Teams & Riders Brothers in (crank) arms - Yates Discussion Thread

[Gigs_98]

Yates said he felt lost condition in 2019 due to the really flat first half of the race and then in 2020 he got covid, so this is his first GC attempt since 2018 that should truly show how good he really is. Basically, he has not been able to show his true grand tour ability in nearly 3 years.

I disagree that he didn't have a proper attempt in 2019 just because he didn't like the route enough. Covid sure, that was just bad luck, but "I feel like I lost my shape because there weren't enough mountains in the first week" is one of the weaker excuses for a bad performance.

Anyway, we'll see who is right, but I remain with my point that todays performance puts a major question mark next to his name.

 

[Roku]

The issue with Yates is consistency, recovery and endurance. Simon has never been a reliable GT contender, and never performed that well during the three whole weeks of a GT, with the exception of 2018 Vuelta. His base level is a fringe Top5 contender. No surprise the only GT he won was La Vuelta, which is by far the less challenging in terms of endurance (short stages and only 1-2 multi-mountain stages), which allowed him to minimize his weak points.

When a rider has a history of collapsing (like he did for three years in a row in the Giro), the outlier is the rare ocassion he doesn't (Vuelta 2018).

 

[AlfaLum]

Its too early for conclusions for most people because it is simply too early for conclusions, especially with these weather conditions.

If Yates loses time again tomorrow it will be a different story. But writing him off now after losing a few seconds is way too early.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm willing to be lenient on the 2018 Giro cause that was a crazy one and he wasn't the only one that collapsed.

The weird thing however becomes that we've been talking about is he that good/is he not that good for like 3 years now and he's basically shown it in like 1.8 GTs while also really only bottling one GT hard

 

[Gigs_98]

I'm not gonna be smug just yet. After all, today was clearly down to the weather.

 

[johnymax]

I'm not gonna be smug just yet. After all, today was clearly down to the weather.

You'll have to wait. This is clearly his tactic right now:

I think S.Yates is doing reverse Giro 2018. He will demolish everyone in week 3. Mark my words.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Hmmmm. He’s only lost 38 seconds, which is nothing at this point. But of all the GC contenders, he‘s the one for whom it feels most ominous to lose a few seconds on each of the first two climber’s finishes.

 

[broppo]

wet weather is his kryptonite, unfortunately it will rain a lot this giro...

 

[tobydawq]

Never trust a Yates to deliver yet I did it again god damnit. He's the big loser of today. Remco was expected to improve throughout the race. Yates was supposedly the most ready gc contender after dominating the main preparation race, yet on the first important stage he looked like anything but. Also I don't buy into the "it's the weather" narrative. That sounds so much like the kind of excuse we always have for gc contenders early in gt's before we realize they are just bad.

Today he was bad again but it was raining so we can't assess the legitimacy of your point of view yet.

Hopefully, we will soon have a hard stage in sunny weather so we can see whether he can weather the weather whether it's raining or not.

 

[Red Rick]

Starting to look like a guy who just had one magical year

 

[AlfaLum]

He has lost these first two skirmishes, which is never a good thing. But to be fair he did have a lot against him in those two stages.

Starting from Zoncolan the tables will turn. Remco is unproven in the High Mountains and Bernals changes of suffering from his back injury will increase more and more. If Yates has his best form in the third week i still consider him a big contender. There will be many stages where the time losses will be so big that the time losses suffered now will be insignificant.

 

[Gigs_98]

wet weather is his kryptonite, unfortunately it will rain a lot this giro...

I've asked this before but didn't get an answer. Is there any evidence, prior to this season, pointing towards Yates being bad in wet weather?

 

[Red Rick]

I've asked this before but didn't get an answer. Is there any evidence, prior to this season, pointing towards Yates being bad in wet weather?

I think it comes from the 2018 Giro meltdown where the weather was dogshit right before he completely collapsed or something?

I'm pretty sure he won in PN in the pouring rain, then the next day he was ***, but I don't really think weather is a strong excuse here.

 

[yaco]

When Yates enters a GT he always retains the same base level while occasionally tapering off a bit in the third week - He has never improved his level from the beginning to the end of a GT - So unless he overturns history he'll end up between 7th to9th - I'll wait until the end of the Giro to show how TBE and Yates have failed to make the most of his talents.

Cold weather - Undoubtedly Yates at times can struggle in COLD and Rainy conditions - But it has to be both - Stage four was one of 'those days' although IMO stage 6 didn't fit the criteria - Finally, Adam is the opposite - He has struggled in GT's because of hot conditions.

 

[SafeBet]

I think it comes from the 2018 Giro meltdown where the weather was dogshit right before he completely collapsed or something?

I was both on Pratonevoso and Finestre. Both mostly sunny days. I think it had rained on Finestre the days before the stage since there was some mud but not that day.

 

[Red Rick]

I was both on Pratonevoso and Finestre. Both mostly sunny days. I think it had rained on Finestre the days before the stage since there was some mud but not that day.

I blame you now for what happened

But I was taljing about that stage right sfter the ITT

 

[Blanco]

If he ride like this on Zoncolan, then I guess he won't win this Giro, but until then I would hold my breath. He could still bounce back, on a good day he is a magnificent climber and we have plenty of hard mountains in the second half of the Giro. It certainly doesn't look good when he loses time on this kind of stages, but the loss itself is not so significant. As I said, if he finds legs, which is not by any means impossible (he had them two weeks ago..), he'll be a very serious contender.

 

[Pinot's goat]

He cramped at Tirreno then Prati di Tivo happened two days later, I still have faith in him to come good.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

He blows so hot and cold simon yates.

He looked by far the strongest in Alpes few weeks ago now struggling.
2020 he dominated Tirreno in September then was horrible in the giro on etna before his abandon.
2019 he was all over the place, winning and then getting dropped the next day.

It's like he has a few days a year where he is the best non Slovenian climber in the world but they're never the most important day of his season.

His brother is similar, on a roglic/pogacar level in week races but laughably bad in GTs. But Simon won a vuelta. Just totally weird what goes on.

 

[Pinot's goat]

I have more faith in Yates winning this Giro than at the same point in 2018.

 

[Poursuivant]

Slowly getting better, big chance of a podium if he has his good climbing legs, Zoncolan could be very interesting.

 

[yaco]

Surprised by his performance today - A bit more improvement in his level and a top 5 is a lock and possibly a podium.

 

[Gigs_98]

He was decent today, but I don't actually understand why people are surprised he did well on this sort of terrain. Weren't the Yates's always considered to be at their best in medium mountain stages? I guess we didn't know yet how he would do on gravel but as far as I can recall there wasn't anything suggesting he wouldn't do well on gravel either

 

[postmanhat]

Never been that convinced that he'd peaked too soon because of one good stage in the Tour of the Alps, against a fairly weak field.

 

[limak_]

He was decent today, but I don't actually understand why people are surprised he did well on this sort of terrain. Weren't the Yates's always considered to be at their best in medium mountain stages? I guess we didn't know yet how he would do on gravel but as far as I can recall there wasn't anything suggesting he wouldn't do well on gravel either

It was mainly his own words before the stage that suggested he wouldn't do great on gravel. He expressed his anxiety about the gravel and also said that GT is not a right place for a gravel sectors. Then you'd rather not expect a lot from him with that sort of attitude before even the stage started..
So in this context, his today's performance was quite surprising.