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Bryneel about contador

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Oct 27, 2009
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There is no con. There is no grand conspiracy. Everyone in this thread is making mountains out of mole hills. I think everyone needs to calm down! Should Lance have shut up and not tweeted certain things about AC, yes. Should AC have gone after Lance in an interview following the Tour or after Levi following the Vuelta? No. Levi tweeted something about AC but then following that, I heard him say good things about AC and stepped back from his remark. See the interview he did for Road Magazine. Mistakes were made all around from a PR point of view. It's over and done. This stuff should have been kept in house. This stuff breaks up teams in other sports and cycling.

For those who said AC's bike was messed with so he could not be at the front during training camp rides, then explain to me why there are numerous photos of AC being at the front with Lance, Levi, and Kloden? Johan's tactic has always been you ride for the strongest rider and you make sure you have a teammate high up in GC in case something happens to your main guy. That's why AC and Levi went 1-2 in the Vuelta and Lance always had a teammate high in GC when he was winning.
I'm not a Lance fangirl or an AC fangirl here I am just trying to find middle ground in this and look at all sides to this big ole mess.
 
Woolhat67 said:
There is no con. There is no grand conspiracy. Everyone in this thread is making mountains out of mole hills. I think everyone needs to calm down! Should Lance have shut up and not tweeted certain things about AC, yes. Should AC have gone after Lance in an interview following the Tour or after Levi following the Vuelta? No. Levi tweeted something about AC but then following that, I heard him say good things about AC and stepped back from his remark. See the interview he did for Road Magazine. Mistakes were made all around from a PR point of view. It's over and done. This stuff should have been kept in house. This stuff breaks up teams in other sports and cycling.

For those who said AC's bike was messed with so he could not be at the front during training camp rides, then explain to me why there are numerous photos of AC being at the front with Lance, Levi, and Kloden? Johan's tactic has always been you ride for the strongest rider and you make sure you have a teammate high up in GC in case something happens to your main guy. That's why AC and Levi went 1-2 in the Vuelta and Lance always had a teammate high in GC when he was winning.
I'm not a Lance fangirl or an AC fangirl here I am just trying to find middle ground in this and look at all sides to this big ole mess.

That's always been the case except in this year's TdF. And it might be true that Lance had someone that end high up on GC, but I don't recall there EVER being a discussion or concern about one of his domestiques podium position. It was immaterial when he was riding for USPS/Discovery, it should have been immaterial for Astana 2009. I bet you it will be immaterial for RadioShack 2010.
 
Apr 12, 2009
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Woolhat67 said:
Johan's tactic has always been you ride for the strongest rider and you make sure you have a teammate high up in GC in case something happens to your main guy. That's why AC and Levi went 1-2 in the Vuelta and Lance always had a teammate high in GC when he was winning.
I'm not a Lance fangirl or an AC fangirl here I am just trying to find middle ground in this and look at all sides to this big ole mess.

actually that's wrong johan's tactic has always been go for the win with your strongest rider and then have a rider like landis or heras who has won a grand tour to sacrifice himself for the good of the leader, I'm pretty sure that didn't happen on even one occasion this year for alberto.
 
RTMcFadden said:
I think they very much saw that coming. Hence the clause in JB's contract. As well, I believe this was the basis of the whole non-payment issue that happened before the TdF. Also, given that RS was announced during the tour, these negociations had to have been taking place much earlier in the year. So, I think they were all jocking for position since very early in the season.

Really? Have you ever asked yourself why LA didn't sign a contract with Astana in the first place? LA & JB had already talked to Radio shack as a part of his comeback!! They were using Astana to bring LA back to top level competition while the new team was getting put together behind closed doors. As soon as the deal was sealed, they would create any kind of incident to walk away from it.
You also want to ask yourself why the Astana sponsors never failed payments to AC & the Kazakhs but the rest of the team...

Please take the time to revise the incidents in a retrospective occurrence and you find endless inconsistencies & nasty coincidences in JC/LA actions since the infamous "comeback"
 
Apr 30, 2009
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Woolhat67 said:
There is no con. There is no grand conspiracy. Everyone in this thread is making mountains out of mole hills. I think everyone needs to calm down! Should Lance have shut up and not tweeted certain things about AC, yes. Should AC have gone after Lance in an interview following the Tour or after Levi following the Vuelta? No. Levi tweeted something about AC but then following that, I heard him say good things about AC and stepped back from his remark. See the interview he did for Road Magazine. Mistakes were made all around from a PR point of view. It's over and done. This stuff should have been kept in house. This stuff breaks up teams in other sports and cycling.

