) protest force in British Politics. Instead, by electing Diane James, they have taken the other option, retreating back to the shadows where they originated from and rebecoming a fringe party. I don't want to speak too soon, but this could be the beginning of the end of an actual UKIP force of any strength.

Good, because single policy parties are downright dangerous - once they achieve their goal they have no idea where to go from there. UKIP and Farage has done enough damage already.

 

[Jagartrott]

Who needs experts, when you've got politicians?

Experts are wrong about the moon causing ocean tides, Ukip MP Douglas Carswell insists

Douglas Carswell has become embroiled in a bizarre argument with scientists over whether the moon or sun causes ocean tides.

Scientific knowledge generally holds that tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon orbiting the earth. The Sun’s much further distance means it has a much more limted effect because of the effect of the inverse square law on gravitational pull.

However, committed eurosceptic Mr Carswell on Monday challenged a top scientist at Sussex University’s Science Policy Research Unit (SPRU) over the claim, arguing that the sun in fact primarily causes tides.

The row comes after fellow Brexiteer Michael Gove declared that “people in this country have had enough of experts” when he refused to name any economists who backed leaving the EU.

Professor Paul Nightingale, the deputy director of the SPRU, had posted on Twitter mentioning that the gravitational pull of the moon caused tides.

Mr Carswell however took issue with the suggestion and interjected:

“Actually, it's the gravitational pull of the sun,” the MP said. “The moon's gravity does Spring / neap tides.”

“[I’m] surprised [the] head of Science research at a university refutes idea sun's gravity causes tides.”

Mr Nightingale replied: “Douglas, this isn't a controversial point. Its in Newton's Principia.”

Undeterred, Mr Carswell, who holds a Masters in British Imperial History, insisted: “Two tides every 24hrs. Caused by earths rotation / Suns gravitational pull. Moon magnifies Spring /neap tides.”

Mr Carswell is Ukip’s only MP, and represents Clacton, a seaside town in Essex.

He appeared at the party’s conference this weekend where he declared that he backed new leader Diane James “110 per cent”.

 

[Brullnux]

the earth revolves around the sun. this is a well known fact. i'm annoyed carswell didn't stick to what he knows is true rather than give in to these pc jerks by saying the earth rotates. the scientists lie for the money. well known fact to anyone who opens their eyes and sees the truth behind what the left wing media wants us to see. i bet the journalist is paid by the bbc, we know how anti-brexit they are and they just want us to vote labour and those other pseudoscience parties. disgrace.

 

[Brullnux]

Amber Rudd - Home Secretary, rising star of the conservatives and protégé of Prime Minister Theresa May - has been revealed to have been a director of a Bahamian company in the latest tax haven leak. Seriously dodgy stuff in her business past, none of which she ever revealed. Nice transparency from the government.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/21/bahamas-leaks-reveal-amber-rudd-involvement-offshore-firms

 

[Brullnux]

For once this year, predictions were correct and Corbyn eased to victory in the Labour elections 2.0. He now faces an enormous battle to reunite the PLP and the party as a whole.

I guess this operation has started with Clive Lewis acknowledging that Labour policy on Trident now being sort of a reluctant approval, a strange ambivalence or just disappointed acceptance of it. I personally am very much against Trident, but understand and appreciate the effort being made to compromise and liaison with the 'plotters'. This effort will not be helped however by Hilary Benn, Angela Eagle and a few other non entities in the PLP deciding to announce that they were still against Corbyn and will do everything to fight him to and overthrow him, because it worked so well last time around.

Frankly, the plotters are a stain on the Labour party. I find it absolutely fine that you may disagree with Corbyn, and I do not mind if an MP turns down a place in tune cabinet and rebelled in a more constructive manner - praise when he does something you agree with, and constructively criticise when he doesn't. Like the left wing faction did under Blair, and to some extent what how it worked in the vote on air strikes. But if you were to accept a place in the cabinet, then you must work with not against him. Have your doubts and speak to him about it, but do not plot a coup, especially when said leader has a fantastically large mandate. Because if you do, nobody wins. The party becomes divided and a win in the GE becomes further away. The only front bencher not in Corbyn's team who respected this was Andy Burnham, who has now gone to try (and almost certainly) win the Manchester mayoral elections. If you do challenge, ok, but at least put up a respectable candidate. And if you don't and lose 62/38, then accept it and move on. Try to win the next election. Corbyn is not unelectable. A divided Labour is. Simple as that.

