Brits don't dope?

[The Hitch]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/two-more-join-kenya-drugs-hall-of-shame-9929466.html

Why the needs to metion her in this?

The most important part of the article

Neither is a big name in global distance running, Kimetto’s most noticeable result being third place at the 2012 Athens Marathon

Small fish continue getting caught for doping while the ones who actually win supposedly all clean.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The most important part of the article

Small fish continue getting caught for doping while the ones who actually win supposedly all clean.

We now know they are most able to pay the six-figure bribes. Refunds if they get popped. That's good business!!

We also know the low ranked elite athletes in athletics make next to nothing.

 

[thehog]

We now know they are most able to pay the six-figure bribes. Refunds if they get popped. That's good business!!

We also know the low ranked elite athletes in athletics make next to nothing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/07/sports/07iht-train_ed3_.html

http://www.athleteslivehere.com/blo...ffe-how-she-overcame-exercise-induced-asthma/

She uses attitude tents and has a TUE for asthma?

Is she training the Dawg?

“It’s very important for me to warm up gently and gradually before I compete. This ensures that my asthma doesn’t interfere with my training,” she said regarding her training regimen.

Despite having to take peak flow readings and dealing with inhalers, she said the only other burden of having asthma is dealing with the Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE). The TUE is a test from the Anti-Doping Agency that proves she is asthmatic, because it can be used to mask other substances.

AH, the sacrifices required to be a great endurance athlete. The training that leaves you feeling like your lungs are several sizes too small. The strict diet. The constant travel and utterly uncertain long-term career prospects. The noise from the generator as you try to get some sleep inside the tent in your bedroom.

No, that bizarre last sentence is no editing error. The pursuit of sports excellence marches on. But is it progress when the chase obliges you to forgo your usual bedtime arrangements and zip yourself into damp, relatively cramped sleeping quarters designed to replicate high-altitude conditions in low places?

"It's obviously not as comfortable as a double bed," said the British track star Paula Radcliffe.

Altitude training has long been a pre-requisite for the world's elite runners, cross-country skiers and other endurance athletes. Lowlanders have been heading to the Alps or Rockies or Atlas mountains for decades in a successful attempt to increase their red blood cell counts.

But in the past decade, a high-tech shortcut has emerged.

First came the "altitude houses," developed by Finnish scientists in the early 1990s, in which nitrogen was pumped into a structure to create mountain air in mountain-free Finland. Now come the "altitude tents," many manufactured by an American company called Hypoxico and sold for several thousand dollars or more.

Sea-level air contains approximately 21 percent oxygen. The tents, with the generators doing the work, can reduce that by several percentage points, simulating altitudes of 9,000 feet (2,700 meters) or higher.

Shaun Wallace, a former British Olympic cyclist who is a Hypoxico vice president, estimates that 400 or more top athletes are using such tents. Besides Radcliffe, the converts include Lance Armstrong, the three-time Tour de France winner; Ed Moses, the American swimming world-record holder, and Michellie Jones, the Australian triathlete who won a silver medalist in last year's Olympics.

 

[oldcrank]

I'd like to join Paula's family, friends and
legion of fans world wide in wishing her
a very happy birthday.

Here's hoping that if the bairns can't bring
her a Full English Breakfast in bed to start
her special day perhaps Isla and Raphael
could at least present her with the Breakfast
of British Champions: a couple of slices of
Hovis wheatgerm toast with Marmite and a
chilled CNP Team Sky High Protein Smoothie.

All the best over the Holidays and in the New
Year as well Paula!

 

[blackcat]

I dont know whether you are from the UK or not but mentioning that mans name is pretty low.

1000+ potential victims. Totally irrelevant here. And if you are using 'empire crew' to tie us brits to him then please dont.

empire crew ftw

clean win a'course

 

[blackcat]

She trains in Eldoret with Mo Farah though, so since he is cleans she must be too. There is a bit of suspicion around the place though, she would be much better off high altitude training on Teide, she could even pick some marginal gains tips up from Sky. Clean hands clean blood.

you are formally invited to The Clinic 12 Chipist.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Well someone has changed their opinion a little bit.

