Teams & Riders Brothers in (crank) arms - Yates Discussion Thread

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Apr 17, 2014
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SlickMongoose said:
Absolutely.

Compare them to last year - Simon got into one break, and had to withdraw. Adam finished the Vuelta but I can't remember actually seeing him.

This year, it looks like they're both going to finish the tour, they've both been in breaks regularly, they both have top 10 finishes on really tough stages. It's a shame neither of them could win a stage but if they keep improving they could be very strong next year.
Next year I think they will go for top 10 on GC. Maybe wishful thinking but would love to see them go to the giro.
 
Re: Re:

fungusbear said:
SlickMongoose said:
Absolutely.

Compare them to last year - Simon got into one break, and had to withdraw. Adam finished the Vuelta but I can't remember actually seeing him.

This year, it looks like they're both going to finish the tour, they've both been in breaks regularly, they both have top 10 finishes on really tough stages. It's a shame neither of them could win a stage but if they keep improving they could be very strong next year.
Next year I think they will go for top 10 on GC. Maybe wishful thinking but would love to see them go to the giro.
Next year they will still only be 23. Hopefully the first thing they do is convert top 10 in a stage to GT stage wins and then maybe they can go for gc in 2 years time. Regardless of what they do, I hope they don't leave Orica. They will never get chances like this in another team imo.
 
Re: Re:

Jspear said:
fungusbear said:
SlickMongoose said:
Absolutely.

Compare them to last year - Simon got into one break, and had to withdraw. Adam finished the Vuelta but I can't remember actually seeing him.

This year, it looks like they're both going to finish the tour, they've both been in breaks regularly, they both have top 10 finishes on really tough stages. It's a shame neither of them could win a stage but if they keep improving they could be very strong next year.
Next year I think they will go for top 10 on GC. Maybe wishful thinking but would love to see them go to the giro.
Next year they will still only be 23. Hopefully the first thing they do is convert top 10 in a stage to GT stage wins and then maybe they can go for gc in 2 years time. Regardless of what they do, I hope they don't leave Orica. They will never get chances like this in another team imo.
 
Re: Re:

Jspear said:
fungusbear said:
SlickMongoose said:
Absolutely.

Compare them to last year - Simon got into one break, and had to withdraw. Adam finished the Vuelta but I can't remember actually seeing him.

This year, it looks like they're both going to finish the tour, they've both been in breaks regularly, they both have top 10 finishes on really tough stages. It's a shame neither of them could win a stage but if they keep improving they could be very strong next year.
Next year I think they will go for top 10 on GC. Maybe wishful thinking but would love to see them go to the giro.
Next year they will still only be 23. Hopefully the first thing they do is convert top 10 in a stage to GT stage wins and then maybe they can go for gc in 2 years time. Regardless of what they do, I hope they don't leave Orica. They will never get chances like this in another team imo.
Now THIS is far more reality-based than them looking at Top10 GC next year. At this point, neither can compete with the real contenders on a day to day basis NOR can they stick with the pivotal move when the break splinters. With some added strength, the latter may be somewhat better addressed next year but as yet (and not even mentioning TTing where neither are stellar), they're still some way off.

Do agree that if they were to transfer to UK Postal, they'd just be hammered into the ground doing grunt work on a day to day basis.
 
Apr 17, 2014
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dirkprovin said:
Jspear said:
fungusbear said:
SlickMongoose said:
Absolutely.

Compare them to last year - Simon got into one break, and had to withdraw. Adam finished the Vuelta but I can't remember actually seeing him.

This year, it looks like they're both going to finish the tour, they've both been in breaks regularly, they both have top 10 finishes on really tough stages. It's a shame neither of them could win a stage but if they keep improving they could be very strong next year.
Next year I think they will go for top 10 on GC. Maybe wishful thinking but would love to see them go to the giro.
Next year they will still only be 23. Hopefully the first thing they do is convert top 10 in a stage to GT stage wins and then maybe they can go for gc in 2 years time. Regardless of what they do, I hope they don't leave Orica. They will never get chances like this in another team imo.
Now THIS is far more reality-based than them looking at Top10 GC next year. At this point, neither can compete with the real contenders on a day to day basis NOR can they stick with the pivotal move when the break splinters. With some added strength, the latter may be somewhat better addressed next year but as yet (and not even mentioning TTing where neither are stellar), they're still some way off.

Do agree that if they were to transfer to UK Postal, they'd just be hammered into the ground doing grunt work on a day to day basis.
It is not impossible for them to get top 10 GC at 23. Anyway, they made the right decision to go to Orica over SKY. I think in three years they will be leading a team or at least free to go for GC. At SKY, G is nearly 30 and still not had a chance to lead at a GT, and Porte only got his first opportunity this year.
 
