Brits don't dope?

[bikenrrd]

Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

The UK isn't a "smaller" nation, it's the 22nd most populous nation on Earth, the 3rd most populous in Europe, and the 4th wealthiest (by net wealth) in the world. The GDR, by the time of its dissolution had approximately 4 times less population, and it certainly wasn't wealthy.

So, no fact there.

Any of the wealthy and populous countries should be finishing in the top 10 of the Olympic medal table. Finishing 2nd (I think the UK will finish about 4th though) would be an outlier.

I'm completely open to the idea of the UK doping within disciplines, as I think every other nation who factors in the medals is as well. However, some of the hyperbole on this thread is just outstanding, and bereft of any critical thinking.

 

[bikenrrd]

Re:

Well, the keirin race was such an obvious example of the big guys getting away with murder that it's not even funny. Zero out of three pretty straightforward DQs were handed out.

I agree, Kenny and Awang should have been DQed in the first start, Eilers in the 2nd start. However, once they'd allowed Kenny and Awang to race again, any subsequent restart had to allow all the riders to start. This has nothing to do with doping though!

Kristina Vogel was funny. And a deserving winner.

 

[elduggo]

Re:

Every member of TeamGB cycling has won a medal at Rio!!!!

That level of dominance not normal.

and some riders (Laura Trott) have won gold medals in every Olympic event they've ever participated in.

Not normal.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

The UK isn't a "smaller" nation, it's the 22nd most populous nation on Earth, the 3rd most populous in Europe, and the 4th wealthiest (by net wealth) in the world. The GDR, by the time of its dissolution had approximately 4 times less population, and it certainly wasn't wealthy.

So, no fact there.

Any of the wealthy and populous countries should be finishing in the top 10 of the Olympic medal table. Finishing 2nd (I think the UK will finish about 4th though) would be an outlier.

I'm completely open to the idea of the UK doping within disciplines, as I think every other nation who factors in the medals is as well. However, some of the hyperbole on this thread is just outstanding, and bereft of any critical thinking.

Smaller means more small. The UK is smaller than the us and China. By quite a bit.

 

[bikenrrd]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

The UK isn't a "smaller" nation, it's the 22nd most populous nation on Earth, the 3rd most populous in Europe, and the 4th wealthiest (by net wealth) in the world. The GDR, by the time of its dissolution had approximately 4 times less population, and it certainly wasn't wealthy.

So, no fact there.

Any of the wealthy and populous countries should be finishing in the top 10 of the Olympic medal table. Finishing 2nd (I think the UK will finish about 4th though) would be an outlier.

I'm completely open to the idea of the UK doping within disciplines, as I think every other nation who factors in the medals is as well. However, some of the hyperbole on this thread is just outstanding, and bereft of any critical thinking.

Smaller means more small. The UK is smaller than the us and China. By quite a bit.

And Indonesia. Don't forget Indonesia.

 

[simoni]

Re:

Every member of TeamGB cycling has won a medal at Rio!!!!

That level of dominance not normal.

Its not actually that odd when you think about it given that a good pursuiter will usually be well suited to a good number of the omnium events and a good sprinter will be well suited to all of the sprinting events to some degree. The way the track programme is at the Olympics lends itself to this sort of thing.

What is "not normal" is how lucky the brits have generally been. Its one thing having the legs, another consistently not having any accidents or making tactical mistakes (or fortunately avoiding a DQ...)

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

The UK isn't a "smaller" nation, it's the 22nd most populous nation on Earth, the 3rd most populous in Europe, and the 4th wealthiest (by net wealth) in the world. The GDR, by the time of its dissolution had approximately 4 times less population, and it certainly wasn't wealthy.

So, no fact there.

Any of the wealthy and populous countries should be finishing in the top 10 of the Olympic medal table. Finishing 2nd (I think the UK will finish about 4th though) would be an outlier.

I'm completely open to the idea of the UK doping within disciplines, as I think every other nation who factors in the medals is as well. However, some of the hyperbole on this thread is just outstanding, and bereft of any critical thinking.

There was I thinking wealth was the key ...

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

Good one. Saddle sores and science.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/aug/15/team-gb-cycling-saddle-sore-medals?CMP=fb_gu

Actually this is one of the more believable stories. I know a number of people who groom in such a manner and they have confirmed the points in there.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Good one. Saddle sores and science.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/aug/15/team-gb-cycling-saddle-sore-medals?CMP=fb_gu

Actually this is one of the more believable stories. I know a number of people who groom in such a manner and they have confirmed the points in there.

So it's not just Team GB who do this, it's fairly well known, no?

