Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[goggalor]

Are we talking of the Cadel Evans who worked with Dr. Michelle Ferrari?
Hell, Ferrari even writes about it on his homepage.
Are we talking about the Cadel Evans that was managed by Tony Rominger, one of the most vicious EPO abusers in history?
Guys don't foo yourself, Evans was heavily on the juice for good parts of his career.

Evans met with Ferrari through Rominger in the summer of 2000, to test if he was capable of good things on the road. That's all we know him "working with" Ferrari. Also, Evans didn't do particularly well in the 2000 olympics, only finishing 7th after winning two World Cups in a row. He had Also Sasso as his coach from 2002. I find it very unlikely Ferrari would name one of his actual "patients".

That said, I think this story is mainly Hamilton not wanting to accuse random riders of doping. He's being interviewed by Australian TV and they're asking if their champion is clean, it's pretty easy for Tyler to say he hasn't heard of anything that says otherwise. But at the same time, I think there are riders in the peloton who are considered relatively "clean" by the others (like Sastre), and this isn't the first indication that Evans may be among that group.

 

[The Exorcist]

Really, who knows if Evans is clean or not?

Have lost count of the amount of riders, and athletes generally, who say they're innocent & then get done for doping

Evans is one of the most naturally gifted cyclists riding today, he can also suffer, and there hasn't been linked to doping like Contador etc, but he has won the TdF amongst dopers and that's always going to raise questions.

As for Hamilton, if he hasn't seen Evans dope then there's no way he's going to say Evans is a doper on national television - the next question would be "how do you know?" "did you see him?" Potential defamation right there

 

[hrotha]

As for Hamilton, if he hasn't seen Evans dope then there's no way he's going to say Evans is a doper on national television - the next question would be "how do you know?" "did you see him?" Potential defamation right there

He could simply have said "I don't know, but very few people were clean at the time" or something along those lines. Even just "I don't know". Why would he lie to cover for someone he thought or knew was a doper at this point?

 

[Cookster15]

Another thing about Cadel that I'm not sure has been mentioned on this thread is his tendency to suck wheels - at least before his Worlds win at Mendrisio in 2009.

Until his Worlds win he copped a lot of flak for being a wheel sucker. Anyone who’s raced a bike knows you do what you can. People don't attack because it looks good on TV or to please spectators, they attack because they can and the race situation allows it.

I think Cadel's lack of attacking may have been a sign of his relative cleanliness and he was hanging on for dear life against dopers. The introduction of the Bio Passport coincided with Cadel's worlds win in 2009 and his newfound attacking style. Perhaps the competition slowed a little since then allowing Cadel some more attacking freedom. After all everyone was saying they were climbing slower in 2011 and 2010 AC was not 2009 AC.

 

[airstream]

Of course not. I admit that Evans and Sastre could ride in a cleaner than others way, but all points based on their allegedly clean racing are probably explained by so called sufferer's image - I don't know - or lack of talent as one might think. Though, they are very very talented riders in fact.

 

[Ferminal]

Revised Victories

2001:

Brixia Tour Stagewin
Japan Cup

2002:

Coppi e Bartali stagewin
Romandie (+ stagewin)
Giro (+ many stagewins)

2005:

Paris-Nice (+2 stagewins)
L-B-L
Tour de France (+ many stagewins)
Deutschland Tour (+ stages + mountains)

2006:

Pais Vasco (+ stagewin)
Romandie Stagewin (+ points)
Suisse Stagewin
Tour Stagewin
Tour of Pologne

2007:

Romandie (+ stagewin)
Dauphine (+ stagewins + points)
Tour (+ stagewins)
Vuelta Stagewin
Worlds RR
Emilia

2008:

Pais Vasco (+ stagewin)
Fleche Wallone
L-B-L
Dauphine (+ stagewin + points)
Tour Stagewin

2009:

Coppi e Bartali (+ stagewin)
Pais Vasco Stagewin
Dauphine

2010:

Tirreno-Adriatico
L-B-L
Giro Stagewins

2011:

T-A Stagewin
Romandie Stagewin
Tour Stagewins

2012:

Tour Stagewin

 

[The Exorcist]

He could simply have said "I don't know, but very few people were clean at the time" or something along those lines. Even just "I don't know". Why would he lie to cover for someone he thought or knew was a doper at this point?

not sure what you mean by Hamilton lying, my point is that if he has never seen Evans dope then he's not going to say he's a doper, why would he? He's never trained with Evans.