Re: Re:

fungusbear said:
dirkprovin said:
Jspear said:
fungusbear said:
SlickMongoose said:
Absolutely.

Compare them to last year - Simon got into one break, and had to withdraw. Adam finished the Vuelta but I can't remember actually seeing him.

This year, it looks like they're both going to finish the tour, they've both been in breaks regularly, they both have top 10 finishes on really tough stages. It's a shame neither of them could win a stage but if they keep improving they could be very strong next year.
Next year I think they will go for top 10 on GC. Maybe wishful thinking but would love to see them go to the giro.
Next year they will still only be 23. Hopefully the first thing they do is convert top 10 in a stage to GT stage wins and then maybe they can go for gc in 2 years time. Regardless of what they do, I hope they don't leave Orica. They will never get chances like this in another team imo.
Now THIS is far more reality-based than them looking at Top10 GC next year. At this point, neither can compete with the real contenders on a day to day basis NOR can they stick with the pivotal move when the break splinters. With some added strength, the latter may be somewhat better addressed next year but as yet (and not even mentioning TTing where neither are stellar), they're still some way off.

Do agree that if they were to transfer to UK Postal, they'd just be hammered into the ground doing grunt work on a day to day basis.
It is not impossible for them to get top 10 GC at 23. Anyway, they made the right decision to go to Orica over SKY. I think in three years they will be leading a team or at least free to go for GC. At SKY, G is nearly 30 and still not had a chance to lead at a GT, and Porte only got his first opportunity this year.
NOT impossible; there are riders only a couple of years older than them riding high in the GC but it call comes down to the individual characteristics of the rider and relative state of development.

At this point, NEITHER Yates has shown a capacity to stick with the contenders in the mountains on a day to day basis which is a pre-requisite for a high GC finish nor the capacity to "finish off" a break. NEITHER are high level TTers at this point; another near pre-requisite for high GC.

What their overall capabilities may be has yet to be established and all we can go on is what they've produced to date. They've shown the capacity to ride high GC at one week tours but even there, when up against the big gun GT men, they've yet to show they can go with the big moves.

Next season they may be further along but from what we've seen at this year's Tour; top 10 is one quantum leap rather than a next step.
 
Apr 17, 2014
489
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Re: Re:

Compare them to last year - Simon got into one break, and had to withdraw. Adam finished the Vuelta but I can't remember actually seeing him.

This year, it looks like they're both going to finish the tour, they've both been in breaks regularly, they both have top 10 finishes on really tough stages. It's a shame neither of them could win a stage but if they keep improving they could be very strong next year.[/quote]

Next year I think they will go for top 10 on GC. Maybe wishful thinking but would love to see them go to the giro.[/quote]

Next year they will still only be 23. Hopefully the first thing they do is convert top 10 in a stage to GT stage wins and then maybe they can go for gc in 2 years time. Regardless of what they do, I hope they don't leave Orica. They will never get chances like this in another team imo.[/quote]

Now THIS is far more reality-based than them looking at Top10 GC next year. At this point, neither can compete with the real contenders on a day to day basis NOR can they stick with the pivotal move when the break splinters. With some added strength, the latter may be somewhat better addressed next year but as yet (and not even mentioning TTing where neither are stellar), they're still some way off.

Do agree that if they were to transfer to UK Postal, they'd just be hammered into the ground doing grunt work on a day to day basis.[/quote]

It is not impossible for them to get top 10 GC at 23. Anyway, they made the right decision to go to Orica over SKY. I think in three years they will be leading a team or at least free to go for GC. At SKY, G is nearly 30 and still not had a chance to lead at a GT, and Porte only got his first opportunity this year.[/quote]

NOT impossible; there are riders only a couple of years older than them riding high in the GC but it call comes down to the individual characteristics of the rider and relative state of development.

At this point, NEITHER Yates has shown a capacity to stick with the contenders in the mountains on a day to day basis which is a pre-requisite for a high GC finish nor the capacity to "finish off" a break. NEITHER are high level TTers at this point; another near pre-requisite for high GC.

What their overall capabilities may be has yet to be established and all we can go on is what they've produced to date. They've shown the capacity to ride high GC at one week tours but even there, when up against the big gun GT men, they've yet to show they can go with the big moves.

Next season they may be further along but from what we've seen at this year's Tour; top 10 is one quantum leap rather than a next step.[/quote]
From what I saw in the Dauphine, Simon lived with the big boys pretty well. While top ten is probably out of reach next year, I don't think it is as far away as you think.
 
Apr 17, 2014
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Pricey_sky said:
Simon Yates 11th up the Alpe. Nice effort.
Yeah great effort, and Adam 22nd just behind the Contador group. (Suprised it is not the other way round as Adam was with the Froome group for a decent way up ADH).
 
