Teams & Riders Brothers in (crank) arms - Yates Discussion Thread

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

With due respect, that will be dependant on where he's going to be riding next year. If he's going elsewhere then it's unlikely. If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

You're suggesting that Simon Yates should expect to have an equal role within the team to the runner up of this year's Giro and a top 5 finisher in last year's Vuelta too?

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

With due respect, that will be dependant on where he's going to be riding next year. If he's going elsewhere then it's unlikely. If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

You're suggesting that Simon Yates should expect to have an equal role within the team to the runner up of this year's Giro and a top 5 finisher in last year's Vuelta too?

Basically ... Yes. Its inescapable that both Yates will be the subject of considerable market interest. Some will offer bigger $$$ than OGE whilst other will most likely dangle the carrot of premier status. OGE are going to need to effectively counter at least one of these fronts if they are to retain either/both.

S Yates MAY be willing to say "no probs, I'll ride support for Chaves at the Vuelta" but we cannot assume that this will necessarily be the case. IF he is heading elsewhere next year, then its probably rendered moot anyway.

 

[greenedge]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

With due respect, that will be dependant on where he's going to be riding next year. If he's going elsewhere then it's unlikely. If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

He should suck it up and ride- it'll help him in his GT development and Chaves as of now has elevated himself above both the Yates brothers GT performance wise (for now). Even if he doesn't stay at OGE, why would he not ride the Vuelta if it's to help someone? Without doing the Vuelta, he'd have only done Paris-Nice this year as a high quality race that allows him to develop climbing wise.

It would be nice to see a team of S.Yates, Amets, Plaza, Howson, Haig and maybe Meier riding for Chaves on the climbs,whilst riders like Bewley and Tuft can ride on the flats.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

With due respect, that will be dependant on where he's going to be riding next year. If he's going elsewhere then it's unlikely. If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

He should suck it up and ride- it'll help him in his GT development and Chaves as of now has elevated himself above both the Yates brothers GT performance wise (for now). Even if he doesn't stay at OGE, why would he not ride the Vuelta if it's to help someone? Without doing the Vuelta, he'd have only done Paris-Nice this year as a high quality race that allows him to develop climbing wise.

It would be nice to see a team of S.Yates, Amets, Plaza, Howson, Haig and maybe Meier riding for Chaves on the climbs,whilst riders like Bewley and Tuft can ride on the flats.

If he's already signed to another team, it's far less likely OGE will send him to the Vuelta. More often than not, teams tend to sideline riders heading elsewhere as much as possible (less WT points going elsewhere) unless they have no other alternatives. They COULD still send him (if he is leaving); just saying its far from certain they would.

As it is, we don't know what the Chaves/Yates dynamic/relationship is like ........ if indeed there is any to speak of. I certainly DO see them sending Haig to give him a taste, his performances have certainly warranted it.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

With due respect, that will be dependant on where he's going to be riding next year. If he's going elsewhere then it's unlikely. If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

The plan is for each of the Yates boys to ride GC at the Vuelta and Giro in 2017 - S.Yates riding Vuelta in 2016 is because of circumstances - Think OGE should seriously look at Pantano from IAM for climbing support.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

With due respect, that will be dependant on where he's going to be riding next year. If he's going elsewhere then it's unlikely. If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

He should suck it up and ride- it'll help him in his GT development and Chaves as of now has elevated himself above both the Yates brothers GT performance wise (for now). Even if he doesn't stay at OGE, why would he not ride the Vuelta if it's to help someone? Without doing the Vuelta, he'd have only done Paris-Nice this year as a high quality race that allows him to develop climbing wise.

It would be nice to see a team of S.Yates, Amets, Plaza, Howson, Haig and maybe Meier riding for Chaves on the climbs,whilst riders like Bewley and Tuft can ride on the flats.