If he goes on to say that he doesn't know, then he's suggesting Evans is a doper.

All he's saying is that he hasn't heard anything bad about Evans from anyone else and that he has a clean reputation. Nothing more, nothing less. You could interpret that as him saying "I don't know, but other people have told me he's clean'

Now, does that mean Evans is clean? No, of course not. On the other hand, it doesn't mean Evans is dirty.

Quite simply, we don't know if Evans is clean or dirty. Many athletes have said they're clean who turn out to be dirty. I'd love to think Evan's is clean, and he may well be, but can anyone seriously be sure?

He's won the TdF - look at the last 5 winners: Armstrong, Landis, Contador, Evans, Wiggins, Sastre. Half have tested positive.

 

[Cookster15]

But at the same time, I think there are riders in the peloton who are considered relatively "clean" by the others (like Sastre), and this isn't the first indication that Evans may be among that group.

I know this is a thread about Cadel Evans but this Cyclingnews forum consensus that Sastre was clean in 2008 is really too much. Sastre's performance in the final TT said otherwise not to mention riding for Mr Riis's team.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Evans met with Ferrari through Rominger in the summer of 2000, to test if he was capable of good things on the road. That's all we know him "working with" Ferrari. Also, Evans didn't do particularly well in the 2000 olympics, only finishing 7th after winning two World Cups in a row.

If the head of the AIS tested you between 1995 (18) and 1999 (22) and told you that you had the highest VO2max ever recorded at the AIS, with X W/kg, why would you then need to go to Ferrari to be tested to find out if you were capable of doing good things on the road.

Keeping in mind, Evans was already one of the best MTBers going around.

1. AIS had no clue about the power of other road riders in Europe to say conclusively whether Evans would be any good - even though AIS scholarship holders had been training and racing in Europe for some years now.
2. You didn't believe the head of the AIS or their testing.
3. You do whatever your manager suggests.

He had Also Sasso as his coach from 2002. I find it very unlikely Ferrari would name one of his actual "patients".

Aldo Sassi was there to help Conconi prepare Moser for the hour, along with Ferrari, Cecchini and others. They were assistants of Conconi's in Ferrara. eg: http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/2/16...on-the-causes-of-doping-francesco-conconi-and

 

[Ferminal]

I know this is a thread about Cadel Evans but this Cyclingnews forum consensus that Sastre was clean in 2008 is really too much. Sastre's performance in the final TT said otherwise not to mention riding for Mr Riis's team.

I'm not sure there is a consensus that Sastre is clean, but if your starting point is that Evans is clean, ergo, Sastre and others like Samu should also be considered clean.

For the record, I do not consider Sastre clean

 

[hrotha]

not sure what you mean by Hamilton lying, my point is that if he has never seen Evans dope then he's not going to say he's a doper, why would he? He's never trained with Evans.

If he goes on to say that he doesn't know, then he's suggesting Evans is a doper.

If Hamilton doesn't think Evans is clean, but still went on to say he does think Evans is clean, then he's lying. As I said, there's ways to dodge the question if he's not comfortable with answering it without resorting to outright lies. The fact that he did answer the way he did is IMO a good sign for Evans. Not definitive by any means, but a small piece of the puzzle none the less.