Re:

Pricey_sky said:
Simon Yates 11th up the Alpe. Nice effort.
And Adam 22nd. Excellent rides by both. Certainly indicates that on any given day, they are capable of riding with the top drawer for a good distance on the really tough climbs.

However, the operative words are "on any given day" as against doing so on the consistent "day after day" basis required to ride high GC in Grand Tours. These rides were after "grupetto" the day before.

Maybe next year they can "go the distance" in breakaways and/or look to look to ride "at the business end" of the field on a more regular basis. High GC ...... still some years away. Will be very curious to see how they look at things come contract time next year. UK Postal $$$$ will be tempting but not sure they'll be over keen to be subjected to the relentless grind of Froome servitude until they (and others) have a truer handle on whether they ARE likely to be GC material or not
 
Apr 17, 2014
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dirkprovin said:
Pricey_sky said:
Simon Yates 11th up the Alpe. Nice effort.
And Adam 22nd. Excellent rides by both. Certainly indicates that on any given day, they are capable of riding with the top drawer for a good distance on the really tough climbs.

However, the operative words are "on any given day" as against doing so on the consistent "day after day" basis required to ride high GC in Grand Tours. These rides were after "grupetto" the day before.

Maybe next year they can "go the distance" in breakaways and/or look to look to ride "at the business end" of the field on a more regular basis. High GC ...... still some years away. Will be very curious to see how they look at things come contract time next year. UK Postal $$$$ will be tempting but not sure they'll be over keen to be subjected to the relentless grind of Froome servitude until they (and others) have a truer handle on whether they ARE likely to be GC material or not
I really hope they don't go to a team that makes them be domestiques in every race. My favourite thing about this tour is that they were not struggling to hang on till Paris like many riders- they rode very well on the final very difficult (racing) stage. They were in the gruppeto yesterday but that was by choice as they wanted to give everything they had today (or according to an article on cyclingquotes anyway).
 
The boys are progressing well. Finishing 2 or 3 minutes and top 10 behind the top guys in mountain stages means that with natural improvement and strength, they could challenge for a GT stage victory in the next two years. GC is another issue.
 
Okay, I need to get this sorted out sooner rather than later:

Are they, in fact, exactly the same kind of rider?

Like, I used to think that maybe Simon is a better puncheur and Adam a better climber or whatever but I don't know anymore.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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hrotha said:
Okay, I need to get this sorted out sooner rather than later:

Are they, in fact, exactly the same kind of rider?

Like, I used to think that maybe Simon is a better puncheur and Adam a better climber or whatever but I don't know anymore.
They are the same (same genes).
 
Apr 17, 2014
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hrotha said:
Okay, I need to get this sorted out sooner rather than later:

Are they, in fact, exactly the same kind of rider?

Like, I used to think that maybe Simon is a better puncheur and Adam a better climber or whatever but I don't know anymore.
I think they are pretty similar. I have seen Simon do some decent TT but not sure about Adam!? Adam won a 1 day race last year and was in the winning move for san sebastian before crashing so maybe Adam is slightly more punchy. Tbh it is hard to guess at this stage. I think only 3 weeks of hard racing and/or hard one day classics will really differentiate between the two in terms of climbing, recovery, tactics, TT, etc
 
Jul 4, 2015
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hrotha said:
Genes ain't the only thing that affect performance or specialization.
True, but they ride for the same team, train together.... The schlecks for example were pretty much identical, I think the yates bros are as similar.
 
Jul 20, 2015
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Ramon Koran said:
hrotha said:
Genes ain't the only thing that affect performance or specialization.
True, but they ride for the same team, train together.... The schlecks for example were pretty much identical, I think the yates bros are as similar.
Yes but Andy was always seen as the more talented rider. Haven't seen the fact that Simon was in the BC academy and Adam raced in France affecting their approach to racing, yet
 
May 28, 2012
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Ramon Koran said:
hrotha said:
Genes ain't the only thing that affect performance or specialization.
True, but they ride for the same team, train together.... The schlecks for example were pretty much identical, I think the yates bros are as similar.
The Schlecks were pretty similar, with Andy being by far the most talented though. With the Yates bros this difference is not apparant as such.
 
As someone who has followed their progress now for some time even I am struggling to see which one will be better or what the difference is. It truly is down to which twin arrives in the better form. Adam produced a great climbing display in Tirreno whilst Simon was strong in the Basque. So you'd have thought perhaps Adam was the man for longer climbs and Simon for shorter, steep stuff.

However fast forward and Simon has a super Dauphine and also gets an 11th up Alpe D'Huez whilst also featuring in several mountain breaks whilst Adam attacks on Bretagne but also puts in a good ride to finish 7th on Pierre-Saint-Martin where Froome went nuclear.

In summary, I haven't a clue! But they are young and are learning fast whilst being looked after well by Orica.
 

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