That's a good team - I suspect Haig will miss the Vuelta as he's had a heavy workload for a Neo-pro - Expect Keukeliere to ride the Vuelta and Gerrans will ride if he misses the cut for the TDF - Probably find Magnus Cort will also ride and try to win a sprint stage.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

With due respect, that will be dependant on where he's going to be riding next year. If he's going elsewhere then it's unlikely. If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

The plan is for each of the Yates boys to ride GC at the Vuelta and Giro in 2017 - S.Yates riding Vuelta in 2016 is because of circumstances - Think OGE should seriously look at Pantano from IAM for climbing support.

Correction, OGE's plan may well be as you say but doesn't that hinge around the key point; WHO are they riding for next year ? Something that as yet remains undetermined

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

With due respect, that will be dependant on where he's going to be riding next year. If he's going elsewhere then it's unlikely. If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

The plan is for each of the Yates boys to ride GC at the Vuelta and Giro in 2017 - S.Yates riding Vuelta in 2016 is because of circumstances - Think OGE should seriously look at Pantano from IAM for climbing support.

Correction, OGE's plan may well be as you say but doesn't that hinge around the key point; WHO are they riding for next year ? Something that as yet remains undetermined

Have posted at all times everything is dependant on Yates boys resigning - My understanding both boys have been offered new contracts - Could be a sticking point over length.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

With due respect, that will be dependant on where he's going to be riding next year. If he's going elsewhere then it's unlikely. If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

He should suck it up and ride- it'll help him in his GT development and Chaves as of now has elevated himself above both the Yates brothers GT performance wise (for now). Even if he doesn't stay at OGE, why would he not ride the Vuelta if it's to help someone? Without doing the Vuelta, he'd have only done Paris-Nice this year as a high quality race that allows him to develop climbing wise.

It would be nice to see a team of S.Yates, Amets, Plaza, Howson, Haig and maybe Meier riding for Chaves on the climbs,whilst riders like Bewley and Tuft can ride on the flats.

That's a good team - I suspect Haig will miss the Vuelta as he's had a heavy workload for a Neo-pro - Expect Keukeliere to ride the Vuelta and Gerrans will ride if he misses the cut for the TDF - Probably find Magnus Cort will also ride and try to win a sprint stage.

- Haig will almost certainly be given a rest after TdS; they MAY potentially give him a run-out for first half of the Vuelta but maybe not. Much may depend on the condition/form of others.
- Gerrans = may depend on the contractual situation AND/OR who out of he & Matthews goes to the Laurentian races as "the man".
- Keukeleire - maybe but may depend on whether Eneco is a target for this year
- Cort raced Eneco last year and picked up some reasonable stage finishes. Would like to see him given a run-out in a GT as I feel his overall potential is excellent.
- DO hope they don't take the showboater to the Vuelta. We can always hope some other team offers him big $$$ and he takes it ! He's too labour intensive to coexist with a serious GC assault.

 

[Ricco']

Re: Re:

- Keukeleire - maybe but may depend on whether Eneco is a target for this year

Eneco doesn't start until 1 week after the end of the Vuelta.

For a sprinter like Keukeleire he could come with some momentum off the Vuelta to give it a go, I think. Assuming that he rides the Vuelta for 3 weeks.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

- Keukeleire - maybe but may depend on whether Eneco is a target for this year

Eneco doesn't start until 1 week after the end of the Vuelta.

For a sprinter like Keukeleire he could come with some momentum off the Vuelta to give it a go, I think. Assuming that he rides the Vuelta for 3 weeks.

A very plausible scenario and frankly one that I would agree with although I wouldn't classify him as a sprinter per se. Quick finisher yes but more a strong classics type rider. They may send him to Hamburg & Pluoay instead.

Mistake in my previous post, should have read rest after Slovenia for Haig

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

Well, if that's the case then he's a total tool with no self awareness (and I don't believe he is). Besides, they could still be considered GC men of similar status, just at this point, Simon has proven week long stage race chops, not GT chops. He can't honestly expect to have exactly the same status right now as a guy with 2 top 5 GT results who was under a minute from a Giro win. I like him as a rider, he's got some really good SR results and I think he's going to have a really good career, but he hasn't won a single race as a pro (though he did once win a race against pros).

