British politics

[macbindle]

The problem with the whole issue is that there is a concerted campaign from the Israeli lobby to label any criticism of Israel's actions (ie. ethnic cleansing, terrorism, murder etc) as anti-semitic.

The Labour party, being ideologically opposed to ethnic-cleansing and terrorism, is critical of Israeli politics and there have been some very prominent Jewish Labour politicians, such as Gerald Kaufman, who have been outspoken in their support for a fair treatment of the Palestinians. Such people have often been labelled 'self-hating Jews.

The Conservatives are very much aligned with the Israeli government, and quite naturally will not eschew an opportunity to smear Corbyn, now that he looks like a threat to their grip on power. You only have to ask the question of why this furore over Corbyn's mural comments didn't occur when he made them, six years ago, as a back benches.

Of course that isn't to say that there isn't anti-semitism within the Labour party, and anti-semites will quite naturally exploit any opportunity.

 

[del1962]

Anyway its not about the Tories, the people complaing about Corbyn are not generally Tories but many are Labour MPs.

 

[King Boonen]

Party politics isn't limited to inter-party politics.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

The problem with the whole issue is that there is a concerted campaign from the Israeli lobby to label any criticism of Israel's actions (ie. ethnic cleansing, terrorism, murder etc) as anti-semitic.

The Labour party, being ideologically opposed to ethnic-cleansing and terrorism, is critical of Israeli politics and there have been some very prominent Jewish Labour politicians, such as Gerald Kaufman, who have been outspoken in their support for a fair treatment of the Palestinians. Such people have often been labelled 'self-hating Jews.

The Conservatives are very much aligned with the Israeli government, and quite naturally will not eschew an opportunity to smear Corbyn, now that he looks like a threat to their grip on power. You only have to ask the question of why this furore over Corbyn's mural comments didn't occur when he made them, six years ago, as a back benches.

Of course that isn't to say that there isn't anti-semitism within the Labour party, and anti-semites will quite naturally exploit any opportunity.

It's not just Israel. The common stereotype of rich Jewish people also makes them an easy target for far-left political activists with strong socialist and communist opinions. It's important that large efforts are made to avoid this.

Yes, anti-Semites will exploit any opportunity. Any politician wishing to criticise Israel, hyper-wealthy people must ensure they make unambiguous arguments that cannot be used by those wishing to exploit them, or their message will be lost.

I am sure a large part of this is coming from those who oppose Corbyn and his politics, both outside and within the Labour party. They have seen he has the support of the base so they are trying to undermine that. If Jeremy's voting record and activism is looked at it is absurd to accuse him of being a racist, but he must make sure that any argument he makes cannot be used by those who are.


As for why it didn't come up 6 years ago, of course it's to do with him now being the leader. That's not an issue though, it's likely it has only really come to light to many people recently so there is no problem with them asking for an explanation. I see the artist has given statements saying it is not anti-semetic, but I've also seen other (I think earlier) statements that can certainly be interpreted as anti-semetic.

It's a very fine line at times, it's the commenters job to walk it.

 

[macbindle]

I think the mural employs well-known anti-semitic tropes. The caricatures also closely reassemble the 'eternal Jew' from 1930s Nazi propaganda. The artist has said that some of the people are depictions of Jews.

It's a weird time in politics. Both main parties are split by both Brexit AND dislike of their leaders.

I don't think anti-semitism is a party issue. It's everywhere in varying degrees, but as burning issues go it is quite a way from top of the list.

I agree with you about Corbyn and racism, and it is worth making the point that being anti-Israeli occupation is to some extent anti-racist.

 

[macbindle]

Re:

Anyway its not about the Tories, the people complaing about Corbyn are not generally Tories but many are Labour MPs.

A few weeks ago the press was full of stuff about Corbyn being a Commie Spy. Then last week it was all about Corbyn being a supporter of Putin. This week he's an anti-semite.

What do you think it will be next week?

Do you really think all of this is being generated from within the Labour party?

No, me neither.

 

[del1962]

Its because they are true, do you think we should let up on Trump because of the things he does too?

 

[macbindle]

Syntax not your strong point, I see.

 

[python]

...so the british, the eu and many other 'allies' expelling the diplomats did not seem to stop vlad from a stiff retaliation. and in the case of the uk particularly, though it was kinda de-emphasized in the west's media, he went above and beyond the parity tit-for-tat.

today i hear he gave the uk a month, which looks rather civil on the surface, to voluntarily equalize the diplomatic staff in the moscow british embassy to the russian one in london...apparently, there are many more brits serving/visa-issuing/spying/ sniffing in the moscow embassy than the rusian dip staff in london. vlad in essence implemented another expulsion of the british as a follow up to the london expulsion of 23 russians. by demanding the numeric parity is sending the brits a message that he wont stop if the brits attempt to change the parity....

why is he playing the tough ball ? was it what theresa expected ? what is she going to do next in response the vlad's defacto fu ?

