Brits don't dope?

[The Hitch]

did you consider just how few british riders were riding each event in the stated period?

track cycling saw british success due to lottery funding aiming to net olympic
golds..........there was no such investment in road racing

Mark L

I'd like to know how lottery funding made Chris Froome go in 18 months from nobody to one of the fastest climbers of all time.

 

[ebandit]

?

I'd like to know how lottery funding made Chris Froome go in 18 months from nobody to one of the fastest climbers of all time.

did you read my post?

Mark L

 

[sniper]

did you consider just how few british riders were riding each event in the stated period?

track cycling saw british success due to lottery funding aiming to net olympic
golds..........there was no such investment in road racing

Mark L

if you would have to choose, what in your opinion has been a more decisive factor in Sky's TdF success:
- more money (> enhanced technology/nutrion/training methods)
- cycling getting cleaner

 

[ebandit]

read

if you would have to choose, what in your opinion has been a more decisive factor in Sky's TdF success:
- more money (> enhanced technology/nutrion/training methods)
- cycling getting cleaner

me thinks that you did not read my post either

Mark L

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

I'd like to know how lottery funding made Chris Froome go in 18 months from nobody to one of the fastest climbers of all time.

You know perfectly well that Froome didn't come through the British track system and that his Britishness is a flag of convenience. The likes of Stannard, Wiggins, Thomas, Cavendish, Cummings, Swift and Kennaugh all did though. Maybe concentrate on the facts rather than coming up with some stupid argument purely to suit your own agenda.

 

[ralphbert]

- cycling getting cleaner

Cycling getting cleanEr doesn't explain how Fromedog climbs faster than Lance

 

[sniper]

Cycling getting cleanEr doesn't explain how Fromedog climbs faster than Lance

agreed.
but i was trying to make a more general point that IF it were down to cycling getting cleaner (as many including the protagonists themselves have claimed), wouldn't we expect to see British road cycling talent emerge first in the smaller (one day) races (which is where clean riders are said to have better chances), and only later in the GTs (where doping logically has a larger impact)...

Sky/GB's road cycling development has been completely illogical from a cycling-is-cleaning-up perspective.
From zero to bang...two TdFs.

 

[Digger]

Cycling isn't cleaner. The fans are getting more stupid and gullible though...sky fans are unreal. I don't remember usp fans being quite as bad...

 

[blackcat]

Cycling isn't cleaner. The fans are getting more stupid and gullible though...sky fans are unreal. I don't remember usp fans being quite as bad...

disagree.

teams are more upfront with their propaganda and clean status.

people are willing to believe in their heroes and their tribal association(s).

to disbelieve, is to deny your own pscyhe and understanding of life

 

[blackcat]

Sky/GB's road cycling development has been completely illogical from a cycling-is-cleaning-up perspective.
From zero to bang...two TdFs.

meta level, its completely logical.

cycling gets cleaner every year. so it is logical cycling got cleaner last year.

it got cleaner than last year this year.

i think it will be even cleaner and get cleaner next year.

cycling is always getting cleaner.

sniper, can you understand now. it makes perfect sense. the 2006 memo. 1998 Festina. WADA 1999. 'crit health limit in 1996. Wiggins proof in 2012. Evans proof in 2013.

cycling is getting cleaner.

not sarcastic at all. Did anyone know the Wildean quote that is never correctly invoked on sarcasm?

 

[blackcat]

How dare you lot deign question the moral fortitude of us proud brits. This outrage will not stand. Now, pucker up and show some contrition to my bust of dame Judi Dench.

Ps. roger Hammond must've won something at some point. And with the aid of nothing more than lean pork chops, to be sure.

dario cioni agrees.

and lets add some Chariots of Fire, Gordonstoun, muscular christianity, Oxbridge, boat race, rowing, redgrave, sir redgrave, public schools, and public schools dorm boarding rooms that we cannot talk about what goes on in them. /grammar.

this is a manifestly racist post on those god fearing folk of the british isles.

or, lets not forget Prince Andrew and his 17yo paramours.

 

[simo1733]

Does having a Properly funded Pro team for the first time ever have anything to do with the current success ?

 

[blackcat]

Does having a Properly funded Pro team for the first time ever have anything to do with the current success ?

no, all those riders were on adequately funded teams and frankly, they sucked @rse

 

[bobbins]

dario cioni agrees.

and lets add some Chariots of Fire, Gordonstoun, muscular christianity, Oxbridge, boat race, rowing, redgrave, sir redgrave, public schools, and public schools dorm boarding rooms that we cannot talk about what goes on in them. /grammar.

this is a manifestly racist post on those god fearing folk of the british isles.

or, lets not forget Prince Andrew and his 17yo paramours.

Are you mentally ill??

 

[blackcat]

Are you mentally ill??

so you have a sense of humour?

 

[bobbins]

so you have a sense of humour?

I do yes but what you are writing wasn't funny the first time and the level of amusement has decreased significantly over time. You barely get pity each time you post the same old thing.

