Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[Maxiton]

So says Tyler Hamilton, here. Probably few in the peloton know more about who's dirty, who's clean, and what's what in pro cycling, than Tyler Hamilton. TH is naming names and kicking behinds, and he says Cadel is clean.

What do you say? Is there a clean champion, and is it Cadel Evans?

 

[gatete]

I might agree to almost clean? but on 2011, I saw a Cadel I haven't seen before.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

I'm not holding TH's opinion of the current peloton in high esteem; he's just too removed from the game.

My biggest suspicion of doping trace from unreal consistency. Not within a season, like Cadel's 2011, or Wiggns's 2012, but year to year always being on top. I tend to believe much more in riders who go through big ups and downs, before finding a dream season. This is far more typical of clean performance, in my opinion. To me, Cadel's sudden rise is not an indicator that he turned to the darkside, but resultant from applied lessons learned from seasons past, and also that the training cycles of past years came together over the long term.

 

[blackcat]

So says Tyler Hamilton, here. Probably few in the peloton no more about who's dirty, who's clean, and what's what in pro cycling, than Tyler Hamilton. TH is naming names and kicking behinds, and he says Cadel is clean.

What do you say? Is there a clean champion, and is it Cadel Evans?

not clean, but not mendacious, not immoral nor in anyway a bad person. upstanding champion in this sport

 

[datalore]

Interesting. These days, I have a hard time believing that any TdF winner is clean. However, nothing about Cadel's performances seemed suspect to me. If he was doping, he was being pretty conservative. Given what we saw from Sky in 2012, I don't expect to see much from Cadel in the future.

 

[luckyboy]

Wouldn't think Hamilton would know a lot about the cleanliness of the peloton in the past few years.

Also in the Bertagnolli witness statement Ferrari talked about how the Mapei Centre is a joke.

I'd be more surprised if he was clean than dirty.

 

[Ferminal]

If 7th in the Tour makes you a champion, OKAY.

 

[blackcat]

stupid comment from Hamilton.

 

[msjett]

It's a case of nothing would surprise me, I would like to think he is clean but chances are.....

 

[purcell]

Mapei, Telekom, BMC - not indicia of a "clean" rider.

 

[PACONi]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more-sport/tyler-hamilton-says-lance-armstrong-needs-to-come-clean-for-his-own-peace-of-mind/story-e6frfglf-1226497727051

From the above he bases his comments on what Hincapie has told him:

"We were never teammates, you know I raced alongside of him for quite a long time and some of my ex-teammates, George Hincapie being one of them, had told me that Cadel was a super hardworker obviously, but he was clean," Hamilton said.

One of the things made first made me think Armstrong was doped was, how does he keep beating all the others guys who are doped?

How is Cadel so competitive against the known dopers?

Nationalism makes me want to believe he is clean. Experience tells me otherwise.

 

[The Chicken]

No. LMAO.

No.

 

[Ozzie2]

stupid comment from Hamilton.

I dunno

He's entitled to speak positively on someone if he feels so isn't he?

And who's the chick in the photo to bro?

 

[Ferminal]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more-sport/tyler-hamilton-says-lance-armstrong-needs-to-come-clean-for-his-own-peace-of-mind/story-e6frfglf-1226497727051

From the above he bases his comments on what Hincapie has told him:

"We were never teammates, you know I raced alongside of him for quite a long time and some of my ex-teammates, George Hincapie being one of them, had told me that Cadel was a super hardworker obviously, but he was clean," Hamilton said.

George also said, that in the Les Essarts TTT, Evans was pulling stronger than anyone he's ever ridden with.

 

[PACONi]

George also said, that in the Les Essarts TTT, Evans was pulling stronger than anyone he's ever ridden with.

Which George? The doped one or the 'clean' one?

TBH, I wasn't really commenting on the validity of the statement by TH. I had read it a day or two ago, and at the time, thought 'how would he know?' My post was to fill in the gap of how TH came to the belief that Evans is clean.

Is GH believable? TBH it probably depends on the topic. What's come out in the reasoned decision hasn't improved my opinion of GH as a person.

 

[Ferminal]

Which George? The doped one or the 'clean' one?

TBH, I wasn't really commenting on the validity of the statement by TH. I had read it a day or two ago, and at the time, thought 'how would he know?' My post was to fill in the gap of how TH came to the belief that Evans is clean.

