Brits don't dope?

[The Hitch]

my point being ..........it's not all about team sky............while there are obvious links bringing in walsh seemed strange?

more relevant to myself here was that millar ( although he had served his ban )
was not wanted at the olympics by many (pobably the majority) brits

Mark L

Which has of course nothing to do with the point I made that db is portrayed by his dog as anti dopers, but never actually seems to have a problem picking one.

 

[blackcat]

Correct. Here is the relevant section quoted:

Millar was released 48 hours later after making a full confession. Brailsford had a dilemma: should he stay and support Millar or yield to Lisa's demand to go home? "I was obviously caught in the wrong place at the wrong time," he says, "and knew that there was no way people would believe - our sport being what it is - that I had nothing to do with this. But morally, somebody had to stay.

"They let [Millar] out through the back door [of the police station]," Brailsford adds. "I put him in the car and drove to our hotel and checked him into a room. He was emotional and in tears. We sat on a balcony, opened a bottle of wine and I said, 'Right, you better tell me what the f*** is going on'. And that was it."

everyone is searching for the truth.

i dont think it can be found, even with the papers, even with what kimmage and walsh were told off the record.

i dont think brailsford and millar are credible. what? 2 ampoules of edgar empty, and left on the fireplace? nothing about ceccho?

they are all lying. biarritz restaurant, or his biarritz pad.

but i cant prove they are lying. so you may just allege i am the liar in this embroglio.

 

[Rob27172]

Anyone who thinks that any olympic sport that is desperate for funding - and has to accept that the funding is linked to medal counts - and then has to accept that other nations have systematic doping going on (Russians, Germans, Australian Institute of sport, etc, etc) - then has to try to ensure that they are the best in the world to get the most funding they possibly can get - and THEN thinks that of course the best team in the world on the track wins because we all grow up in a country with no tracks to ride on and become natural superstar athletes - is in my opinion a rather naive fanboy at best and a complete idiot blinded by national pride at worst.
But that is what an opinion is, it is Personal and completely allowable.
And we don't even need to bring in the fact that the pure businessman that is DB was involved and brought in one of the most despised businessmen in the world in Rupert Murdoch alongside him.

DB and RM the two men who would do ANYTHING for world domination.

 

[andy1234]

Anyone who thinks that any olympic sport that is desperate for funding - and has to accept that the funding is linked to medal counts - and then has to accept that other nations have systematic doping going on (Russians, Germans, Australian Institute of sport, etc, etc) - then has to try to ensure that they are the best in the world to get the most funding they possibly can get - and THEN thinks that of course the best team in the world on the track wins because we all grow up in a country with no tracks to ride on and become natural superstar athletes - is in my opinion a rather naive fanboy at best and a complete idiot blinded by national pride at worst.
But that is what an opinion is, it is Personal and completely allowable.
And we don't even need to bring in the fact that the pure businessman that is DB was involved and brought in one of the most despised businessmen in the world in Rupert Murdoch alongside him.

DB and RM the two men who would do ANYTHING for world domination.

For the love of God, Rob27172, use some punctuation. "-' doesn't count.
Otherwise... carry on.....

 

[Benotti69]

Correct. Here is the relevant section quoted:

Millar was released 48 hours later after making a full confession. Brailsford had a dilemma: should he stay and support Millar or yield to Lisa's demand to go home? "I was obviously caught in the wrong place at the wrong time," he says, "and knew that there was no way people would believe - our sport being what it is - that I had nothing to do with this. But morally, somebody had to stay.

"They let [Millar] out through the back door [of the police station]," Brailsford adds. "I put him in the car and drove to our hotel and checked him into a room. He was emotional and in tears. We sat on a balcony, opened a bottle of wine and I said, 'Right, you better tell me what the f*** is going on'. And that was it."

And there is the lie in all it's glory. Brailsford was also taken in and questioned by Police. Did he not get asked the same questions, or similar as Millar? Fran, David's sister, knew her bro was doping, so did Brailsford unless he was living under a rock till then.

Brailsford who has been involved in cycling for along time knew the score and yet people somehow choose to believe this guy who was head of Brit cycling was naive to doping. Oh dear..........

 

[sniper]

And there is the lie in all it's glory. Brailsford was also taken in and questioned by Police. Did he not get asked the same questions, or similar as Millar? Fran, David's sister, knew her bro was doping, so did Brailsford unless he was living under a rock till then.

touche

but stoppage time is still running. I see TheSpud bringing in a tall striker to try and force an equalizer.
Va banque.

 

[ebandit]

Which has of course nothing to do with the point I made that db is portrayed by his dog as anti dopers, but never actually seems to have a problem picking one.

team managers are expected to pick winners................i would not have

selected millar but he had served his time

Mark L

 

[Hawkwood]

And there is the lie in all it's glory. Brailsford was also taken in and questioned by Police. Did he not get asked the same questions, or similar as Millar? Fran, David's sister, knew her bro was doping, so did Brailsford unless he was living under a rock till then.

Brailsford who has been involved in cycling for along time knew the score and yet people somehow choose to believe this guy who was head of Brit cycling was naive to doping. Oh dear..........