Maybe try to keep the discussion on topic? if you don't have anything relevant to add maybe don't add anything?

 

[sniper]

Does having a Properly funded Pro team for the first time ever have anything to do with the current success ?

sure that helps. But didn't the french have properly funded pro teams over the past two decades or so?

and even with proper funding, how do you close the gap between being a nobody in a sport, and dominating that sport.
imagine the Netherlands suddenly receiving huge funding for ice hockey. How long would it take for the m to close the gap to the top? Me thinks much more than a decade.

 

[bobbins]

There's always been doping in sport in the UK, cycling is no exception.

Riders have always returned from trips to Belgium with pills and phials of either vitamins or other stuff that the Belgians use so it must be good.

From experience, in the 90s there was plenty going on with cortisone, synacthen and amphets with some suggested EPO use coming in around 94/95.

Some riders were constantly at it but they weren't always winners. Mind you, those drugs didn't give such an advantage as EPO and other stuff does these days. There would never have been a Froome like transformation back in those days.

As for the Track program. I've heard rumours of sprinters taking stuff but have heard from a very good source that the track team are 100% clean.

I think that these days, the abuse in the domestic ranks is worse than it ever was. Better stuff is easier to get hold of and it seems to be more socially acceptable to take stuff to fix problems (like being slow / fat).

Testing is sparse and targeted to minimise positive tests with the odd sacrificial lamb thrown to the wolves every now and again just to show that UKADA are doing their job.

 

[alspacka]

dario cioni agrees.

and lets add some Chariots of Fire, Gordonstoun, muscular christianity, Oxbridge, boat race, rowing, redgrave, sir redgrave, public schools, and public schools dorm boarding rooms that we cannot talk about what goes on in them. /grammar.

this is a manifestly racist post on those god fearing folk of the british isles.

or, lets not forget Prince Andrew and his 17yo paramours.

? and the highest form of intelligence my dear boy.

If anyone fancies a ruckus on this matter they can take it up with Baron Coe and the spirit of Churchill.

 

[sniper]

There's always been doping in sport in the UK, cycling is no exception.

Riders have always returned from trips to Belgium with pills and phials of either vitamins or other stuff that the Belgians use so it must be good.

From experience, in the 90s there was plenty going on with cortisone, synacthen and amphets with some suggested EPO use coming in around 94/95.

Some riders were constantly at it but they weren't always winners. Mind you, those drugs didn't give such an advantage as EPO and other stuff does these days. There would never have been a Froome like transformation back in those days.

As for the Track program. I've heard rumours of sprinters taking stuff but have heard from a very good source that the track team are 100% clean.

I think that these days, the abuse in the domestic ranks is worse than it ever was. Better stuff is easier to get hold of and it seems to be more socially acceptable to take stuff to fix problems (like being slow / fat).

Testing is sparse and targeted to minimise positive tests with the odd sacrificial lamb thrown to the wolves every now and again just to show that UKADA are doing their job.

Thanks, interesting.
but 100 clean? Certainly not in the recent past. Hayles was manipulating his hematocrit, only logical to assume others were as well. Brailsford was around and we know for a near-fact he encourages doping among his road riders. Why wouldn't he have encouraged doping among his track riders? The testing is negligible, the sportive benefits huge, the financial gains impressive, and the antidoping officers corruptable. Britain has been completely dominant, men and women.
100 clean...? I don't trust your source.

 

[bobbins]

There is the chance that individuals do their own thing but as far as they were concerned, the big names on the track squad are clean. the same source that knows all about team sky so I trust it totally.

 

[sniper]

There is the chance that individuals do their own thing but as far as they were concerned, the big names on the track squad are clean. the same source that knows all about team sky so I trust it totally.

Hayles sure did his own thing.
wonder what his clean colleagues think of that.
They must despise him

 

[wrinklyvet]

Brailsford was around and we know for a near-fact he encourages doping among his road riders.

One man's near-fact is another's non-fact, or unsupported allegation. What is your source? Or is it a deduction based on non-facts?

It s OK to speculate, I am sure, but to dignify speculation to this extent is a shaky foundation for your edifice of cards.

 

[gillan1969]

One man's near-fact is another's non-fact, or unsupported allegation. What is your source? Or is it a deduction based on non-facts?

It s OK to speculate, I am sure, but to dignify speculation to this extent is a shaky foundation for your edifice of cards.

Fact he was the GB 'performance director' 'directing' JTL's 'performance' at the 2012 worlds......and we know how that ended

or did you think that JTL has suddenly emerged as a huge natural talent as well???

 

[wrinklyvet]

Fact he was the GB 'performance director' 'directing' JTL's 'performance' at the 2012 worlds......and we know how that ended

or did you think that JTL has suddenly emerged as a huge natural talent as well???

That's a clever use of mirrors and smoke. So you manage to deduce from JTL's doping that Brailsford put him up to it? There are one or two facts missing so it's another of those "near-facts" in my opinion.