Sadiq Khan has seemed to get the message, and called for Labour to regain credibility by doing a fantastic job at mayoral and local level. This is why having competent politicians like Khan (don't agree with his very welcoming approach to multinationals, but I respect his ability and other policies) and Burnham in important cities is key. A good job in Manchester and the north especially, all while helping HQ, could be crucial in regaining the lost votes to UKIP. Of course, it could be like the PCI in Italy which were fantastic at a local level and non-corrupt, helping cities like Bologna and Florence to become vibrant and affluent but being feared and stereotyped and so never reaching national power.

However, a strong interventionist left wing economic message with a clear goal to help working classes and middle classes especially, reduce the stupidly large inequality and increase social mobility would win an election. But there need to be clear ideas and strong facts behind it. And most importantly, there needs to be a united party.

 

[Brullnux]

Also, it would be cool for this thread to be more active and have more actual debate, instead of becoming my slightly hapless and typed-on-phone blog on British Politics

 

[Netserk]

Hopefully, Labour's meltdown and Conservatives' internal division will mean that Liberal Democrats will get a similar position as after the '10 election. It's really crazy how few seats that party (and UKIP for that matter) gets with your system.

 

[Brullnux]

The lib dems are led by an evangelical Christian who opposes gay marriage and had a bit of a nightmare on the floods. Coupled with a severe lack of ground force and lack of MPs means that I doubt they can do much. They are starting to try, though

 

[Netserk]

I hadn't even realized that Nick Clegg wasn't their leader anymore Just goes to show how little I've followed British politics, though it's not like the coverage is great here in Denmark.

 

[Brullnux]

I'll be honest, I'm not a very avid follower of Danish politics either. It's hard to keep up with foreign politics especially when your country doesn't really cover it. The inky one really covered in the UK is American politics, with the occasional article on European politics, and the rare one in S. America. And I mainly read the guardian, which is probably the best for this,

 

[Netserk]

Well, British politics is quite more important than Danish politics is, so I wouldn't expect you to But I'm definitely more up to date with Swedish, German and American politics than British (for some reason Norwegian politics isn't covered as much as one would expect, but then again most news outlets are from Copenhagen and so only a few km from Sweden, whereas Norway is far away from them).

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

I'll be honest, I'm not a very avid follower of Danish politics either. It's hard to keep up with foreign politics especially when your country doesn't really cover it. The inky one really covered in the UK is American politics, with the occasional article on European politics, and the rare one in S. America. And I mainly read the guardian, which is probably the best for this,

I don't think the uk media covers US politics. They occasionally reprint or try to outdo Obama's campaign ads, especially in an election year, but that's about it.

 

[ferryman]

Glasgow East MP, Natalie McGarry (SNP) has finally been charged with fraud by the Police after a lengthy investigation. This has been going on since last November when she withdrew from the party whip and sits as an Independent (nope not entirely sure what that means either!). I will assume she will stand down (tho not saying she is guilty, cos she ain't until proven so or acquitted) but this would lead to a very interesting by-election on a number of points at this time in Scottish/British politics.

Why? Glasgow East has traditionally been a Labour stronghold but some of the results over the last decade have had some remarkable swings by large margins from Labour to SNP to Labour and then back to SNP. On one hand some are saying the SNP have peaked but on the other Corbyn has just been given the nod but was/is opposed by Dugdale, the Scottish Labour leader. I guess, just watch this space...

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

I'll be honest, I'm not a very avid follower of Danish politics either. It's hard to keep up with foreign politics especially when your country doesn't really cover it. The inky one really covered in the UK is American politics, with the occasional article on European politics, and the rare one in S. America. And I mainly read the guardian, which is probably the best for this,

I don't think the uk media covers US politics. They occasionally reprint or try to outdo Obama's campaign ads, especially in an election year, but that's about it.

Not much different to the nyt or the Washington Post then

 

[snccdcno]

Re:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/18/new-ukip-leader-says-she-counts-vladimir-putin-as-a-political-hero

UKIP have been struggling to find an identity after Brexit, their only actual policy. There was the option of becoming a party that built upon their recent successes and continued to galvanize and take the votes of the usually Labour voting working classes, who might feel disenfranchised with Labour HQ and especially previous Labour administrations, all while maintaining a strong share of the Daily Mail reading Tory voting middle classes, to become a respectable (ish) protest force in British Politics. Instead, by electing Diane James, they have taken the other option, retreating back to the shadows where they originated from and rebecoming a fringe party. I don't want to speak too soon, but this could be the beginning of the end of an actual UKIP force of any strength.

