Brits don't dope?

[The Hitch]

Re:

I think I need to buy shares in tin foil. So many hats being made here.

I'm sure there were political implications of Kenny being DQ'd last night, but the real reason was that there was no conclusive proof they overtook the durny bike. Yes, from one particular angle it looked like they overtook it, but it was marginal As the British coach said, there was no finish line camera at the point where the durny comes off, and had Kenny been DQ'd, there would have been a huge protest and appeal. Not good for business. And, of course, allowing Kenny to restart meant they couldn't kick the German off for an even more clear infringement. So, all in all, a bit of a farce. But conspiracy? Nah.

And the Cav thing? Riders in the race recognised it wasn't deliberate. It's only non-riders in the Twittersphere that were howling for Cav to be DQ'd.

It's strange that so many people are convinced that Brits are doping. THEY HAVE PROOF! And that proof is - results. Which, of course, isn't proof, otherwise they'd be done for it. As someone said upthread, there has been nothing from riders, ex-riders, sacked riders, anyone, to say that GB / Sky are doping. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. I suppose the reason for that is that ... CONSPIRACY! Everyone is involved - UCI, Team GB, Sky, WADA, UKADA, yada yada yada.

Or, maybe, they really aren't doping.

Do you think radcliffe doped?

 

[Benotti69]

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/765853836066062336
‏@petercossins
French coaching dir Jacquet admits to "problem of leadership, of management" in @lequipe . Says team sprint trio were a team in name only


https://twitter.com/Doctor_Hutch/status/765855244412649472
‏@petercossins
Jacques apparently looking for a Shane Sutton-type figure as link between him and track coaches

I see this post was studiously ignored, despite providing good evidence why the French team was so far off the pace. Certainly Pervis was nowhere near his 2013 'peak' and mostly looked like someone had shot his cat.

What evidence does it provide?

Looking like someone shot his cat is probably caused by how much doping he took and still got little to show for it!

As for the claim by TeamGB coaches that other teams were off form. Most of the other riders, if not all, beat their WC times at this Olympics.

No one doubts the French would love to dope to the levels and beyond of their competitors, same goes for all the other nations! They all have history of doping.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic.

No need to visit the clinic if you just come to scoff at those who post here.

I doubt that anyone comes to scoff. I tend not to post because it usually turns into a waste of time, either because of being ignored or being vilified by some.

There are posters who see some of these things in less than black and white. They see grey because they are not persuaded by the same things as others. They have a point of view and unless you prefer censorship they should be free to express it.

The clinic should never be an echo chamber for people of identical points of view. What's the point of that? Those who don't agree with you are often as sincere as you think yourself to be.

 

[BullsFan22]

I am not sure if this has a place here, but since it involves British athletes, I'll summarize:

Yesterday in one of the 1500m men's heats, Filip Ingebritsen, a Norwegian, who along with his older brother Henrik, are two of the medal contenders. Originally, Ingebritsen qualified from his heat, but the Brits filed a protest and Ingebritsen was DQ'd for obstruction.

I haven't seen actual footage of the race, but these 1500m heats tend to be pretty frantic and tight. It's actually miraculous that more falls, obstructions, and protests/relegations or outright disqualifications don't occur. That said, Ingebritsen's dq must have been obvious, though it took a protest from the Brits for the official result to take place. Anyone see that particular race? Do the Brits hold power there as well? Lord Coe?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic.

No need to visit the clinic if you just come to scoff at those who post here.

I doubt that anyone comes to scoff. I tend not to post because it usually turns into a waste of time, either because of being ignored or being vilified by some.

There are posters who see some of these things in less than black and white. They see grey because they are not persuaded by the same things as others. They have a point of view and unless you prefer censorship they should be free to express it.

The clinic should never be an echo chamber for people of identical points of view. What's the point of that? Those who don't agree with you are often as sincere as you think yourself to be.