Everyone has probably covered everything by now, but my hope is that Mr. Bruyneel was seriously misquoted or he is a bigger dork than I had thought. There is really no evidence around to suggest that Mr. Contador's behavior was or is some how inappropriate, so I really wonder when Mr. Bruyneel says Contador has a lot to learn. About what? Being an Armstrong weenie? Quite honestly, it appears to me that Mr. Contador is a quick study and immediately saw the value of having his own mechanic, which if anything, is a smart way to get his brother on each of the stages with him. This speaks volumes about Bruyneel, rather than Contador, since it appears, as the team manager, Bruyneel was unable or unwilling to cultivate trust among the players. In all fairness to Bruyneel, it would appear that Mr. Armstrong calls the shots, in fact the interview sounded a lot like Armstrong's interview after the TDF, when he said that Contador had a lot to learn, and then just walked away from the interviewer, who was groveling at his feet. All the more reason for Contador to protect himself, and for us all to just roll our eyes when Bruyneel says anything. I think what some people don't see or don't want to see is just how big a jerk Armstrong made of himself with all of his tweets and twits, as well as his behavior during the TDF and immediately after. You don't go to the Team Victory Party? You announce the formation of your own team, while you are still engaged in an event? I had a great deal of respect for Armstrong, but he has changed. He is a politician, not a cyclist. His nice remarks about Contador came after he was so poorly reviewed for all the trash he had said. Does anyone really believe that Armstrong is a legitimate contender for anything? Please! I like cycling but I like good sportsmanship above all things in sport, and Armstrong, and now Bruyneel, simply confirm the fact that they are not. Rather than Contador aligning with his brother, what is truly sad is that Bruyneel doesn't yet see or understand that Contador not just won the TDF on his own but against his own team, as well. I give Mr. Contador a lot of credit for such a young man. Let him enjoy the limelight.
 
Woolhat67 said:
There is no con. There is no grand conspiracy. Everyone in this thread is making mountains out of mole hills. I think everyone needs to calm down!

If your con comment is in reference to my post, you seem to have missed my point. When dominant athletes fade or age or both, their competitors no longer treat them as such an unstoppable force, this of course enables them to beat the formerly dominant player. Partly because they are no longer as dominant but I think even more importantly because they are no longer intimidated. The con is by no means limited to Lance. He is just the subject of this thread (now), but it could be Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, anyone. That is the con. To assist their winning by getting you to beat yourself.

As far as calming down, I couldn't be less agitated if I was sleeping. I don't get too excited by much, least of all this. I'd prolly be better off if I wasn't so detached.

As for the rest of your post, Lance behaved despicably at the tour which is why I don't root for him any longer. I did until July 2009. AC did not retaliate in anything resembling equal measure. I take it upon myself to fill the void of classlessness that AC won't lower himself to.

Levi, Horner, JB, Liggett, Roll, Sherwen and a cast of dozens, they are all bullied by/in awe of Lance, imo, and fear him too much to talk any sense to him. Besides, he's their meal ticket.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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franciep10 said:
actually that's wrong johan's tactic has always been go for the win with your strongest rider and then have a rider like landis or heras who has won a grand tour to sacrifice himself for the good of the leader, I'm pretty sure that didn't happen on even one occasion this year for alberto.
They didn't have to. The only one who put Berto in any trouble was lance. The race was locked after the ttt and berto staked claim to the gc after the first mountain finish.
 
May 26, 2009
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Publicus said:
How do you mean?

I'm guessing he means when Lance got in the split and took 30 seconds. I myself wouldn't say it caused that much trouble, if Arsetrong took 30 minutes maybe, but 30 seconds no way.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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scribe said:
They didn't have to. The only one who put Berto in any trouble was lance. The race was locked after the ttt and berto staked claim to the gc after the first mountain finish.

lol.

I'd say LL or Klöden had a better shot than LA, both beat LA in the prologue/TT, had not the other one crashed out and the other one forced to drag LA up every climb...
Verbier was ironic, since Klöden dragged LA and the rest of the group up on after Contador attacked.
JB showed his colors that day, never, ever would USP/Disco riders be allowed to chase LA...

I wish this rotten duo (LA/JB) to vanish from cycling as soon as possible.
 
