Teams & Riders Brothers in (crank) arms - Yates Discussion Thread

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Jan 4, 2012
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SlickMongoose said:
It's a shame because in non-tdf races they've been great fun.

Maybe it just reflects the way the tdf is seen by teams in general - unfortunately, a decent GC placing is too important to take a risk.
Probably partly that and the classic problem of it being hard to attacked when you're fighting to not be dropped. I like to think as years pass and they become stronger they'll be able to attack at the tour in the same way they do in non-tour races.
 
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SlickMongoose said:
It's a shame because in non-tdf races they've been great fun.

Maybe it just reflects the way the tdf is seen by teams in general - unfortunately, a decent GC placing is too important to take a risk.
I can agree with this, although I would say that Simon tends to be the more adventurous rider. At least he was willing to make a few genuine moves to improve his position during this Tour whereas Adam WAS probably as risk-averse at this year's Giro as he was at last year's Tour. The Vuelta tends to be a far less "controlled" race and Simon WAS certainly willing to chance his arm at various points of last year's Vuelta, granted with the aid of a surprisingly strong & committed team.
 
I rate Adam's performance in the Giro, higher than Simon's performance in the TDF - When you consider the quality of the field, difficulty of the route, and of course Adam's crash in stage 9, then he performed at a higher level - Anyway the next three months could shape Adam's career - He has never been in form once we hit August in his career - The next three months will tell us plenty.
 
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SlickMongoose said:
It's a shame because in non-tdf races they've been great fun.

Maybe it just reflects the way the tdf is seen by teams in general - unfortunately, a decent GC placing is too important to take a risk.
I think part of it is down to the team, Orica set out both last year and this year to win the white jersey and that's been achieved. They are also a level below the best climbers at this stage in their careers so it's difficult to attack when Sky are there pumping out the watts on the front and they are hanging on.

Easy to call them boring but what use is a pointless attack to just get reeled in, dropped and lose a chunk of time at the finish? Plus, let's not forget Simon rode a much more offensive Vuelta last year when the overall strength of teams was less, with both also being entertaining in other races.
 
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yaco said:
I rate Adam's performance in the Giro, higher than Simon's performance in the TDF - When you consider the quality of the field, difficulty of the route, and of course Adam's crash in stage 9, then he performed at a higher level - Anyway the next three months could shape Adam's career - He has never been in form once we hit August in his career - The next three months will tell us plenty.
His Canadian month in 2015 wasn't that bad was it?
 
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liamito said:
yaco said:
I rate Adam's performance in the Giro, higher than Simon's performance in the TDF - When you consider the quality of the field, difficulty of the route, and of course Adam's crash in stage 9, then he performed at a higher level - Anyway the next three months could shape Adam's career - He has never been in form once we hit August in his career - The next three months will tell us plenty.
His Canadian month in 2015 wasn't that bad was it?
Look At his 2014 and in 2016, and then you'll see how important are the last 3 months of 2017 - Especially seeing he is riding the Vuelta.
 
It may have been asked up the thread, and I am not suggesting for a moment that it has happened, but do race organisers have any way of checking that they do not substitute for each other during stage races?

A DS would have to be tempted when there are 2 or 3 really tough days in a row.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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Hayabusa said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Maybe the should try the switcheroo. Line up with 1 Yates. Then switch every X amount of stages. Probably nobody will notice.
They have been doing that for years.. :razz:
Yeah, that's the reason why you never see both of hem doing well in the same stage race. :D
 
Sep 17, 2014
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Armchair cyclist said:
It may have been asked up the thread, and I am not suggesting for a moment that it has happened, but do race organisers have any way of checking that they do not substitute for each other during stage races?

A DS would have to be tempted when there are 2 or 3 really tough days in a row.
There are blood tests that can differentiate, so I guess if there was genuine suspicion they could go back through old blood samples.

Cycling has a very rich history of cheating in a wide variety of ways, but I think a twin swap would top the lot.
 
