Brits don't dope?

[doolols]

Re: Re:

Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic.

No need to visit the clinic if you just come to scoff at those who post here.

I've been away, and just seen this.

I wasn't "scoffing". The clinic is indeed a rarified atmosphere. Regulars here represent but a tiny cross section of society who have more than a passing interest in sport. So an exceptional performance is slapped down as "ridiculous" and "ludicrous" and "not normal" and "evidence of doping" in here, but is cheered to the rafters by those outside here.

I meant no disrespect to anyone here.

 

[doolols]

Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

Really? What *is* happening in the UK? I don't know. Do you?

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/17/olympics-hysteria-britain-turned-soviet-team-gb

Interesting article from Simon Jenkins of the Guardian - stops short of accusing Britain of widespread doping but at least it's a sceptical article for once

He his right about the BBC, it is really over the top, it's sickening tbh.

It's unwatchable. Thankfully all their streams on the iplayer appear to use international feeds. I've watched loads of the Olympics but haven't watched any of it live on the BBC as I increasingly consider our state broadcaster to be a propaganda tool. I think they've basically been warned by the Tories that if they don't adopt jingoism and softer coverage of the government then they'll be castrated.

Despite all that I share the Guardian opinion above that the success is likely the result of throwing absurd quantities of money at what are essentially niche sports where there isn't a massive strength in depth in competition. It's notable the the UK hasn't done particularly great at swimming, one of the sports with real international strength in depth. This is despite swimming being a discipline consistently ripe with state sponsored doping controversies (including China and Russia this year).

Completely agree. The BBC has jumped the shark in it's ludicrous cheerleading. I too agree with Simon Jenkins. Britain's dope is money. At the same time as it buys medals at £5m a throw, our Government cavalry charges the race to the bottom in nearly every other walk of life.

Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of Jason, Laura and the rest. But their success conceals a price that much of the country wilfully fails to see.

Yes, and the British federations (cycling, athletics, rowing, etc) are very good at spending in on things they need: very good (but dodgy as heck) doctors and coaches, hi-tech equipment (includes clothing as well, apparently) and top end doping. Of course, none of us here have undeniable, 100% proof, but all things point that way. The evidence is slowly but surely building to widespread doping. Not saying that's it's government or MI6 involvement per say, but the Brits have learned to play the game very well indeed. Of that there is no doubt. It has nothing to do with nationalism or being jealous or former colonies like Australia being 'jelly' of Britain's success in sports where they haven't been in years past, or sports where the Australians were better at some point or at least very comparable to Brits.

Another thing is population. I usually agree with Benotti in regards to many doping topics here in the Clinic, but population comparisons with East Germany isn't the best marker, and I think it's somewhat moot. Yes, Britain obviously doesn't have the population that the US or China do, and it's what, 1/3 the size (population wise) of Russa? It his however more than three times bigger right now than East Germany ever was. Another thing is, East Germany never really grew much in population because of its 'closed' borders and strict rules which forbade a lot of going in and out. Whereas Britain is one of the most open federations in the world. Look at London. One of the most diverse cities on the planet. My point is, we can certainly point to Britain really getting in on the act in the past couple decades and making a concerted effort in being a powerhouse at the summer Olympics, but not through population.

East Germany was not only good because of doping, but because they too, were organized, they spent a lot of money, and they did a good job of recruiting top talents from various parts of the country. You can dope your talented athletes all you want, but you still need the right training, the right coaches (or at least enough of them), hard work and top athletes pushing each other on a daily or weekly basis. As I said in earlier quotes on this topic, their gymnasium structure/sport schools (hochshule) are still being used in quite a few places in Europe. Of course, those 'places' in all likelihood don't give dish out anabolic steroids to 13-18 year old kids, but there are similarities to structure and planning and how things are run, in general.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

but the Brits have learned to play the game very well indeed.

and that is all they have done... learnt to play the game. Same way the Sinos and Russos and Australians do.

and if anyone had read my posting oeuvre on The Clinic, that I only aspire to be the court harlequin, nothing more, nothing less, and add the Wildean drollery. or, as the delgados would put it, the Wilderean drollery, and I actually prefer that malaprop

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

... Gordonstoun (at least spell it correctly)?