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Good one. Saddle sores and science.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/aug/15/team-gb-cycling-saddle-sore-medals?CMP=fb_gu

Actually this is one of the more believable stories. I know a number of people who groom in such a manner and they have confirmed the points in there.

So it's not just Team GB who do this, it's fairly well known, no?

I don't know if its fairly well known in cycling circles - just that my friends confirm the tenderness issues, ingrowing hairs, etc.

I don't know if that explains why Brad now has a beard :lol:

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

The UK isn't a "smaller" nation, it's the 22nd most populous nation on Earth, the 3rd most populous in Europe, and the 4th wealthiest (by net wealth) in the world. The GDR, by the time of its dissolution had approximately 4 times less population, and it certainly wasn't wealthy.

So, no fact there.

Any of the wealthy and populous countries should be finishing in the top 10 of the Olympic medal table. Finishing 2nd (I think the UK will finish about 4th though) would be an outlier.

I'm completely open to the idea of the UK doping within disciplines, as I think every other nation who factors in the medals is as well. However, some of the hyperbole on this thread is just outstanding, and bereft of any critical thinking.

Smaller means more small. The UK is smaller than the us and China. By quite a bit.

using that logic the USA is also a small nation. being smaller than china, by quite a lot.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Marginal agains
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/16/british-cycling-head-coach-hits-back-rivals

The Great Britain sprint coach, Justin Grace, said there was no secret behind his team’s success. He told L’Equipe . “When I was in New Zealand, I used to ask myself: ‘What’s special in Manchester?’ I can tell you: we do everything in every department a little bit better than the others, and that’s all. Don’t look: there’s no secret, no magic.

so no doping there then, move along.

 

[bikenrrd]

Re:

so no doping there then, move along.

Or they do the doping a little bit better than the others, as well as everything else.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

The UK isn't a "smaller" nation, it's the 22nd most populous nation on Earth, the 3rd most populous in Europe, and the 4th wealthiest (by net wealth) in the world. The GDR, by the time of its dissolution had approximately 4 times less population, and it certainly wasn't wealthy.

So, no fact there.

Any of the wealthy and populous countries should be finishing in the top 10 of the Olympic medal table. Finishing 2nd (I think the UK will finish about 4th though) would be an outlier.

I'm completely open to the idea of the UK doping within disciplines, as I think every other nation who factors in the medals is as well. However, some of the hyperbole on this thread is just outstanding, and bereft of any critical thinking.

22nd? You mean not top 10 or top 5.

So you are not one of the big boys. Fact. Thanks.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

One thing that should be considered is the fact that GB spend a similar amount of money on sport as USA and China, unlike any other nation these days

Another thing that should be considered is GB's strikingly quick, recent improvement in athletics, cycling, gymnastics and swimming: sports where there is definitely a high amount of suspicion regarding doping.
That said, they have also improved a lot in other sports such as diving, judo and canoeing, which are more skill based and less endurance based.

So while doping possibly does have a hand, the facilities and support available to British athletes is very very good, and there are many reasons why GB are doing so well, which can't be attributed purely to any doping programmes

Also, and I don't know how to say this, but the other guys might be doping too.
Having a better illegally performance-enhancing programme = having a better legal one, too.

They are all doping. I have no doubts about that.

But after last nights Keirin final where UCI broke it's own rules to ensure Kenny was not DQ'd shows that the doping along with UCI backing one horse in the race makes it easier to win.

Now with UCI backing, what are TeamGB up to as well as doping? Motors? What other forms of cheating are taking place that UCI are allowing TeamGB to do but not other nations?

 

[poupou]

Re:

Marginal agains
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/16/british-cycling-head-coach-hits-back-rivals

The Great Britain sprint coach, Justin Grace, said there was no secret behind his team’s success. He told L’Equipe . “When I was in New Zealand, I used to ask myself: ‘What’s special in Manchester?’ I can tell you: we do everything in every department a little bit better than the others, and that’s all. Don’t look: there’s no secret, no magic.

so no doping there then, move along.

You are misled...they do better in every department than others, ....including doping

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

One thing that should be considered is the fact that GB spend a similar amount of money on sport as USA and China, unlike any other nation these days

Another thing that should be considered is GB's strikingly quick, recent improvement in athletics, cycling, gymnastics and swimming: sports where there is definitely a high amount of suspicion regarding doping.
That said, they have also improved a lot in other sports such as diving, judo and canoeing, which are more skill based and less endurance based.

So while doping possibly does have a hand, the facilities and support available to British athletes is very very good, and there are many reasons why GB are doing so well, which can't be attributed purely to any doping programmes

Also, and I don't know how to say this, but the other guys might be doping too.
Having a better illegally performance-enhancing programme = having a better legal one, too.

They are all doping. I have no doubts about that.