Sarcasm, Hitch

 

[blackcat]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/two-more-join-kenya-drugs-hall-of-shame-9929466.html

Why the needs to metion her in this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout

 

[Digger]

That anyone believes in bolt brings it home how futile having a debate on any athlete is...because if you can't see it with bolt, and his links with Herrera, what's the point......

 

[blackcat]

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/07/sports/07iht-train_ed3_.html

http://www.athleteslivehere.com/blo...ffe-how-she-overcame-exercise-induced-asthma/

She uses attitude tents and has a TUE for asthma?

Is she training the Dawg?

no, she aint training doggy style.

that is for rowing coaches. triathlon coaches. and swimming coaches.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Had another, more relaxed read of the book chapter/paper.

Bear in mind that most graphs have basically 7 points/plots on them. Averaged values for a year is mutliple readings were taken. Data covers 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2001 and 2003, which takes her through her track time to the marathon WRs

Figure 3 showing VO2 max is basically flat (~ 70 ml/kg/min) with some variations. However the write up behind this figure shows a highest value of 80, and lowest of 65. This seems a little high for test variation by the same protocol by the same group. Averaging a high and a low value for a year to make it appear flatter clearly has happened.

I'd very much like to see the pre-averaged data (Chances of that is near zero of course).

Sow whilst at first glance the paper is written to show consistent Vo2 max, which would show that blood doping wasn't going on that may well not be the case in the nitty gritty details. Blood doping first and foremost affects the Vo2 max.

Figure 4 showing the Vo2 usage at 16 kmh (9.94 mph or basically right around 6 min/mile or 2:40 marathon pace) shows a massive drop, and the later figures show she really pushed her lactate curves shifted hugely from 1992 to 1998, then remained fairly constant through to 2003 (minor variations only).

HR at given speeds shows a similar trend (but annoyingly uses a different data set as it doesn't have 2001 and 2003, but does add 2002), by about 1998 the best condition was reached and she stayed there for 2002.



All in all its a PR piece rather than a substantial science study. For it to be good science the raw data needed to be included and a whole lot less 'averaging' of a years data to massage to the desired results.

There is nothing in the way of evidence for blood doping, nor is then any evidence of cleanliness (thanks to that averaging)

Now we go into rampant speculation:
One does wonder what was behind the massive shifts in running economy. Was it truly training loads (this period covers her from 18 to 29 a period when endurance athletes do develop), or was there something other helping her efficiency.

This is where I **** into the limits of my ignorance.
What would the profile of someone who was an early adopter of something AICAR look like in terms of efficiency ? (and I would note that AICAR wasn't on the prohibited list until much later). Its a little early for Peptide type hormones.

Couple this efficiency increase (however it came about) with good old fashioned almost undetectable (at the time) autologous transfusions, and thats a plausible way for her to beat the world record. (or she could have been just that good)

end speculation portion

I don't know she doped, and really this paper doesn't nothing to show evidence either way. It comes back to preconceived notions and ideas, and our biases.

I think the whole list of red flagged names should be released along with whatever data they have. (Offscores of 167 and 170 are being talked about, that's worse than JTL level doping). We, the public, deserve to know.

Athletics has been dirty long enough, maybe they need to really try to clean their own house and start again.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

70 seems low even for a woman given her world record pace over a 135 minute event. Pictures seem to indicate she is rake thin when competing, so 70 might sound impressive for a woman but the raw litres / minute wouldn't be all that high.

Is there a VO2max to running speed formula that can be used to calculate efficiency / % Vo2max ranges?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Obviously untainted readings are hard to come by, but 60-75 is the cited range for female distance runners. (There are 3 cites for that listed in the article, none of which I chased down)

Then it goes on to say that 5000m specialists tend to be the highest, with marathoners a little way back.

So its not way out of the ball park.

Ross has a decent series of 4 articles on running economy from a while back.

http://sportsscientists.com/2007/12/running-economy-introduction/
is the first part, then follow the links.

I don't think there is a direct formula.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Marathoners vo2 max is pretty irrelevent. Certainly not relevent in training. It is already not very useful for cycling, and marathoners do not red line multiple times with attacks.

Running economy is much more related to performance, as the paper suggests. Training does not change vo2 in any meaningful way[/]. Altitude can, and so does weight loss and gain. EPO does as well. I don't know how much to expect with each. I have some teammates numbers for altitude, but everyone is different.