Hang on your earlier point was that Brailsford legged it asap after Millar's arrest, now your point is based on him still being there 48 hours later!

 

[The Hitch]

team managers are expected to pick winners................i would not have

selected millar but he had served his time

Mark L

But DB is supposed to be so anti doping.

 

[Rob27172]

For the love of God, Rob27172, use some punctuation. "-' doesn't count.
Otherwise... carry on.....

I'm sorry Andy i will try to use some in the future although i cant promise as i type like i talk and when i get animated about something i type very quickly as i would speak very quickly and then the punctuation a bit like me stopping to take a breath doesn't work and so it becomes one long string of thoughts on a page which is really hard for anyone to read and even worse understand but I take your point and will endeavor to be more grammatically correct in future

P.S. Sorry again but couldn't resist, I'm off on holiday from tomorrow, so am feeling happy and in a mischievous mood.

 

[TheSpud]

And there is the lie in all it's glory. Brailsford was also taken in and questioned by Police. Did he not get asked the same questions, or similar as Millar? Fran, David's sister, knew her bro was doping, so did Brailsford unless he was living under a rock till then.

Brailsford who has been involved in cycling for along time knew the score and yet people somehow choose to believe this guy who was head of Brit cycling was naive to doping. Oh dear..........

Sorry but how does the paragraph I quoted support your earlier claim that Brailsford expresses to Kimmage regret for being untruthful, or that he did a runner from France?

 

[Benotti69]

Hang on Brailsford lied or didn't lie? Looks to me like he did in SpudVickers post.

When i get hold of the Kimmage article, i will post the Brailsfor' 'regret' for his part in the Biarittz ordeal.

But we digress. Brits dont dope? And Brailsford being this so called anti doping guru is another big fat lie. He was in Biarittz to talk to Millar about TeamGB for Olympics. He knew Millar was doping yet was going to pick him anyway.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Anyone who thinks that any olympic sport that is desperate for funding - and has to accept that the funding is linked to medal counts - and then has to accept that other nations have systematic doping going on (Russians, Germans, Australian Institute of sport, etc, etc) - then has to try to ensure that they are the best in the world to get the most funding they possibly can get - and THEN thinks that of course the best team in the world on the track wins because we all grow up in a country with no tracks to ride on and become natural superstar athletes - is in my opinion a rather naive fanboy at best and a complete idiot blinded by national pride at worst.
But that is what an opinion is, it is Personal and completely allowable.
And we don't even need to bring in the fact that the pure businessman that is DB was involved and brought in one of the most despised businessmen in the world in Rupert Murdoch alongside him.

DB and RM the two men who would do ANYTHING for world domination.

I would go on and on but you already have.

 

[TheSpud]

Hang on Brailsford lied or didn't lie? Looks to me like he did in SpudVickers post.

When i get hold of the Kimmage article, i will post the Brailsfor' 'regret' for his part in the Biarittz ordeal.

But we digress. Brits dont dope? And Brailsford being this so called anti doping guru is another big fat lie. He was in Biarittz to talk to Millar about TeamGB for Olympics. He knew Millar was doping yet was going to pick him anyway.

So where did he lie in the way you claimed (or express regret about being untruthful)? I have read the Kimmage article (Nov 09) and there is no such thing. Post the evidence or retract the accusation, and while you're at it you can retract the 'spudvickers' comment. I am not vickers - never have been, never will be. If you know him so well why not contact him and ask?

And your last comment - unproven. Yes he was in Biarritz but you cannot claim as a truth that he knew Millar was doping, you can suspect, but nothing more. If you have proof he knew , please post it. It seems you are staying he knew about doping because he was in the same town / city.

 

[Catwhoorg]

That quote if could be quite accurate even if he knew DM was doping.

More like:
What exactly did you do ? What did you confess to ? How much trouble would it be to to me to help you further ?

 

[TheSpud]

That quote if could be quite accurate even if he knew DM was doping.

More like:
What exactly did you do ? What did you confess to ? How much trouble would it be to to me to help you further ?

But that wasn't the quote so we cant speculate on anything about it. If you want to speculate then fine, maybe he sat him down and said 'how many Daleks did you see?'. We don't know because we weren't there, but to claim he is lying because you (sic) as a commentator don't like him / or think he should have known something is complete nonsense.

 

[ebandit]

moral

But DB is supposed to be so anti doping.

easy to take the moral high ground on a forum.............DB had no control

over millar's doping...............why not reserve your faux outrage for a proper

story........something along the lines of DB doped millar to olympic gold?

Mark L

 

[sniper]

That quote if could be quite accurate even if he knew DM was doping.

More like:
What exactly did you do ? What did you confess to ? How much trouble would it be to to me to help you further ?

, indeed.
like: why tha f didn't you hide that stuff where i told you to hide it.

my 10 cents: Brailsford goes there to supply Millar and talk about the olympics.
Both get taken into custody. Millar takes the blame and doesn't snitch on Brailsford.

 

[sniper]

Brailsford backs the idea of a consistent global anti-doping policy and he also wants lifetime bans for premeditated drug cheats. But, if Millar is available, then he would be in contention for selection.