Jun 24, 2009
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reubenr said:
Woolhat67 said:
There is no con. There is no grand conspiracy. Everyone in this thread is making mountains out of mole hills. I think everyone needs to calm down! Should Lance have shut up and not tweeted certain things about AC, yes. Should AC have gone after Lance in an interview following the Tour or after Levi following the Vuelta? No. Levi tweeted something about AC but then following that, I heard him say good things about AC and stepped back from his remark. See the interview he did for Road Magazine. Mistakes were made all around from a PR point of view. It's over and done. This stuff should have been kept in house. This stuff breaks up teams in other sports and cycling.

Everyone has probably covered everything by now, but my hope is that Mr. Bruyneel was seriously misquoted or he is a bigger dork than I had thought. There is really no evidence around to suggest that Mr. Contador's behavior was or is some how inappropriate, so I really wonder when Mr. Bruyneel says Contador has a lot to learn. About what? Being an Armstrong weenie? Quite honestly, it appears to me that Mr. Contador is a quick study and immediately saw the value of having his own mechanic, which if anything, is a smart way to get his brother on each of the stages with him. This speaks volumes about Bruyneel, rather than Contador, since it appears, as the team manager, Bruyneel was unable or unwilling to cultivate trust among the players. In all fairness to Bruyneel, it would appear that Mr. Armstrong calls the shots, in fact the interview sounded a lot like Armstrong's interview after the TDF, when he said that Contador had a lot to learn, and then just walked away from the interviewer, who was groveling at his feet. All the more reason for Contador to protect himself, and for us all to just roll our eyes when Bruyneel says anything. I think what some people don't see or don't want to see is just how big a jerk Armstrong made of himself with all of his tweets and twits, as well as his behavior during the TDF and immediately after. You don't go to the Team Victory Party? You announce the formation of your own team, while you are still engaged in an event? I had a great deal of respect for Armstrong, but he has changed. He is a politician, not a cyclist. His nice remarks about Contador came after he was so poorly reviewed for all the trash he had said. Does anyone really believe that Armstrong is a legitimate contender for anything? Please! I like cycling but I like good sportsmanship above all things in sport, and Armstrong, and now Bruyneel, simply confirm the fact that they are not. Rather than Contador aligning with his brother, what is truly sad is that Bruyneel doesn't yet see or understand that Contador not just won the TDF on his own but against his own team, as well. I give Mr. Contador a lot of credit for such a young man. Let him enjoy the limelight.
Bravo! young one. Well spoken.:)
 
Jun 24, 2009
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ggusta said:
If your con comment is in reference to my post, you seem to have missed my point. When dominant athletes fade or age or both, their competitors no longer treat them as such an unstoppable force, this of course enables them to beat the formerly dominant player. Partly because they are no longer as dominant but I think even more importantly because they are no longer intimidated. The con is by no means limited to Lance. He is just the subject of this thread (now), but it could be Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, anyone. That is the con. To assist their winning by getting you to beat yourself.

As far as calming down, I couldn't be less agitated if I was sleeping. I don't get too excited by much, least of all this. I'd prolly be better off if I wasn't so detached.

As for the rest of your post, Lance behaved despicably at the tour which is why I don't root for him any longer. I did until July 2009. AC did not retaliate in anything resembling equal measure. I take it upon myself to fill the void of classlessness that AC won't lower himself to.

Levi, Horner, JB, Liggett, Roll, Sherwen and a cast of dozens, they are all bullied by/in awe of Lance, imo, and fear him too much to talk any sense to him. Besides, he's their meal ticket.
Wow, I loved that! I could feel myself saying the very same words. That was exquisitely eloquent. :D
 
Jun 24, 2009
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Polish said:
Bruyneel seems to be REALLY distancing himself from the Alberto "Clan":

"He started to act solo, together with his brother, who's his personal mechanic and press agent;

"Between us there was always tension. I don't know why. For both of us it's better to split paths"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/bruyneels-year-of-living-stressfully

This seems kind of odd..or maybe savvy is the right word?
No, maybe skanky is the right word.
Especially when Bruyneel adds, right after your split paths quote:
"Maybe later we can get back together when he's become older and wiser."
Pluck him, and the boat he rode back in on. AC should never look his way again. JB didn't know what to do with AC when he had him, If JB didn't learn from his own exercise in bad managing, in France, and his ongoing experiment, on the road with LA, his skull is thicker than a bowling ball. The Dynamic Duo has been impugning AC's intelligence since he showed them that he wasn't going to back down to their covert schemes. But, who's smiling now? Are they proud of being beaten by a less intelligent adversary? I think the coming year is going to be a great learning experience, (although it might not be too happy a time) for the men who make no mistakes.
 