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SlickMongoose said:
Armchair cyclist said:
It may have been asked up the thread, and I am not suggesting for a moment that it has happened, but do race organisers have any way of checking that they do not substitute for each other during stage races?

A DS would have to be tempted when there are 2 or 3 really tough days in a row.
There are blood tests that can differentiate, so I guess if there was genuine suspicion they could go back through old blood samples.

Cycling has a very rich history of cheating in a wide variety of ways, but I think a twin swap would top the lot.
It has already happened.
 
Here's something I personally find kinda funny:
Starting with the 2016 TdF they've basically taken turns in cracking the Top-10 in GTs. Adam-Simon-Adam-Simon. :p

Alexandre B. said:
SlickMongoose said:
Armchair cyclist said:
It may have been asked up the thread, and I am not suggesting for a moment that it has happened, but do race organisers have any way of checking that they do not substitute for each other during stage races?

A DS would have to be tempted when there are 2 or 3 really tough days in a row.
There are blood tests that can differentiate, so I guess if there was genuine suspicion they could go back through old blood samples.

Cycling has a very rich history of cheating in a wide variety of ways, but I think a twin swap would top the lot.
It has already happened.
Wait... wait... what? :surprised:
 
If we trust their own team's attestation that they are genetically identical, why would their blood or urine be distinguishable?

Again, I'm not suggesting that it has happened, just wondering whether there are safeguards against it. But I'm intrigued by Alexandre's claim that it has happened, and would like to know more.

Is Rick willing to give any source to justify the confidence of his assertion?
 
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Armchair cyclist said:
If we trust their own team's attestation that they are genetically identical, why would their blood or urine be distinguishable?

Again, I'm not suggesting that it has happened, just wondering whether there are safeguards against it. But I'm intrigued by Alexandre's claim that it has happened, and would like to know more.

Is Rick willing to give any source to justify the confidence of his assertion?
Not Rick, but...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/twin-engines-up-close-with-the-yates-brothers/

"A lot is made of the difficulty of telling one Yates twin from the other. But in the flesh it’s pretty easy. While helmets and distance limit the information television viewers have to work with (unless you know that at the Tour, Adam wore sunglasses with green frames while Simon’s were white), they look different in real life. It’s often reported that they are identical twins but they are actually fraternal (non-identical) twins. They don’t look the same: their noses point in subtly different directions, Simon’s smile is slightly wider, his hairline lower; their faces are a different shape. It also helps that Adam tends to wear a beard, while Simon is clean shaven. Look a bit more closely and Adam’s got a scar running down the right side of his chin. Adam’s quiff is higher than Simon’s – ever the rebellious younger brother."
 
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Armchair cyclist said:
If we trust their own team's attestation that they are genetically identical, why would their blood or urine be distinguishable?

Again, I'm not suggesting that it has happened, just wondering whether there are safeguards against it. But I'm intrigued by Alexandre's claim that it has happened, and would like to know more.

Is Rick willing to give any source to justify the confidence of his assertion?


They look too different to be identical imo, but that's no scientific evidence.

It would be possible to distinguish by finding the differences in somatic mutations that happen early on in embryonic development, but it depends on when and where they happen in embryonic development. It's definitely possible, but it's just a huge pain to do it.

Basically do whole genome sequencing of different tissues, look for SNPs, find the different ones, and then test those SNPs every time they race together.
 
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Red Rick said:
Armchair cyclist said:
If we trust their own team's attestation that they are genetically identical, why would their blood or urine be distinguishable?

Again, I'm not suggesting that it has happened, just wondering whether there are safeguards against it. But I'm intrigued by Alexandre's claim that it has happened, and would like to know more.

Is Rick willing to give any source to justify the confidence of his assertion?


They look too different to be identical imo, but that's no scientific evidence.
Sure, if they're sitting right next to each other it's quite easy to see that they look differently. But if they aren't? People might forget who has which "identity markers".
Which one's which, btw?
 

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