I never argued for an echo chamber. Doolols called it a rarefied atmosphere. I consider that scoffing. There is a rainbow of opinion and debate in here. Those that deny that are not reading it properly.

I dont prefer censorship and i dont like the insinuation you are making,

 

[BullsFan22]

I am not sure if this has a place here, but since it involves British athletes, I'll summarize:

Yesterday in one of the 1500m men's heats, Filip Ingebritsen, a Norwegian, who along with his older brother Henrik, are two of the medal contenders. Originally, Ingebritsen qualified from his heat, but the Brits filed a protest and Ingebritsen was DQ'd for obstruction.

I haven't seen actual footage of the race, but these 1500m heats tend to be pretty frantic and tight. It's actually miraculous that more falls, obstructions, and protests/relegations or outright disqualifications don't occur. That said, Ingebritsen's dq must have been obvious, though it took a protest from the Brits for the official result to take place. Anyone see that particular race? Do the Brits hold power there as well? Lord Coe?

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

I am not sure if this has a place here, but since it involves British athletes, I'll summarize:

Yesterday in one of the 1500m men's heats, Filip Ingebritsen, a Norwegian, who along with his older brother Henrik, are two of the medal contenders. Originally, Ingebritsen qualified from his heat, but the Brits filed a protest and Ingebritsen was DQ'd for obstruction.

I haven't seen actual footage of the race, but these 1500m heats tend to be pretty frantic and tight. It's actually miraculous that more falls, obstructions, and protests/relegations or outright disqualifications don't occur. That said, Ingebritsen's dq must have been obvious, though it took a protest from the Brits for the official result to take place. Anyone see that particular race? Do the Brits hold power there as well? Lord Coe?

It was a blatant shove out of the way rather than obstruction - he went for a gap that wasn't there and knocked Charlie Grice out of his stride. I wasn't surprised he was disqualified. What was a little more surprising was that Grice was reinstated, given that I'm not sure he'd have made it through anyway, but when it's just the heats, I guess it doesn't matter too much

 

[BullsFan22]

And I apologize for the above reply having gone through so many times. It didn't seem that it went through the first time, so I re-submitted. Sorry about that. Wasn't trying to prove a point submitting the same thing three times, lol!

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic.

No need to visit the clinic if you just come to scoff at those who post here.

I doubt that anyone comes to scoff. I tend not to post because it usually turns into a waste of time, either because of being ignored or being vilified by some.

There are posters who see some of these things in less than black and white. They see grey because they are not persuaded by the same things as others. They have a point of view and unless you prefer censorship they should be free to express it.

The clinic should never be an echo chamber for people of identical points of view. What's the point of that? Those who don't agree with you are often as sincere as you think yourself to be.

I never argued for an echo chamber. Doolols called it a rarefied atmosphere. I consider that scoffing. There is a rainbow of opinion and debate in here. Those that deny that are not reading it properly.

I dont prefer censorship and i dont like the insinuation you are making,

Well again, it's a matter of opinion and I don't intend any personal attack on you, except to observe that if you say someone need not post here you attempt to exclude that view. If he took your advice and did not post again nobody would see what he would have said! Not censorship perhaps, but only because we would never know what would have been said. Attempted exclusion may be a better description.

I am not attempting to exclude anyone and here is another insinuation i refute.

Doolols can debate and discuss doping in any manner he so chooses as long as it is within the rules.

To scoff at the clinic is not doing so.

 

[pastronef]

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/765853836066062336
‏@petercossins
French coaching dir Jacquet admits to "problem of leadership, of management" in @lequipe . Says team sprint trio were a team in name only


https://twitter.com/Doctor_Hutch/status/765855244412649472
‏@petercossins
Jacques apparently looking for a Shane Sutton-type figure as link between him and track coaches

I see this post was studiously ignored, despite providing good evidence why the French team was so far off the pace. Certainly Pervis was nowhere near his 2013 'peak' and mostly looked like someone had shot his cat.

What evidence does it provide?

Looking like someone shot his cat is probably caused by how much doping he took and still got little to show for it!

