Brits don't dope?

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Jul 29, 2016
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samhocking said:
Mayo from Mayo said:
rick james said:
Mayo from Mayo said:
rick james said:
For Queen and country
Be nice if the 3 'Brits' paid taxes to queen and country.

Do Andorrans and Monegasques dope?

their tax business has nothing to do with you
I'd have thought it may concern an uber fleg waving Brit like yourself.
Nobody has a problem with Sagan living in Monaco not paying his tax, but he's not British lol! Maybe Slovakians are up in arms about him?
You are not correct, next time try to read first, e.g.: https://spravy.pravda.sk/ekonomika/clanok/443081-dane-zaplatia-doma-uz-aj-sagan-ci-hantuchova/
 
Jul 29, 2016
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rick james said:
ngent41 said:
rick james said:
[quote="lartiste":38nsyyfg]Interesting, that the rise of anglo-saxons in GT is that connected with alleged use of motors in cycling. According to newest french book Varjas sold first small motor in late 1998. The information about motor doping spreaded about 2010.

First is coincidently connected with rise of Postal, second with Sky.
You know the guy that’s won the most for these Anglo Saxons that are on the rise is African
who does he ride for in the olympics?
yes the mighty Great Britain and Northern Ireland , but he is African, he was born in Africa....class him Anglo Saxon all you want but he isn't[/quote]


I am not sure where do you come from, since it most probably can influence your point of view. I will try to explain you basic principles concerning nationality and citizenship. In US it is based on soil (place of birth), but in Europe (with exception of Ireland if I remember correctly) on blood (nationality of parents). So the answer is here in wikipedia: "Froome, whose parents are British, was born in Kenya and grew up there and in South Africa." Simple as that.
 
samhocking said:
You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.
Every man jack (and woman it seems) doing sports nowadays has frickin' asthma. The bs with EIA is rampant. Can we blame it on global PM pollution maybe? :rolleyes:
 
samhocking said:
You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.
How familiar would you say Simon Yates was with all things asthma-related in this vid from 2014? He calls an inhaler a "puffer thing" and then drops it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRnInyTd8b8&feature=player_embedded#t=283

On balance, I'd say his "asthma" is caused by being a pro cyclist with access to a PED (given a doctor's note). I agree with you that TUE abuse is a trick available to all the top riders and it's probably just a #marginalgain
 
lartiste said:
rick james said:
ngent41 said:
rick james said:
[quote="lartiste":2ghr3eb6]Interesting, that the rise of anglo-saxons in GT is that connected with alleged use of motors in cycling. According to newest french book Varjas sold first small motor in late 1998. The information about motor doping spreaded about 2010.

First is coincidently connected with rise of Postal, second with Sky.
You know the guy that’s won the most for these Anglo Saxons that are on the rise is African
who does he ride for in the olympics?
yes the mighty Great Britain and Northern Ireland , but he is African, he was born in Africa....class him Anglo Saxon all you want but he isn't

I am not sure where do you come from, since it most probably can influence your point of view. I will try to explain you basic principles concerning nationality and citizenship. In US it is based on soil (place of birth), but in Europe (with exception of Ireland if I remember correctly) on blood (nationality of parents). So the answer is here in wikipedia: "Froome, whose parents are British, was born in Kenya and grew up there and in South Africa." Simple as that.[/quote]
Wiki you say.... that’s me convinced!


He is Kenyan
 
May 26, 2010
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rick james said:
Benotti69 said:
samhocking said:
Benotti69 said:
samhocking said:
I would need more evidence than that to consider him doping with Terb, sorry.
A 4 month ban for abanned substance.

No documentary proof of childhood asthma and of course you believe him.

:lol:

One born every minute.
He confirmed asthma since childhood with UCI.
He didn't produce evidence.
to you he didn't, he doesn't have to prove it to you
Amazingly Callum Skinner felt it was necessary.

But i supppose Uncle Brian would believe young Simon if Simon says........
 
May 26, 2010
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rick james said:
Benotti69 said:
samhocking said:
Yates TUE was already granted for asthma by UCI from what i've read about his case, it's just that the doctor failed to include terbutaline. ie he had a TUE for Salbutomol, but declared he had taken Terbutaline on his Paris Nice control form.
And just to prove to everyone he is on the up ( an English expression i believe), he produced historical documents proving he is a long time asthmatic.