Oct 19, 2009
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Polish said:
Bruyneel seems to be REALLY distancing himself from the Alberto "Clan":

"He started to act solo, together with his brother, who's his personal mechanic and press agent;

"Between us there was always tension. I don't know why. For both of us it's better to split paths"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/bruyneels-year-of-living-stressfully

This seems kind of odd..or maybe savvy is the right word?

OMG, bruyneel thinks he's some god
 
May 26, 2009
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Jeez, the weirdo deconstructing of the most straightforward comments into satan's own words is something to behold. I don't particularly like or dislike either LA or JB more than any other alpha male sports dude - all of whom are likely to be less charming than optimal, including even the usually low key AC - but this stuff is just extreme and hysterical.
 
BYOP88 said:
I'm guessing he means when Lance got in the split and took 30 seconds. I myself wouldn't say it caused that much trouble, if Arsetrong took 30 minutes maybe, but 30 seconds no way.

...and it may have stressed Contador to have seen his "teammates" on the front of the escapees driving the pace, contributing to the time being gained on him and all the other contenders that missed the split.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Black-Balled said:
I will say that Lance has been able to bring money into pro-cycling, while most others are taking from.

This is a myopic view. The cultural of cheating promoted by Armstrong/Brunyeel/ Ferrari has done more to damage the sport and cause sponsors to flee then any Radioshack sponsorship added.
 
Black-Balled said:
I will say that Lance has been able to bring money into pro-cycling, while most others are taking from.

Having missed out on all this stuff over the last few days, I just want to add a few observations.

As far back as March/April, a lot of us on here predicted that Bruyneel/Lance would try to screw AC at the Tour, just check some of the older threads. A lot of what Bruyneel has said in the interview is what we were predicting long before the Tour. Gonna claim the high ground on this one.

What is now funny is to hear guys like RaceRalph, ggusta say the events at the Tour turned them against Lance. It was guys(not necessarily those 2) like them who were arguing that we were being cynical and talking rubbish back then, all because we hated Lance.

Personally, I think Bruyneel gets way too much credit for his role in any Tour wins, Jose Echavarrai and Esubio Unzue were never lionised as great managers the way Bruyneel is and they have almost as many Tour wins. Thats mainly because they never took tried to take any of the limelight or done PR rubbish or anuthing else.

As for the above quote, bringing money into the sport, Tour of Ireland was cut from 5 to 3 days this years because of 'economic conditions' but the race director has admitted they paid a lot of money to have Lance. See the little problem here.

RTF McFadden says that Bruyneel were negotiating with RadioShack long before the Tour. Well in that case, can anyone blame AC for not having faith in a team of which most would be jumping ship to Lances team as soon as they could. He is also confirming that Lance came back into Astana, knowing he would be setting up his own team and fishing for riders from Astana. He didnt mention that in his comeback plans although he didnt mention he would like to have his own team.

Whatever, Bruyneel comes out of all this looking very childish like Lance at the Tour.
 
pmcg76 said:
Having missed out on all this stuff over the last few days, I just want to add a few observations.

As far back as March/April, a lot of us on here predicted that Bruyneel/Lance would try to screw AC at the Tour, just check some of the older threads. A lot of what Bruyneel has said in the interview is what we were predicting long before the Tour. Gonna claim the high ground on this one.

What is now funny is to hear guys like RaceRalph, ggusta say the events at the Tour turned them against Lance. It was guys(not necessarily those 2) like them who were arguing that we were being cynical and talking rubbish back then, all because we hated Lance.

Personally, I think Bruyneel gets way too much credit for his role in any Tour wins, Jose Echavarrai and Esubio Unzue were never lionised as great managers the way Bruyneel is and they have almost as many Tour wins. Thats mainly because they never took tried to take any of the limelight or done PR rubbish or anuthing else.

As for the above quote, bringing money into the sport, Tour of Ireland was cut from 5 to 3 days this years because of 'economic conditions' but the race director has admitted they paid a lot of money to have Lance. See the little problem here.

RTF McFadden says that Bruyneel were negotiating with RadioShack long before the Tour. Well in that case, can anyone blame AC for not having faith in a team of which most would be jumping ship to Lances team as soon as they could. He is also confirming that Lance came back into Astana, knowing he would be setting up his own team and fishing for riders from Astana. He didnt mention that in his comeback plans although he didnt mention he would like to have his own team.

Whatever, Bruyneel comes out of all this looking very childish like Lance at the Tour.

Why do you love cancer so much?
 

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