Thanks for the in depth review. It doesnt sound useful for anything one way or the other.

 

[acoggan]

I downloaded it to read it later, but that was my immediate thought also. Another Ed Coyle fanboy piece. Do we have a Coggan analog to defend the "science" ad infinitum?

Go **** yourself.

 

[blackcat]

*deleted by mod*

that would be onanism.
a four asterisk onanism. * & * & * & *

were you aware, that cuddles was a fan of asterix. the belgian cartoon character penned by some antisemite?

 

[Parker]

that would be onanism.
a four asterisk onanism. * & * & * & *

were you aware, that cuddles was a fan of asterix. the belgian cartoon character penned by some antisemite?

Tintin. He's a fan of Tintin, not Asterix.

The writer of Tintin may have been an anti-semite, but probably wasn't. The writers of Asterix weren't though - one of them was Jewish. (And Asterix is French, Tintin is Belgian)

 

[del1962]

that would be onanism.
a four asterisk onanism. * & * & * & *

were you aware, that cuddles was a fan of asterix. the belgian cartoon character penned by some antisemite?

At least get some basic facts right

Belgium is not France and René Goscinny a polish Jewish immigrant is unlikely to be an anti-semite

Blackcat, You show more ignorance the more you post

 

[blackcat]

At least get some basic facts right

Belgium is not France and René Goscinny a polish Jewish immigrant is unlikely to be an anti-semite

Blackcat, You show more ignorance the more you post

tintin, asterix, same thing.

if you saw my reply for the tenor it was meant, i think the details mattered little. a little like for the sports scientists.

and they call economics the dull science.

 

[the sceptic]

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/07/sports/07iht-train_ed3_.html

http://www.athleteslivehere.com/blo...ffe-how-she-overcame-exercise-induced-asthma/

She uses attitude tents and has a TUE for asthma?

Is she training the Dawg?

She also calls out her competitors when they get a bit too good. Just like Dawg. And Lance.

"You would think that now China has the Olympics they would want to look like they wanted to clean things up," said Britain's Paula Radcliffe, the world cross country champion.

"After what happened last year it doesn't look good. You have to reserve judgment but, because of Ma's past, if there are good performances in Edmonton by Chinese athletes there is going to be scepticism."

 

[Hawkwood]

Asterix

tintin, asterix, same thing....

Weren't Asterix and his sidekick Obelix both on the juice, haven't heard any rumours about Tintin though?

 

[The Hitch]

That anyone believes in bolt brings it home how futile having a debate on any athlete is...because if you can't see it with bolt, and his links with Herrera, what's the point......

you mean heredia? I don't know about those links. I've looked for them a few times and it Mau have been a misunderstanding. It stems from one tweet conte made saying that he heard some other guy was going to reveal heredia is working with pacquiao and bolt, but nothing else ever happened.

Aside from that the best I found is this, which is very interesting in it's own way but doesn't make any direct connections between bolt and memo

It is kind of interesting that Memo testified in 2010 that he provided drugs to Jamaican sprinter and coach Raymond Stewart for a decade (1997-2006). Stewart was coached by Glenn Mills, who now coaches Usain Bolt. Wonder if this may eventually become a significant story?

 

[del1962]

tintin, asterix, same thing.

if you saw my reply for the tenor it was meant, i think the details mattered little. a little like for the sports scientists.

and they call economics the dull science.

Your posting style reminds me of a wild west cowboy, shooting everywhere, causing massive collateral damaga with little fact checking and not caring who gets caught in the crossfire

 

[grizzlee]

no, she aint training doggy style.

I nearly spat my coffee out at that statement, dunno if it was meant the way you wrote it, but quite funny all the same.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

you mean heredia? I don't know about those links. I've looked for them a few times and it Mau have been a misunderstanding. It stems from one tweet conte made saying that he heard some other guy was going to reveal heredia is working with pacquiao and bolt, but nothing else ever happened.

Aside from that the best I found is this, which is very interesting in it's own way but doesn't make any direct connections between bolt and memo

I remember a documentary making the link. It was focused on Heredia, and he even showed the journalist how to inject EPO. Try searching for something focused on him saying how easy it is to buy, smuggle and use. Thats what I remember at least.

Also, today is Radcliffe's birthday. 41 years young