Cycling has always been a sport where the culture to dope is the norm. Show me where and how that has changed that it is now possible for a clean rider to win a 3 week long endurance race over riders who are doping to beat the band!

you seem confused, you are the one claiming things, its up to you to show proof....and your opinion doesn't count for proof
Oh if only it was opinion Richard. Sadly it is long proven that nearly all GT winners are dopers, so if one wanted to be considered clean one must do the proving, well obviously not to guys like you, by the way i have a great pyramid scheme you and Samhocking would love, it has a unionjack logo too :lol:
 
May 26, 2010
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samhocking said:
You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.
How does a rider prove they have asthma. Oh yeah the team doctor paid for the team they ride for. Who accpets they have asthma, oh yeah the UCI, that organisation that hates doping and cheating!

Please Sam leave it out mate!

I would love to see Yates success explained how he, the cleanest of clean (oops please ignore ban and asthma), beat the dopers over 3 weeks.......probably wanted it more, trained harder, marginal gains, more focus, yada yada yada
 
May 26, 2010
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rick james said:
He is Kenyan
Funny that a guy who is Kenyan would ride for another country. Kind of cheating when you think about it. He rides for a country where he stands to gian a better advantage. Yep that is cheating.
 
Robert5091 said:
samhocking said:
You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.
Every man jack (and woman it seems) doing sports nowadays has frickin' asthma. The bs with EIA is rampant. Can we blame it on global PM pollution maybe? :rolleyes:
some numbers here: In less than twenty years, the percentage of asthmatics has increased by more than 40% in adolescents and in France, every ten minutes is born an asthmatic future. Each year, there are 2,000 deaths related to asthma. Review of details of a disease in full progress in France but also around the world.
Swiss specialists estimate that 8% of the population of their country suffer from asthma, against only 2% 25 or 30 years ago;
In Germany, it is estimated that there are 4 million asthmatics;
In the whole of Western Europe, according to a Belgian institute, the Institute of Allergology UBC, the incidence of asthma has doubled in ten years;
In the United States, the number of asthmatics has increased by more than 60% since the early 1980s and the number of deaths from the disease has doubled to 5,000 per year;
There are approximately 3 million asthmatics in Japan, of which 7% have severe asthma and 30% have moderate asthma;
In Australia, 1 child in 10 (under 16 years old) is affected.
http://www.doctissimo.fr/html/sante/mag_2000/mag0811/sa_2150_asthme.htm

Asthma in the world : The Global Asthma Report 2018. ... Asthma kills around 1000 people every day and affects as many as 339 million people - and prevalence is rising. Low- and middle-income countries disproportionally suffer the most severe cases.
global report 2018 : http://globalasthmareport.org/
 
Benotti69 said:
samhocking said:
You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.
How does a rider prove they have asthma. Oh yeah the team doctor paid for the team they ride for. Who accpets they have asthma, oh yeah the UCI, that organisation that hates doping and cheating!

Please Sam leave it out mate!

I would love to see Yates success explained how he, the cleanest of clean (oops please ignore ban and asthma), beat the dopers over 3 weeks.......probably wanted it more, trained harder, marginal gains, more focus, yada yada yada
I heard he was on his bike 6hrs a day...
 
Archibald said:
Benotti69 said:
samhocking said:
You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.
How does a rider prove they have asthma. Oh yeah the team doctor paid for the team they ride for. Who accpets they have asthma, oh yeah the UCI, that organisation that hates doping and cheating!

Please Sam leave it out mate!

I would love to see Yates success explained how he, the cleanest of clean (oops please ignore ban and asthma), beat the dopers over 3 weeks.......probably wanted it more, trained harder, marginal gains, more focus, yada yada yada
I heard he was on his bike 6hrs a day...
I think you're forgetting UCI don't know the result and rider name, until it comes back from WADA lab positive. All UCI knew was Yates TUE didn't match his Terbutaline declaration on his sample and what WADA lab found in that sample. All we know is team doctor failed to include Terbutaline on the TUE. Either he was given a Terbutaline inhaler instead of a Salbutomol one that wouldn't require a TUE, or most likely the TUE was for a steroid preventer and doctor simply didn't add the Terbutaline reliever on the form along with it that's all.
 
May 26, 2010
28,144
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samhocking said:
Archibald said:
Benotti69 said:
samhocking said:
You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.
How does a rider prove they have asthma. Oh yeah the team doctor paid for the team they ride for. Who accpets they have asthma, oh yeah the UCI, that organisation that hates doping and cheating!

Please Sam leave it out mate!

