Teams & Riders Brothers in (crank) arms - Yates Discussion Thread

[Poursuivant]

A good GT For Yates, some tough moments, but a great stage win and another GT Podium. I hope one day he wins this race.

 

[Pinot's goat]

I hope Yates trains more in the cold/wet conditions since he will inevitably target the Giro again next year for the 20th year in row.

 

[roundabout]

For a rider who had 13 WT wins (I think) in the last 3 and a half years he seems to need a lot of specific circumstances aligning to win a GT

 

[Red Rick]

For a rider who had 13 WT wins (I think) in the last 3 and a half years he seems to need a lot of specific circumstances aligning to win a GT

Bernal or Yates?

 

[roundabout]

Bernal or Yates?

Yates.

I think Bernal despite showing that he too has his limitations has a far wider variety of conditions where his performance holds up.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It didn't pan out for the overall win but thanks for trying in week 3. Congrats on podium position and a stage win.

That is to Simon, as Adam was assimilated.

 

[Gigs_98]

I feel like this race gave us a slightly better picture of what to think of Yates. He is insanely good on stages that aren't overly hard until the final climb. He can make brutal attacks that hardly anyone can follow but he isn't overly great at sustaining those efforts. Meanwhile he isn't that good if a stage is super tough, if riders are at their limit for hours instead of minutes, the altitude is extremely high or the weather is grueling.

The giro 2018 was a result of everything falling into place for him. The route was completely missing proper multiple mountain stages until the final week, the weather on the gc relevant stages was relatively good and the mountain stages were all a waiting game until one rider put in one big attack relatively close to the finish. We saw that Yates was brilliant in stages that suited him to the toe and just assumed that he would be able to perform that way in different kinds of stages too. At this point I genuinely wonder what would have happened without his complete collapse. He might have struggled to defeat Dumoulin and Froome on stages 19 and 20 anyway.

In comparison, the 2019 Giro had rather few mountain stages but almost all of them were absolutely brutal. Sure, his shape was probably weaker too, but I doubt that pre collapse 2018 would have won that race either.

My question is, how would the Yates who won stage 19 yesterday have fared in comparison to 2018 Yates. I genuinely wonder if he was any weaker or if 2018 was really just the result of an inconsistent rider avoiding to have his bad days when it mattered before collapsing so hard that it can't really be put down to classic inconsistency either.

 

[Red Rick]

I feel like this race gave us a slightly better picture of what to think of Yates. He is insanely good on stages that aren't overly hard until the final climb. He can make brutal attacks that hardly anyone can follow but he isn't overly great at sustaining those efforts. Meanwhile he isn't that good if a stage is super tough, if riders are at their limit for hours instead of minutes, the altitude is extremely high or the weather is grueling.

The giro 2018 was a result of everything falling into place for him. The route was completely missing proper multiple mountain stages until the final week, the weather on the gc relevant stages was relatively good and the mountain stages were all a waiting game until one rider put in one big attack relatively close to the finish. We saw that Yates was brilliant in stages that suited him to the toe and just assumed that he would be able to perform that way in different kinds of stages too. At this point I genuinely wonder what would have happened without his complete collapse. He might have struggled to defeat Dumoulin and Froome on stages 19 and 20 anyway.

In comparison, the 2019 Giro had rather few mountain stages but almost all of them were absolutely brutal. Sure, his shape was probably weaker too, but I doubt that pre collapse 2018 would have won that race either.

My question is, how would the Yates who won stage 19 yesterday have fared in comparison to 2018 Yates. I genuinely wonder if he was any weaker or if 2018 was really just the result of an inconsistent rider avoiding to have his bad days when it mattered before collapsing so hard that it can't really be put down to classic inconsistency either.

The 2018 had some crazy hard racing even on stages Yates did well on. That collapse was real, by all means he shouldn't have been dropped on Prato Nevoso. The Etna stage was ridden pretty hard from beginning to end with Chaves in the break IIRC, and Gran Sasso was also really hard.

It 2019 he just lost form midway through the Giro and was dogshit in the San Marino ITT already. In the Vuelta he won there wasn't really a strong pattern, his best days were the best in the race but he still got dropped 2 or 3 times.