I assume it was because 28% of the GB team attended Private schools.

Living in Manchester i do know Private schools have great facilities for sport where as state schools were all forced to flog off their playing fields.

Perhaps

There is a big difference between mainstream independent schools (which I admit a lot of the GB team attended) and expensive public schools like Gordonstoun. However, there is another poster here who uses Gordonstoun as a xenophobic angle (in my opinion, as well as others) - it wouldn't be great to have another one.

well, if you have followed my post history thru numerous cycling fora, ask race radio, he knew me on the multiple fora and different handles, and others here who have also posted across half-a-dozen different fora...

I am an equal opportunity bigot, i pot everyone, specifically the sport. potting usually has a correlation with domination and the truthiness of the fanbois. In this case hog's Empire Crew. which aint an oxbridge boat race but chamois sniffers that switched allegiance cross the atlantic. I once potted the Postal fanbois, as Glenn will no doubt attest. And there has always been an above-the-line motif on the humour and satire first and foremost.

i mean, ricky riccio is my favourite rider fur chrissakes

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

So would me saying that Italian bikes only have reverse gears be humour?

cos ur not very funny Spud

and Jamie Burrow was the best climber the brits never had. He still has the record for Plateau de Beille, but u know that ofcourse.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I too agree with Simon Jenkins. Britain's dope is money.

Sally Jenkins husband/ Its not about the Bike Stupid Its the Economy David Frum and George Stephanopoulos

#torturingmetaphorslikeAbuGhraib

 

[Hugh Januss]

Oh please. If it looks to good too be true then it most likely is too good to be true. In cycling if it looks too good to be true then someone has nested away a tidy profit. British UCI..........British Champions.
Of course it really could be coincidence. :lol:

 

[domination]

Cyclist Anna Meares has joined a growing number of Olympic athletes and coaches demanding to know how Team Great Britain got so good.

After a disappointing 10th place result in the individual track sprint in Rio on Monday, Meares, who is Australia's Olympic captain, turned her attention to the over-performing British cyclists.

They've done exceedingly well in Brazil, and Meares said it wasn't just the Australian team who had questions about the British

'The British are just phenomenal when it comes to the Olympic Games, and we're all just scratching our heads going 'how do they lift so much when in so many events they have not even been in contention in the world championships?,' she was quoted as saying.

'They've got it together, and to be honest I'm not exactly sure what they've got together.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3742770/Australian-cyclist-Anna-Meares-questions-British-team-Rio-got-good.html#ixzz4HVSByKYe

Some of the best track cyclists in the World are starting to cal it like they see it. People like Anna Meares and Vogels know their Track onions. That's all they do, that's all they've ever done and they know what's what. They've forgotten more about Track cycling than the peeps who accuse them of having sour grapes. When people of that kind of experience speak, we should listen.

They may know their onions, but the one thing they really know is their grapes - the sour ones. They've been beaten fair and square - again.

How can you know that? Fair and square! How?

Iain Dyer caught lying about teams not having same form as World championships when most performed better!

Take off the national health specs for a moment!

The British team hold back on all technology until the Olympics. It's such a straightforward explanation for the peaking but inconvenient for the preferred narrative on here, so the scoffing that certainly does go on is at such reasonable claims as marginal gains etc.

If you want to call if financial doping then fair enough. But that is the only form of doping going on.

 

[blackcat]

The British team hold back on all technology until the Olympics. It's such a straightforward explanation for the peaking but inconvenient for the preferred narrative on here, so the scoffing that certainly does go on is at such reasonable claims as marginal gains etc.