 

[python]

of all the pundits, (admit it, you clueless clinicians ) my avatar is the best informed...

she once said, “I couldn’t think of anyone, and I know I might seem biased on this, more deserving of the win. Right back to his early days he’s always been the real deal. I had insight into his results for a few years and I just feel that there has never been an issue or a whiff of suspicion with Cadel.”

because i strongly feel, a hero must earn his/her place in my avatar space, i put anne through a grill

P. hey anne, did you know that a half of one BB can fool your bio-passport could cadel benefit from the fact?

A. that's after i left, they were using full units throughout his carrier

P. how do you know ?

A. ashenden told me that all the passport methodology was based on administering and detecting one or two full BBs.

P. did he also tell you how unhappy he was about the number of the passport tests ? could cadel benefit from the fact ?

A. again, that's after my time.

P. Hey anne, did you know that 1000 epo units straight into the vein after 10 pm are undetectable in the morning ?

A. how could i if mike himself leaned about this creepy tactic in 2010 from floyd

P. and what about 500 epo units in the vein after 10 pm thwarting your bio-passport reticulocyctes ?

A. again, i could not know more than mike...he learned this only in 2010...

i warned anne that she could be suspended from my avatar box for ignorance

 

[ebandit]

cadel

ok i have virtually zero faith in successful gc riders but i have even less faith in cadel being clean than brad

2011 tour looked like route that gave cadel little chance then................

cadel seems to escape attention by being quiet..............other riders are criticised for not speaking out more against drug use

 

[Benotti69]

I suspect Evans of doping.

 

[TheEnoculator]

The only way I'll believe anyone, not just Cadel, is clean is:

if one or several active riders admit to doping and they come out and say another active rider whom they ride with on the same team isn't doping, like what happened with Moncoutié.

The reason I believe that is because a dirty rider gains nothing by coming out to say another fellow teammate refuses to dope and is clean. So to go through the trouble to say a teammate is clean, to me, that's enough credibility.

 

[noddy69]

Cant believe he has not when you look at his ability in the mountains and his TT ability over the years.

Question though on who may be clean. Take the likes of Nicholas Roche, good enough in the mountains but by no means excellent at the really hard stuff, His TT ability is quite a bit off from the top guys. Could he be considered clean....Im not putting this too well, can an ability to climb with the best and then power away in TT be correlated with drug taking in a scientific manner .

Dan Martin is another who can climb with the best yet TT falls away.
Evans,contador,Lance etc etc climb then transfer the power to the flat, something strikes me as wrong about it but I havent the background to know.

 

[cineteq]

Can anybody remind me what was that GT where he sort of suggested (innuendo) 'if these guys are doping how can I do anything'?

 

[Ozzie2]

My thought is if he was then he would have had more stellar stage results during the tour

Then he would have really opened up the program and had as good a, or even better 2012

He couldnt compete in 2012

We know he was good from day 1

Always consistent the bridesmade

No massive out of the blue improvements

won under all came together circumstances

too stuffed to come back hard in 2012

The health aspect of his lifestyle doesnt prove anything, but it would be surprising you'd think.

I would be sure he injects. Vitamins, recovery and all that

I doubt he'd be prepared to do the stuff that does unknown damage and is plain cheating

maybe he was and he got off it in 2012, maybe thats why 2012 was such a dud of a year for him?

 

[Cookster15]

Can anybody remind me what was that GT where he sort of suggested (innuendo) 'if these guys are doping how can I do anything'?

Maybe 2005 TDF? In 2005 I recall he said he was one or two levels below Lance, Basso, Ulrich, Landis and Leipheimer in the mountains. I don't recall him saying doping specifically but do recall the mention of 'I'm a few levels below'.

 

[Cookster15]

maybe thats why 2012 was such a dud of a year for him?

In 2012 he had sinus infections all season. It effected his preparation and was found out at the Tour.

 

[Ferminal]

Cant believe he has not when you look at his ability in the mountains and his TT ability over the years.

Question though on who may be clean. Take the likes of Nicholas Roche, good enough in the mountains but by no means excellent at the really hard stuff, His TT ability is quite a bit off from the top guys. Could he be considered clean....Im not putting this too well, can an ability to climb with the best and then power away in TT be correlated with drug taking in a scientific manner .