I do think the most logical conclusion on Yates is just that he's mercurial as all ***. Do think this is the first GT where he did get better during the race.

 

[Forever The Best]

All in all, a stage win and 3rd overall wouldn't be bad, but he seems much weaker in cold/rainy weather than I thought.
I also think 2018 collapse may need to be discussed in a different subforum, especially with Chavez's form that race as well.

 

[Bolder]

I take him at his word that he was a bit off in the first week. Barring that and a miraculous performance from Caruso, and he’d be very close to Bernal, who’s probably more skilled overall and has a vastly superior team. I think Simon had a great Giro, all things considered.

 

[roundabout]

I think there is a difference between a stage that is raced hard, but where Yates can chill at the back of the group doing 200 watts and a stage with climbs where drafting matters less and/or where more than 1 longer sustained effort has to be made

 

[lenric]

so he seems rather suited for the Vuelta

 

[Pinot's goat]

so he seems rather suited for the Vuelta

I think that was clear when he won it.

 

[Poursuivant]

Is he stage hunting at TDF next? Would like to see him go for Vuelta instead.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Is he stage hunting at TDF next? Would like to see him go for Vuelta instead.

Stage hunting and Olympic preparation at the TDF.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Simon Yates is a true Dark horse. You never know.
I think he should focus on the Tour Vuelta combo and forget about the Giro. Instead the 1st half should be week races and hilly classics. He should also check as to how much weather affects him. Also he should carefully recon the weather forecast before committing to a race.

 

[yaco]

I'd rather Yates and Chaves go to the Vuelta as stage hunters BUT it's likely they are both riding the TDF.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Congrats to the good Yates on another hugely entertaining win

 

[Mayomaniac]

The 2018 had some crazy hard racing even on stages Yates did well on. That collapse was real, by all means he shouldn't have been dropped on Prato Nevoso. The Etna stage was ridden pretty hard from beginning to end with Chaves in the break IIRC, and Gran Sasso was also really hard.

It 2019 he just lost form midway through the Giro and was dogshit in the San Marino ITT already. In the Vuelta he won there wasn't really a strong pattern, his best days were the best in the race but he still got dropped 2 or 3 times.

I do think the most logical conclusion on Yates is just that he's mercurial as all ***. Do think this is the first GT where he did get better during the race.

Also, the Sappada stage right after the Zoncolan stage was ridden hard, EF and Woods set a high tempo already on the Passo Tre Croci and Yates won after a long solo.
He seems really mercurial, but I have to say that I still have some question marks about him in multi-mountain stages at altitude.
I also feel that he should probably stagehunt at the Tour and go for the GC at the Vuelta, that's the one gt where he can legit fight for the overall win.

 

[AlfaLum]

Also, the Sappada stage right after the Zoncolan stage was ridden hard, EF and Woods set a high tempo already on the Passo Tre Croci and Yates won after a long solo.
He seems really mercurial, but I have to say that I still have some question marks about him in multi-mountain stages at altitude.
I also feel that he should probably stagehunt at the Tour and go for the GC at the Vuelta, that's the one gt where he can legit fight for the overall win.

He should skip the Tour entirely.

 

[Mayomaniac]

He should skip the Tour entirely.

Now that the team has Groenewegen as a top sprinter for the Tour I can see that happening.

 

[yaco]

The plan is for Yates to go stage hunting at the TDF.

 

[Strawberry_Jams]

simon could be in for a good year, matt white seems happy that he's had a good winter base with no set backs like he has had in previous years with covid - seems that had an influence on his consistancy.

 

[yaco]

Think this year they've focused on having a good level throughout the season , unlike 2021 when they played around with his form - Anyway he wins Catalunya if he shows the same level as he did in PN.

 

[AlfaLum]

The plan is for Yates to go stage hunting at the TDF.

I know, and I still think it is a stupid plan. They have done that for multiple years now. But Yates his best year by far was the year where he did Giro + Vuelta. If he does it this year I think he has a good chance to podium both races. In the Tour he might have a chance to win stages, but there aren't too many chances there.