Didn't last long, wonder if the big dog will make a comeback.

 

[Brullnux]

Yes. Yes he will. Good call

 

[Brullnux]

Well, the Tories seem hellbent on destroying the UK with incoherent plans and useless policies.

They want less non EU students, for no particular reason other than OnlY BriTs allowed mentality, a restriction on work visas (funny considering May was Home Secretary for six years yet never came up with this idea), and from now on anyone wishing to work in the NHS from outside the UK will do so on an interim basis. No joke. An interim basis until enough British physicians are trained up. This is from the party that wants to dissaude people from becoming doctors by having Hunt produce a medieval, orwellian plan for junior doctors. This plan puts the NHS at risk. I guess it's intentionally so ridiculously stupid, which would give them at least some merit as they achieve their goal of destroying the health service.

Oh, Amber Rudd (known tax avoider, and helped others do so too) is talking about British Jobs for British Workers. Ironically, this was also the
BNP's motto for the 2010 general. And this is from someone who pays British Tax in the canaries.

I actually struggle to believe that these people are going to lead us through the country's most important period in the last 50 years. Ridiculous.

 

[TheSpud]

I see Auntie Nicola has announced the first step towards another Indy Ref

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

I see Auntie Nicola has announced the first step towards another Indy Ref

Don't blame her. May is doing an awful job so far, she can actually win (unlikely though considering falling price of oil. However could manufacturing businesses relocate to an independent Scotland still in the EU?)

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

I see Auntie Nicola has announced the first step towards another Indy Ref

Don't blame her. May is doing an awful job so far, she can actually win (unlikely though considering falling price of oil. However could manufacturing businesses relocate to an independent Scotland still in the EU?)

That depends on whether Scotland could stay in the EU, or apply to rejoin - given their deficit they technically run they wouldn't fulfil the criteria, although the EU do have a habit of being 'flexible' with those rules.

I'd be surprised if Sturgeon goes through with it - given the state of Scottish finances there would be a great deal on pain if they were independent. In which case the SNP would be finished. And if she loses the referendum then the SNP would also be finished. Interesting times.

 

[King Boonen]

The biggest obstacle to Scotland remaining part of the EU is Spain, I think we basically have no chance of remaining in the EU if we go independent and I think Spain would veto any attempt of an independent application. Basically, we're going to get screwed by Westminster and were always going to on this point no matter what we did.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

The biggest obstacle to Scotland remaining part of the EU is Spain, I think we basically have no chance of remaining in the EU if we go independent and I think Spain would veto any attempt of an independent application. Basically, we're going to get screwed by Westminster and were always going to on this point no matter what we did.

I'm English so I don't have the full picture on this (or the emotional ties) but my view is that Sturgeon should use Brexit to get a better devolution deal from London. That could include having immigration powers for Scotland devolved, more flexible tax and spend powers, Trident moved out (e.g. to Liverpool, Plymouth, Southampton). I'm not sure threatening independence will hold much sway with the non-Scots, or the more senior Conservatives, after all no Scotland = almost permanent Conservative government in England & Wales.

 

[King Boonen]

The SNP takeover of Westminster seats has pretty much guaranteed that anyway (not blaming them, that's just the way it is). I don't really see what we have to deal with if independence isn't a threat. The legal threat of devolved governments blocking Brexit is about it and that's a pipedream.

I can't see us getting much more in the way of devolved powers. There is a point where Tax has to be tied to the rest of the UK as we share a currency and with the current climate the only way we would get immigration powers devolved is if there was a border set up between Scotland and England.

Trident is a very difficult one, really Scotland would want it eliminated rather than relocated. Relocating it would be very bad for Helensburgh and the surrounding area, a lot of jobs are tied to the base and the removal of the storage facility from Coulport would likely mean that the base at Faslane would close or be severely downsized. Also, I don't think the Trident missiles are actually stored in Coulport. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure they are only there while the subs are being serviced/docked at Faslane. The actual missile pool is in Georgia.