Is GH believable? TBH it probably depends on the topic. What's come out in the reasoned decision hasn't improved my opinion of GH as a person.

I'm not sure there was ever a clean George! He lied for two decades, what he says is more or less worthless, to me.

 

[PACONi]

I'm not sure there was ever a clean George! He lied for two decades, what he says is more or less worthless, to me.

Agreed. I don't believe he stopped in 06 of his own free will after getting away with it for so long. A guy who can abuse an ex-teammates wife for being anti doping doesn't self reform IMO.
So it would be natural for him to protect his current teammates as well.

I would like to know. Did GH tell TH that Evans was clean before or after he knew that TH was going to do a tell all?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I would love for Cadel to be clean.

If GL cannot keep up with his contemporaries back in the day with a higher VO2max, how does Cadel beat his contemporaries - given they are still doping, with a lower VO2max?

Heart says, I wish. Logic says no. Was a painful realisation.

 

[Gregga]

I would love for Cadel to be clean.

If GL cannot keep up with his contemporaries back in the day with a higher VO2max, how does Cadel beat his contemporaries - given they are still doping, with a lower VO2max?

Heart says, I wish. Logic says no. Was a painful realisation.

Just impossible Cadel was clean in 2007, he was too close to Contador for that, was he clean he wouldn't have been able to challenge him in the third week.
Maybe cleaner in 2011, but doping just in order not to collapse in the third week, as many other riders IMHO.

"From performance doping to recovery doping", in french http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/dossierdefond/2012-06-05-cyclisme-dopage.htm

 

[ElChingon]

Unless Hamilton has some inside direct info on team BMC and Cadel, I'd take anyone here in the clinic's word as well as to who's really clean as well

USPS info, yes Hamilton gets the nod, BMC/Cadel I don't think he knows everything in that sector of the world, I'm sure he has heard rumors just like us.

 

[Jonathan]

"Clean" might for Hamilton mean something different from "never used any banned substance whatsoever". Perhaps in Hamilton's definition, Indurain was "clean". There is also the common expression " I did not take doping, just something to help recover." The difference would lie not only in the amount taken, but also in the approach that is used in the application; a scientific Ferrari-like program designed to maximise the effect on performance while not being detectable vs. a few substances helping a rider survive the race, or six days, or whatever. Many riders have acknowledged such degrees of doping.

 

[sittingbison]

I would love for Cadel to be clean.

If GL cannot keep up with his contemporaries back in the day with a higher VO2max, how does Cadel beat his contemporaries - given they are still doping, with a lower VO2max?

Heart says, I wish. Logic says no. Was a painful realisation.

could one possibility be they were really juiced to the eyeballs on straight EPO back in the day?

Lets do a DW and look at some historical Grand Tour results:
2005 8th (actually 1st - beaten by Armstrong, Basso, Ullrich, Mancebo, Vino, Levi, Rasmussen - with Floyd, Oscar and Moreau behind)
2006 5th (actually 2nd - beaten by Floyd, Oscar, Kloden, Sastre)
2007 2nd (actually 1st - beaten by AC, with Levi, Sastre, Zubeldia, Valverde, Kirchen, Popo, Astarloza, Oscar behind) (4th Veulta)
2008 2nd (Kohl, Menchov, CVV, Frank, Sami Sanchez, Kirchen Valverde, Valjevec behind)
2009 30th (crashed?) (3rd Veulta)
2010 26th (blew up) (5th Giro)
2011 1st (Andy, Frank, Voeckler, Sami Sanchez, Cunego, Basso, TommyD, Peraud, Rolland behind)
2012 7th no comment this is not a Sky thread

If we apply the same standards to Cadel that we apply to wiggo, it doesnt look promising. The same argument used against Lance when there was not much else, this sole argument. How can he compete against dopers? Which is what, anecdotal? circumstantial?

BTW thats a truly remakable palmares. Even 2009 and 2010 TdFs are offset by the excellent results in Giro and Veulta.

EDIT: garlic ho suggested the ones in green are dopers as well by clinic standard, just not busted yet

 

[Ferminal]

Don't forget getting dropped alongside Frigo on Passo Coe.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Don't forget getting dropped alongside Frigo on Passo Coe.

Evans for me was believable because he had bad days. I don't recall him ever having a bad day in TdF 2011.

Is there a difference between "pan y agua" and "clean"?

 

[sittingbison]

and look at the list of top ten riders he beat in 2011. None of the usual suspects from previous years