 

[aphronesis]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/17/morrissey-denounces-halal-meat-as-evil-attacks-theresa-may-diane-abbott-sadiq-khan-isis-for-britain?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[macbindle]

I've always resented that whiney c**t for ruining Johnny Marr's beautiful guitar playing.

 

[aphronesis]

Hey, I thought the 80s were grim too, but couldn’t see finding solace in him.

 

[macbindle]

This week's hot topic in British politics is the Windrush debacle.

Summed up here by off-camera news reporter, Jonathan Pie

https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/1537718273017727/

 

[python]

How Britain engaged in a covert operation to overthrow Assad
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/how-britain-engaged-covert-operation-overthrow-assad-1437573498

 

[macbindle]

No ***.

It's hardly news. It's widely known that UKSF (Along with several other nations) are heavily involved in training Syrian opposition forces. They would be more heavily involved had parliament voted against wider action in 2013(?).

The name of the game is holding back Iranian and Russian influence in the area. Abject failure on both goals, and yes, it has almost certainly prolonged the civil war.

 

[python]

No ***. indeed. arming, and fermenting radical jihadism....

The operation was not disclosed to US congressional intelligence committees as required by US law, and "the involvement of MI6 enabled the CIA to evade the law by classifying the mission as a liaison operation"
Hersh noted that "many of those in Syria who ultimately received the weapons were jihadists", some affiliated with al-Qaeda. Indeed, it is believed that Qatar – which was the UK's key ally in overthrowing Gaddafi and was now repeating its role in Syria – was pouring weapons and cash into Nusra. The Telegraph reported on a Middle Eastern diplomat saying that Qatar is responsible for Nusra "having money and weapons and everything they need"..

Lord Ashdown, the former Liberal Democrat leader, later said this massive quantity of arms ended up going "almost exclusively to the more jihadist groups". Nusra and another hardline Islamist group, Ahrar al-Sham,

In Autumn 2013, Britain began a major refocus of its campaign to support the Syrian opposition, known to be dominated and driven by extremists and jihadists

It is not clear which militant groups British officials met, but a new coalition, the Islamic Front, emerged around this time, and included Jaish al-Islam and Ahrar al-Sham. The latter had regularly worked with Nusra and IS until January 2014. Ahrar al-Sham's co-founder, Abu Khalid al-Suri, was al-Qaeda’s representative in Syria before being killed in February 2014, and he was linked to the 2004 Madrid bombing through a series of money transfers and personal contacts.

etc

 

[macbindle]

Of course. I think we have all noticed that the Russians and the US (most overtly) are claiming to be doing the same job in Syria....eradicating IS.

 

[aphronesis]

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n09/david-runciman/too-few-to-mention?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4009+US&utm_content=usca_nonsubs_issue

 

[macbindle]

Oh god. Did you have to?

I had, for a brief moment, forgotten about Brexit.

 

[aphronesis]

Just passing it along. Gearing up for the summer holidays and the state of the topic.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

Of course. I think we have all noticed that the Russians and the US (most overtly) are claiming to be doing the same job in Syria....eradicating IS.

Yup, and making Syria safe for the butcher of Damascus..

 

[Jagartrott]

Interesting side story:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/26/chicken-health-fear-chlorine-washing-fails-bacteria-tests-brexit-salmonella-listeria

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...former-british-minister-malcolm-rifkind-calls

Hong Kong’s role in a pan-Asia secret rendition programme run by US and British intelligence services should be scrutinised as part of a top-level inquiry, a former British cabinet member has said.

The call from former foreign secretary Malcolm Rifkind came as it emerged a prominent human rights barrister retained to pursue legal action against the Hong Kong government over an alleged role in the CIA and MI6-led rendition programme – which included cloak-and-dagger operations in Malaysia and Thailand – was no longer involved in the case.

The new probe became a possibility after Britain issued a full public apology earlier in May to Abdul Hakim Belhaj – an opponent of Libya’s then ruling regime led by the late dictator Colonel Muammar Gaddafi.

In 2004, Belhaj and his wife Fatima Boudchar – who was 4½ months pregnant at the time – were abducted in Kuala Lumpur following a tip-off from Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service (SIS or MI6) before being transferred to an alleged CIA black site in Thailand.

The couple were taken to Libya, where they were tortured and Belhaj was sentenced to death. The couple were subsequently released.

While the Belhaj ordeal has remained in the headlines, an almost identical case – also in 2004 – in which senior Hong Kong officials allegedly sanctioned an illegal detention and secret rendition on the say-so of US and British intelligence, has received scant coverage.

It involved the 12-day detention at Hong Kong International Airport of Libyan national Sami al-Saadi, his wife and their four young children, followed by their forced repatriation – also via Thailand – to the Tripoli torture cells of the Gaddafi regime.

Maybe the new CIA head can help out ...

 

[python]

hard to tell is this should credit the 'british journalism' or one of its humble servants

https://twitter.com/gullyburrows/status/1001359805624274945/video/1

 

[Brullnux]

I think the elephant, it has great timing.