And he could be a backup option at the Vuelta and get the chance to see what it's like trying to ride at the pointy end of a GT day after day. Honestly can't imagine him expecting more from a GT at this stage.

Not to mention the clinic stuff is going to stick to him a bit, right or wrong. I don't see him going prima donna at this point.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Well, the Simon news is good news for Chaves - he'll have someone to hopefully be there in the high mountains with him at the Vuelta

If he (or his brother) are staying then its likely to be on the basis that they are viewed as GC men on equal status to Chaves. WILL he be willing to accept secondary status for this Vuelta, a race that he feels is climatically too hot for him ?

Well, if that's the case then he's a total tool with no self awareness (and I don't believe he is). Besides, they could still be considered GC men of similar status, just at this point, Simon has proven week long stage race chops, not GT chops. He can't honestly expect to have exactly the same status right now as a guy with 2 top 5 GT results who was under a minute from a Giro win. I like him as a rider, he's got some really good SR results and I think he's going to have a really good career, but he hasn't won a single race as a pro (though he did once win a race against pros).

And he could be a backup option at the Vuelta and get the chance to see what it's like trying to ride at the pointy end of a GT day after day. Honestly can't imagine him expecting more from a GT at this stage.

Not to mention the clinic stuff is going to stick to him a bit, right or wrong. I don't see him going prima donna at this point.

Whilst I agree in concept with what you are saying and this would be an ideal scenario; the fact is that we ARE dealing with people's psyches, in particular that of one young male. Much will depend on the mentality & wisdom of those advising him.

There may be some fall-out/taint from the "clinic issue", but more often than not this is overplayed as most team bosses are pragmatists at heart and he, and his brother, are seem as major prospects who are already delivering some significant results. It is beyond doubt that some of the blandishments put before him will include him being "the number one man" ..... even if this wouldn't play out in reality.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

'First week' down then, first proper test tomorrow but no silly time loss so far so it may be we're about to see the first Yates attempt at a GT GC rather than dropping daft time and going in breaks.

 

[Oliwright]

"I won't try to loose time" Sounds like a Gc challenge but not publicly stating it to avoid pressure on Adam.

 

[SlickMongoose]

Yep, moment of truth coming up for Adam, he's done well to stay with the leaders so far, and he looked good on the finish of stage 5.

I'm hoping he at least gives GC a go, he can always fall back on stage hunting if he loses a lot of time.

Surely white jersey has to be a goal, even if Kelderman and Barguil will be tough to beat.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Not losing time so far indicates he seems to be giving GC a go and seeing how he does. If he was stage hunting he would probably have soft pedalled a few stages already.

 

[Oliwright]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/adam-yates-reiterates-isnt-targeting-tour-de-france-gc-256021

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/adam-yates-reiterates-isnt-targeting-tour-de-france-gc-256021

I’ll just try and stay up there [GC] as long as possible and try to take that stage win,” the 23-year-old said.


If he's nicely placed in a week's time it doesn't sound like he'll be throwing it away. Good stuff.

 

[yaco]

Stage victory is the number one target - Would like to finish top 3 in Young riders classification - S.Yates returns to racing next week in the Tour of Poland and will ride the Vuelta.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Look good on the climb and unfortunate on the descent. Apparently not badly injured should be ok for the rest of the tour

 

[TMP402]

Re:

Look good on the climb and unfortunate on the descent. Apparently not badly injured should be ok for the rest of the tour

If given his rightful place back...

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

white jersey, 2nd on GC, BOOM

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

white jersey, 2nd on GC, BOOM

Brilliant! If GVA cracks tomorrow and he keeps with the GC group he could have yellow!

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

white jersey, 2nd on GC, BOOM

So he dropped Dan Martin in the 4km of descending between the top of the Aspin and the 3km mark?