As for the claim by TeamGB coaches that other teams were off form. Most of the other riders, if not all, beat their WC times at this Olympics.

No one doubts the French would love to dope to the levels and beyond of their competitors, same goes for all the other nations! They all have history of doping.

French "would dope" etc etc.

the thing I posted is about problems of leadership and management, and the team sprint trio "being a team in the name only" the is what the French coach says. (yes yes, they are liars, I know Beno)
it seems you just not only need dope.
if your coaches are not able to build a good team, manage the athletes, and the athletes dont go along with themselves, well that´s a problem.
GB team seems to have a strong group, well bond, and great coaches, thanks or despite Sutton´s legacy, take it as you like.
and that´s what I like, and what people dont like to admit, despite the French talking about their management/athletes relations problems. just legs strenght dont bring medals.
and I am not even moved by national bias, I´m Italian.

 

[wrinklyvet]

@Benotti - You don't like the truth then, when he says "Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic"?

I actually do believe that except in this place the majority of people can see innocence where you only see guilt, The atmosphere becomes rarefied when other views are not admissible. It is purely your judgement that he is scoffing. He merely points out that when you have decided on the guilt, as you clearly have in relation to the Brits, or possibly particualr Brits, everything you see reinforces that decision. If you haven't taken that stance, some things that you see are equally capable of another interpretation.

You see, if I post, it goes from bad to worse. Why the intolerance?

 

[buckle]

Re:

@Benotti - You don't like the truth then, when he says "Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic"?

I actually do believe that except in this place the majority of people can see innocence where you only see guilt, The atmosphere becomes rarefied when other views are not admissible. It is purely your judgement that he is scoffing. He merely points out that when you have decided on the guilt, as you clearly have in relation to the Brits, or possibly particualr Brits, everything you see reinforces that decision. If you haven't taken that stance, some things that you see are equally capable of another interpretation.

You see, if I post, it goes from bad to worse. Why the intolerance?

By majority, do you exclude the French, Germans and Australians who are posing the same questions as the Clinic?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

@Benotti - You don't like the truth then, when he says "Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic"?

I actually do believe that except in this place the majority of people can see innocence where you only see guilt, The atmosphere becomes rarefied when other views are not admissible. It is purely your judgement that he is scoffing. He merely points out that when you have decided on the guilt, as you clearly have in relation to the Brits, or possibly particualr Brits, everything you see reinforces that decision. If you haven't taken that stance, some things that you see are equally capable of another interpretation.

You see, if I post, it goes from bad to worse. Why the intolerance?

By majority, do you exclude the French, Germans and Australians who are posing the same questions as the Clinic?

If all the French, Germans and Italians with an interest in the Olympics were included, the questioners would surely not be in the majority. I was not referring solely to the Clinic and you can see that from what I wrote. If I am wrong, so be it. You and I will never know.

 

[Benotti69]

Iain Dyer

"If you look at some of the times that have been done here, some of the teams simply haven't shown up. That's the bottom line...some of the here are not even performing at the level of the world championships".

here's a table that shows this is demonstrably false.

https://twitter.com/Barking_Madness/status/765862565725470721

So a TeamGB coach tell lies. Now when they tell us they do it clean, why believe them?

 

[Nick C.]

Re:

Iain Dyer

"If you look at some of the times that have been done here, some of the teams simply haven't shown up. That's the bottom line...some of the here are not even performing at the level of the world championships".

here's a table that shows this is demonstrably false.

https://twitter.com/Barking_Madness/status/765862565725470721

So a TeamGB coach tell lies. Now when they tell us they do it clean, why believe them?

That is awesome. I saw the comment and thought perhaps they did have off days. But when both the Aussies and Danes had better times than in the Worlds, it is, as is said, a total lie by Dyer.