If you want to call if financial doping then fair enough. But that is the only form of doping going on.

false dichotomy.

<edited by mods>

I would say the Brits do have the class on the track, and would clean sweep if everyone was on panem et aqua.

but, they wont be able to sweep the track when everyone else is improving their gross power by 20%. those brits will need to fight fire with fire.

you know the aphorism about not bringing a gun to a knifefight?

well, Brailsford et al, Sutton the misogynist hes australian what else would he be... the british cycling team only brought their knives to the knifefight, they did not break any rulz innit.

they may have brought the best knives from hestons kitchen, but they only brought their knives.

one thing the brits and the yanks are not, they are not stupid.

if they did not go armed to the knifefight where they did not make the rulz, then they would be stupid innit. Armstrong would be stupid. he wasnt. he may not have a GED, and be pretty ignorant, but he aint stupid or gullible or ignorantOnMattersCycling.

cycling, u gotta bring ur knife to the knifefight.

analogy holds for olympics

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic.

No need to visit the clinic if you just come to scoff at those who post here.

I've been away, and just seen this.

I wasn't "scoffing". The clinic is indeed a rarified atmosphere. Regulars here represent but a tiny cross section of society who have more than a passing interest in sport. So an exceptional performance is slapped down as "ridiculous" and "ludicrous" and "not normal" and "evidence of doping" in here, but is cheered to the rafters by those outside here.

I meant no disrespect to anyone here.

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

 

[The Hitch]

Cyclist Anna Meares has joined a growing number of Olympic athletes and coaches demanding to know how Team Great Britain got so good.

After a disappointing 10th place result in the individual track sprint in Rio on Monday, Meares, who is Australia's Olympic captain, turned her attention to the over-performing British cyclists.

They've done exceedingly well in Brazil, and Meares said it wasn't just the Australian team who had questions about the British

'The British are just phenomenal when it comes to the Olympic Games, and we're all just scratching our heads going 'how do they lift so much when in so many events they have not even been in contention in the world championships?,' she was quoted as saying.

'They've got it together, and to be honest I'm not exactly sure what they've got together.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3742770/Australian-cyclist-Anna-Meares-questions-British-team-Rio-got-good.html#ixzz4HVSByKYe

Some of the best track cyclists in the World are starting to cal it like they see it. People like Anna Meares and Vogels know their Track onions. That's all they do, that's all they've ever done and they know what's what. They've forgotten more about Track cycling than the peeps who accuse them of having sour grapes. When people of that kind of experience speak, we should listen.

They may know their onions, but the one thing they really know is their grapes - the sour ones. They've been beaten fair and square - again.

How can you know that? Fair and square! How?

Iain Dyer caught lying about teams not having same form as World championships when most performed better!

Take off the national health specs for a moment![/quote]

The British team hold back on all technology until the Olympics. It's such a straightforward explanation for the peaking but inconvenient for the preferred narrative on here, so the scoffing that certainly does go on is at such reasonable claims as marginal gains etc.

If you want to call if financial doping then fair enough. But that is the only form of doping going on.[/quote]

Which technology exactly where mo farah, Adam peaty and the brownlee brothers holding onto?

 

[elduggo]

The British team hold back on all technology until the Olympics. It's such a straightforward explanation for the peaking but inconvenient for the preferred narrative on here, so the scoffing that certainly does go on is at such reasonable claims as marginal gains etc.

If you want to call if financial doping then fair enough. But that is the only form of doping going on.

future lottery funding for sports is all dependent on Olympic performance.

Just digest that for a second.

Imagine the pressure that must put people under.

You'd want to win, at ALL costs.

So I doubt technology is all they hold back on.

 

[doolols]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

With your permission may the Clinic cite Vogel and Mears as marginal gains for those who are not admiring this spectacle?

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

I've been watching the Olympics on canal + and the French aren't cheering the brit medals anymore than any other medal. I've also been watching polish and Spanish news, and, surprise surprise, neither country mentions the brit medals. They just mention their own medals.