I would love to see Yates success explained how he, the cleanest of clean (oops please ignore ban and asthma), beat the dopers over 3 weeks.......probably wanted it more, trained harder, marginal gains, more focus, yada yada yada
I heard he was on his bike 6hrs a day...
I think you're forgetting UCI don't know the result and rider name, until it comes back from WADA lab positive. All UCI knew was Yates TUE didn't match his Terbutaline declaration on his sample and what WADA lab found in that sample. All we know is team doctor failed to include Terbutaline on the TUE. Either he was given a Terbutaline inhaler instead of a Salbutomol one that wouldn't require a TUE, or most likely the TUE was for a steroid preventer and doctor simply didn't add the Terbutaline reliever on the form along with it that's all.
Yes, the UCI been busting lots of big name riders, not.

Lots of conjecture is that statement.
 
Jul 29, 2016
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samhocking said:
lartiste said:
That amendment is simply adding residency in Slovakia, it's not forcing you to pay tax. As long as Sagan doesn't reside there, he won't pay any tax and 183 days still applies.
You did not get the point, you said that no one cares, this article is showing that you are not correct, that at least in Slovakia, they care. Second even you conclusions are not correct since the article says, that there is no agreement against double taxation between Monaco and Slovakia, therefore if he will stay one night in his flat in Slovakia, he will be taxed there.

But it is not most probably big issue for him.
 
Jul 29, 2016
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rick james said:
lartiste said:
rick james said:
ngent41 said:
rick james said:
[quote="lartiste"

yes the mighty Great Britain and Northern Ireland , but he is African, he was born in Africa....class him Anglo Saxon all you want but he isn't

I am not sure where do you come from, since it most probably can influence your point of view. I will try to explain you basic principles concerning nationality and citizenship. In US it is based on soil (place of birth), but in Europe (with exception of Ireland if I remember correctly) on blood (nationality of parents). So the answer is here in wikipedia: "Froome, whose parents are British, was born in Kenya and grew up there and in South Africa." Simple as that.
Wiki you say.... that’s me convinced!


He is Kenyan
Arguments or hearsay?
 
Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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samhocking said:
Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.
By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year
 
Re: Re:

Winterfold said:
samhocking said:
Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.
By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year
Considering the Daily Mail campaigned for Budd's father to apply for British Citizenship for her in the first place so she could compete and the British public largely supported that, I would say it's simply your personality, not nationality that decides who is liked more than others by British public really. For me, if your parents and grandparents are British, you are British, regardless of where you mum gave birth to you.
 
Re: Re:

samhocking said:
Winterfold said:
samhocking said:
Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.
By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year
Considering the Daily Mail campaigned for Budd's father to apply for British Citizenship for her in the first place so she could compete and the British public largely supported that, I would say it's simply your personality, not nationality that decides who is liked more than others by British public really. For me, if your parents and grandparents are British, you are British, regardless of where you mum gave birth to you.
Not according to the Government though. I'm unsure on Froome's specific case, but children born to parents who are themselves British by descent require additional paperwork and registration if their parents want them to be British citizens, it isn't assumed.
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
samhocking said:
Winterfold said:
samhocking said:
Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.
By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year
Considering the Daily Mail campaigned for Budd's father to apply for British Citizenship for her in the first place so she could compete and the British public largely supported that, I would say it's simply your personality, not nationality that decides who is liked more than others by British public really. For me, if your parents and grandparents are British, you are British, regardless of where you mum gave birth to you.
Not according to the Government though. I'm unsure on Froome's specific case, but children born to parents who are themselves British by descent require additional paperwork and registration if their parents want them to be British citizens, it isn't assumed.
I suspect that if he were not British he would not be holding a British passport, it's really as simple as that, so that anyone who doubts it is being a bit silly. Anyone who wants to refer to the law on this (and it's the law applicable to British nationality and not claims for other nationalities) can look at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/2
And it's quite right that you can't prove any nationality without applying for it.
 
Re: Re:

wrinklyvet said:
King Boonen said:
samhocking said:
Winterfold said:
samhocking said:
Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.
By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year
Considering the Daily Mail campaigned for Budd's father to apply for British Citizenship for her in the first place so she could compete and the British public largely supported that, I would say it's simply your personality, not nationality that decides who is liked more than others by British public really. For me, if your parents and grandparents are British, you are British, regardless of where you mum gave birth to you.
Not according to the Government though. I'm unsure on Froome's specific case, but children born to parents who are themselves British by descent require additional paperwork and registration if their parents want them to be British citizens, it isn't assumed.
I suspect that if he were not British he would not be holding a British passport, it's really as simple as that, so that anyone who doubts it is being a bit silly. Anyone who wants to refer to the law on this (and it's the law applicable to British nationality and not claims for other nationalities) can look at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/2
And it's quite right that you can't prove any nationality without applying for it.
Your post seems irrelevant to mine, I'm guessing you misunderstand it. I was specifically replying to the bolded part of SH's post, I really don't care what nationality people think Chris Froome is.
 

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