But after last nights Keirin final where UCI broke it's own rules to ensure Kenny was not DQ'd shows that the doping along with UCI backing one horse in the race makes it easier to win.

Now with UCI backing, what are TeamGB up to as well as doping? Motors? What other forms of cheating are taking place that UCI are allowing TeamGB to do but not other nations?

Technically Awang overtook the Derney just before Kenny last night

 

[bikenrrd]

Re: Re:

22nd? You mean not top 10 or top 5.

So you are not one of the big boys. Fact. Thanks.

By your metric, India should be 2nd in the table. This really is the most stupid metric of determining a country's medal prospects I've ever heard of. Don't forget Indonesia!

 

[John Deathly]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

One thing that should be considered is the fact that GB spend a similar amount of money on sport as USA and China, unlike any other nation these days

Another thing that should be considered is GB's strikingly quick, recent improvement in athletics, cycling, gymnastics and swimming: sports where there is definitely a high amount of suspicion regarding doping.
That said, they have also improved a lot in other sports such as diving, judo and canoeing, which are more skill based and less endurance based.

So while doping possibly does have a hand, the facilities and support available to British athletes is very very good, and there are many reasons why GB are doing so well, which can't be attributed purely to any doping programmes

Also, and I don't know how to say this, but the other guys might be doping too.
Having a better illegally performance-enhancing programme = having a better legal one, too.

They are all doping. I have no doubts about that.

But after last nights Keirin final where UCI broke it's own rules to ensure Kenny was not DQ'd shows that the doping along with UCI backing one horse in the race makes it easier to win.

Now with UCI backing, what are TeamGB up to as well as doping? Motors? What other forms of cheating are taking place that UCI are allowing TeamGB to do but not other nations?

You've got zero proof. How can you say you've got no doubt. That level of certainty needs proof, not an opinion or a prejudice.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

One thing that should be considered is the fact that GB spend a similar amount of money on sport as USA and China, unlike any other nation these days

Another thing that should be considered is GB's strikingly quick, recent improvement in athletics, cycling, gymnastics and swimming: sports where there is definitely a high amount of suspicion regarding doping.
That said, they have also improved a lot in other sports such as diving, judo and canoeing, which are more skill based and less endurance based.

So while doping possibly does have a hand, the facilities and support available to British athletes is very very good, and there are many reasons why GB are doing so well, which can't be attributed purely to any doping programmes

Also, and I don't know how to say this, but the other guys might be doping too.
Having a better illegally performance-enhancing programme = having a better legal one, too.

They are all doping. I have no doubts about that.

But after last nights Keirin final where UCI broke it's own rules to ensure Kenny was not DQ'd shows that the doping along with UCI backing one horse in the race makes it easier to win.

Now with UCI backing, what are TeamGB up to as well as doping? Motors? What other forms of cheating are taking place that UCI are allowing TeamGB to do but not other nations?

Prove it, I would be extremely grateful if you did. But all I have ever heard from you is meaningless accusations and pointless drivel. If you are so sure they are doping then show me the evidence.

 

[sniper]

Matt, for the n-th time, the evidence is all over the internet. It's called 'the history of prosport and doping'.
Do your homework. Nobody needs to show you anything.

It's like somebody saying "people will die if we go to war"
and you asking "Show me the evidence".
Well the evidence lies in the history of going to war.

It's one of the main reasons why education in history is so important.
A society without historical knowledge is bound to repeat old mistakes. again, and again, and again.

British journalism provides a compelling case in point.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Matt, for the n-th time, the evidence is all over the internet. It's called 'the history of prosport and doping'.
Do your homework. Nobody needs to show you anything.

It's like somebody saying "people will die if we go to war"
and you asking "Show me the evidence".
Well the evidence lies in the history of going to war.

It's one of the main reasons why education in history is so important.
A society without historical knowledge is bound to repeat old mistakes. again, and again, and again.

British journalism provides a compelling case in point.

Ok then let's use Armstrong as an example from history. Where are the urine tests? Where are the allegations from ex riders and employees? Where are the books? Give me the hard details and evidence of such a plan within BC and Sky and I will condemn them but until then you have nothing but pointless drivel. Just crying "DOPER!" at people who win serves little to no purpose.

 

[sniper]

Just crying "HERO!" at people who win (as the majority of Brits do), serves even less purpose.

 

[Catwhoorg]

So 6/9 possible golds on the track (Missing Womens sprint and Kierin and Men onmium - in each case secured the silver)
11/12 possible medals (Callum missing out on an extra medal in mens Kierin)

 

[John Deathly]

Re:

Just crying "HERO!" at people who win (as the majority of Brits do), serves even less purpose.

What nationality are you out of interest? Just trying to understand the "Brits" theme.