Looks like the brit fans are entering the same self obsessed nationalism the Americans have always been mocked for. Not just content with supporting their own athletes but creating the illusion that everyone else must also support their athletes because Britain is the greatest nation on earth bla bla bla.

Ps. Do you believe Paula doped?

 

[Winnats]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

With your permission may the Clinic cite Vogel and Mears as marginal gains for those who are not admiring this spectacle?

Vogel won and Mears is clearly at an Olympics too far

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

With your permission may the Clinic cite Vogel and Mears as marginal gains for those who are not admiring this spectacle?

Vogel won and Mears is clearly at an Olympics too far

It's clearly been an Olympics too far for a lot of Team GB's competitors - that's what is being questioned.

 

[doolols]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

With your permission may the Clinic cite Vogel and Mears as marginal gains for those who are not admiring this spectacle?

Fairly obviously, they fall into the "sour grapes" category. Strange how, when the Brits get beaten, they don't immediately respond by hurling accusations about. It seems to be a common narrative at these Olympics - if the Brits win (at anything), they simply must be doping.

 

[doolols]

Any while we're at it, Michaël D’Almeida's comment is just stupid.

“We are human beings like them, we are made of the same stuff, we have a bike like they do, so why are they better?"

If he really doesn't understand the concept of competition, he really doesn't belong in one.

 

[doolols]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

With your permission may the Clinic cite Vogel and Mears as marginal gains for those who are not admiring this spectacle?

Vogel won and Mears is clearly at an Olympics too far

It's clearly been an Olympics too far for a lot of Team GB's competitors - that's what is being questioned.

Please explain why it's "clearly an Olympics too far for a lot of Team GB's competitors".

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

With your permission may the Clinic cite Vogel and Mears as marginal gains for those who are not admiring this spectacle?

Fairly obviously, they fall into the "sour grapes" category. Strange how, when the Brits get beaten, they don't immediately respond by hurling accusations about. It seems to be a common narrative at these Olympics - if the Brits win (at anything), they simply must be doping.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...ts-Great-Britain-head-coach-Bill-Furniss.html

 

[doolols]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

With your permission may the Clinic cite Vogel and Mears as marginal gains for those who are not admiring this spectacle?

Fairly obviously, they fall into the "sour grapes" category. Strange how, when the Brits get beaten, they don't immediately respond by hurling accusations about. It seems to be a common narrative at these Olympics - if the Brits win (at anything), they simply must be doping.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...ts-Great-Britain-head-coach-Bill-Furniss.html

:lol: :lol: Good one!

Although, it was more a case of criticising over the inability of the IOC to ban the whole team, as they perhaps should have done.

 

[Winnats]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

With your permission may the Clinic cite Vogel and Mears as marginal gains for those who are not admiring this spectacle?

Vogel won and Mears is clearly at an Olympics too far

It's clearly been an Olympics too far for a lot of Team GB's competitors - that's what is being questioned.

Specific to Track cycling and Track Cycling only - which of the GB team do you feel are 'past it' and whose perfomances you feel have or should have fallen off due to advancing years?

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Lol. The entire world is cheering and celebrating the british performances?

Apart from one or two pockets full of sour grapes, and the usual suspects on here, yes.

If you see the interviews after the races (not just in cycling), there is a lot of love for Britain, and admiration from the other competitors.

With your permission may the Clinic cite Vogel and Mears as marginal gains for those who are not admiring this spectacle?

Fairly obviously, they fall into the "sour grapes" category. Strange how, when the Brits get beaten, they don't immediately respond by hurling accusations about. It seems to be a common narrative at these Olympics - if the Brits win (at anything), they simply must be doping.

That's not entirely true. There's a lot of hate for cobo amongst british cycling fans because they just know he must have doped to beat clean Froome. People like Walsh attack Astana. The BBC have accused plenty of nonbrits over the years.