"My job is to pick the fastest team, the best team that can win that race in London. It is not my job to decide if somebody is eligible or not," said Brailsford, who helped support Millar after he was banned for two years in 2004 for injecting EPO.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/apr/20/dave-brailsford-david-millar-olympic

 

[sniper]

brailsford's case goes to show, if you lie from an early age onwards, you get really good at it.
These are trained liars. I honestly think so.
Lance is the prime example of course (because proven), but the whole cycling community, people like brailsford, dopers like Riis, Contador, Wiggins, Froome, they're so used to lying with a mic under their noses. You notice how skilled some get. How cool they remain.
Brailsford. He's like a fish in the water when he's asked a difficult question about doping. Credit to him for how cool he remains (with the occasional exception, like when asked about Froome's VO2 max).

Brailsford, just look at the people he's hired and or supported, all people who were succesful straight throughout the EPO bloom period. Sciandri, Leinders, Yates, Julich, Knaven, Millar, the list is loooong. All key figures in the success of Team GB and Team Sky.

to assume he knew nothing about any of these people and doping, that defies logic. Admitted, it can't be excluded as a remote possibility. But to actively argue (without ay arguments other than "you can't prove it") against the view that he probably did know, on a forum...

 

[bobbins]

thanks bobbins. appreciate the insight. Few questions/comments:
'dodgy' as in probably gearing up on tramadol and cortisone with TUEs? or 'dodgy' as in probably taking genuinely illegal PEDs?

What era was your source covering when he said they're clean? Does it include the Hayles era, or starting after Hayles' retirement? We do agree that Hayles was manipulating his hematocrit in 2008, or do we?

The GB track team and their success runs straight through the dark era of road cycling. Was anybody in the dark era of road cycling worried about sponsorships or jobs? Perhaps they were, but did it keep them from doping? Not really. Why would track cycling be (or have been) any different?

either i don't really follow you, or, if i do, i think it's a flawed argument. Nadal also cherry picks his events.

Are you in the know about such practices? If you are, that's very interesting, though again it goes against the 100% clean claim...

brailsford's case goes to show, if you lie from an early age onwards, you get really good at it.
These are trained liars. I honestly think so.
Lance is the prime example of course (because proven), but the whole cycling community, people like brailsford, dopers like Riis, Contador, Wiggins, Froome, they're so used to lying with a mic under their noses. You notice how skilled some get. How cool they remain.
Brailsford. He's like a fish in the water when he's asked a difficult question about doping. Credit to him for how cool he remains (with the occasional exception, like when asked about Froome's VO2 max).

Brailsford, just look at the people he's hired and or supported, all people who were succesful straight throughout the EPO bloom period. Sciandri, Leinders, Yates, Julich, Knaven, Millar, the list is loooong. All key figures in the success of Team GB and Team Sky.

to assume he knew nothing about any of these people and doping, that defies logic. Admitted, it can't be excluded as a remote possibility. But to actively argue (without ay arguments other than "you can't prove it") against the view that he probably did know, on a forum...

He announced to a room full of people that Rogers was dirty when on a corporate jolly to the Etape.

He's a shape shifter, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could thrown him.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

my 10 cents: Brailsford goes there to supply Millar and talk about the olympics.

I'd have thought it more likely that Millar would use a local supplier, but this is just a guess.

And if Brailsford was visiting Millar to supply him, wouldn't the Gendarmes have found something? They're pretty ruthless, and can't be fobbed off with quoting the WADA rule book and stalling for time on procedural grounds. Once they got involved in 1998, they'd unearthed everything in no time at all.

If memory serves, the only incriminating material found Chez Millar was empty storage bottles/tubes. (I forget the correct term.)

 

[sniper]

I'd have thought it more likely that Millar would use a local supplier, but this is just a guess.

And if Brailsford was visiting Millar to supply him, wouldn't the Gendarmes have found something? They're pretty ruthless, and can't be fobbed off with quoting the WADA rule book and stalling for time on procedural grounds. Once they got involved in 1998, they'd unearthed everything in no time at all.

Millar seems to have claimed he got his stuff in Spain (see below).
As for the gendarmes, I think lot's of illegal stuff gets past the gendarmes on a daily basis.

If memory serves, the only incriminating material found Chez Millar was empty storage bottles/tubes. (I forget the correct term.)

wikipedia:

After two and a half hours they found empty phials of Eprex, a brand of the blood-boosting drug EPO, and two used syringes.[16][n 3] Millar said he had been given them as a gift at the Tour of Spain, that he had taken them to Manchester and used them. After that he had kept them as a souvenir

by the way, as benotti suggested, I can't find any sources from 2004 mentioning that Brailsford too was taken into custody. Seems it was hushed up initially. Anybody know how that fact eventually came out into the public domain?

 

[skippythepinhead]

If memory serves, the only incriminating material found Chez Millar was empty storage bottles/tubes. (I forget the correct term.)

I believe most junkies call it the "works."

 

[sniper]

He announced to a room full of people that Rogers was dirty when on a corporate jolly to the Etape.

In what year did that happen?