 

[iejeecee]

What is this then, the BBC actually posts a sceptical opinion on their Olympics live ticker. The world must be ending....

http://www.bbc.com/sport/live/olympics/36773039

Success is 'impossible without doping'
Posted at 20:03
Andrei Arshavin
Getty Images

You may have never wondered what former Arsenal forward Andrei Arshavin's view on doping is, but it is certainly interesting.

The Russian has said that all athletes in certain sports use banned performance-enhancing drugs.

Success in "cyclic sports", which require repetitive movements, is "simply impossible without doping," he said.

"That means swimming, skiing, cycling. I think everyone dopes."

 

[Benotti69]

Poland's Damian Zielinski, who finished outside the medals in the Keirin

They didn't want to retake the medals from the guys, he said. I think normally, they should be disqualified, but you cannot argue with the judges.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

What is this then, the BBC actually posts a sceptical opinion on their Olympics live ticker. The world must be ending....

http://www.bbc.com/sport/live/olympics/36773039

Success is 'impossible without doping'
Posted at 20:03
Andrei Arshavin
Getty Images

You may have never wondered what former Arsenal forward Andrei Arshavin's view on doping is, but it is certainly interesting.

The Russian has said that all athletes in certain sports use banned performance-enhancing drugs.

Success in "cyclic sports", which require repetitive movements, is "simply impossible without doping," he said.

"That means swimming, skiing, cycling. I think everyone dopes."

Was he talking about Russians specifically or 'everyone?'

 

[iejeecee]

Re: Re:

Was he talking about Russians specifically or 'everyone?'

There is only one country successful in cycling and it ain't the Russians.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

What is this then, the BBC actually posts a sceptical opinion on their Olympics live ticker. The world must be ending....

http://www.bbc.com/sport/live/olympics/36773039

Success is 'impossible without doping'
Posted at 20:03
Andrei Arshavin
Getty Images

You may have never wondered what former Arsenal forward Andrei Arshavin's view on doping is, but it is certainly interesting.

The Russian has said that all athletes in certain sports use banned performance-enhancing drugs.

Success in "cyclic sports", which require repetitive movements, is "simply impossible without doping," he said.

"That means swimming, skiing, cycling. I think everyone dopes."

Was he talking about Russians specifically or 'everyone?'

See also http://www.nation.co.ke/sports/football/Some-sports-impossible-without-doping-says-Andrei-Arshavin/1102-3348456-t3qior/index.html

The former captain of the Russian national team said that football and hockey, sports his country takes deep pride in, are relatively unaffected by doping.

I think he meant everyone everywhere (except of course in football and hockey). Really helpful stuff.

 

[iejeecee]

Re: Re:

The former captain of the Russian national team said that football and hockey, sports his country takes deep pride in, are relatively unaffected by doping.

I think he meant everyone everywhere (except of course in football and hockey). Really helpful stuff.

Arsenal could be a exception considering their results :lol:

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

The former captain of the Russian national team said that football and hockey, sports his country takes deep pride in, are relatively unaffected by doping.

I think he meant everyone everywhere (except of course in football and hockey). Really helpful stuff.

Arsenal could be a exception considering their results :lol:

Since hockey and football are the two biggest sports in Russia, he didn't want to 'offend' anyone and become a potential target.

As far as Arsenal are concerned, the bastion of 'clean' sport, Arsene Wenger, has been very 'outspoken' about doping in football. He takes great pride in the fact that Arsenal compete clean.

As a Liverpool fan, I believe him....

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/17/olympics-hysteria-britain-turned-soviet-team-gb

Interesting article from Simon Jenkins of the Guardian - stops short of accusing Britain of widespread doping but at least it's a sceptical article for once

 

[Lyon]

1. Nobody believes that only the British use drugs.
2. Nobody believes that drugs is the only thing that explains British success.

Let's move the discussion forward.

 

[buckle]

Re:

1. Nobody believes that only the British use drugs.
2. Nobody believes that drugs is the only thing that explains British success.

Let's move the discussion forward.

There are plenty of other threads in the clinic which discuss the doping habits of johnny foreigner. This one specifically addresses British doping.