Dan Martin is another who can climb with the best yet TT falls away.
Evans,contador,Lance etc etc climb then transfer the power to the flat, something strikes me as wrong about it but I havent the background to know.

Most of that is about being poor TT'ers than anything else.

i.e. Rodriguez can match it with Contador climbing, but not in a TT. Not for a lack of (relative) power or anything which doping can fix, simply because he's a sub-par TT'er.

 

[movingtarget]

ok i have virtually zero faith in successful gc riders but i have even less faith in cadel being clean than brad

2011 tour looked like route that gave cadel little chance then................

cadel seems to escape attention by being quiet..............other riders are criticised for not speaking out more against drug use

I disagree. Evans had the best team he ever had riding with him. The route suited him with not many hard mountain stages. The race played into his hands. The Schlecks were too tentative with their attacks until Schleck's epic breakaway on Galibier. The many medium hilly stages suited Evans down to the ground. The falls decimated the GC riders in the first week. Contador was backing up after the Giro. He was tired and also had a knee problem. Neither of the Schlecks are good TT riders and they were Evan's main adversaries after it was clear that Contador was not going to do it. Evans rode a very clever race and had faith in his ability to overhaul Schleck in the final TT. Andy had cooked himself on Galibier and nothing left to attack Cadel with on the Alpe. Everything worked for Evans. All he had to do it was minimise his losses on Galibier and the Alpe and his earlier form pre Tour showed he was in great shape without injury or illness. Won Tirreno and Romandie and second at Dauphine. Evans rode the race of his life but also had some luck which always counts in three week races. He was overdue for a grand tour win and most people knew it. I see nothing suspicious at all about his victory. He was the most consistent rider for the entire three weeks and it paid off. When it looked like the race was slipping away from him on the Galibier he did what he had to do whereas in the past he would have waited too long and blamed others for not helping. In the end he proved he was more hungry than Andy who realised too late in the race that Evans was the real danger not Contador.

 

[TheEnoculator]

I disagree. Evans had the best team he ever had riding with him. The route suited him with not many hard mountain stages. The race played into his hands. The Schlecks were too tentative with their attacks until Schleck's epic breakaway on Galibier. The many medium hilly stages suited Evans down to the ground. The falls decimated the GC riders in the first week. Contador was backing up after the Giro. He was tired and also had a knee problem. Neither of the Schlecks are good TT riders and they were Evan's main adversaries after it was clear that Contador was not going to do it. Evans rode a very clever race and had faith in his ability to overhaul Schleck in the final TT. Andy had cooked himself on Galibier and nothing left to attack Cadel with on the Alpe. Everything worked for Evans. All he had to do it was minimise his losses on Galibier and the Alpe and his earlier form pre Tour showed he was in great shape without injury or illness. Won Tirreno and Romandie and second at Dauphine. Evans rode the race of his life but also had some luck which always counts in three week races. He was overdue for a grand tour win and most people knew it. I see nothing suspicious at all about his victory. He was the most consistent rider for the entire three weeks and it paid off. When it looked like the race was slipping away from him on the Galibier he did what he had to do whereas in the past he would have waited too long and blamed others for not helping. In the end he proved he was more hungry than Andy who realised too late in the race that Evans was the real danger not Contador.

Contador didn't show anything suspicious in 2010 Tour and still got caught. In fact, he was bad enough that Andy almost beat him.

It doesn't matter if you jumped out in performance or not. It still doesn't mean you didn't dope. That's how bad Cycling has become.

Wake up.

 

[webvan]

I would be sure he injects. Vitamins, recovery and all that

I doubt he'd be prepared to do the stuff that does unknown damage and is plain cheating

+1 - yes I think that like Brad he does stuff which normal people would find "funny", vitamin injections (oops, no needles policy anyone ?), gels, stockings, hyperbaric chambers, etc...but I guess they can't ban everything!

 

[zigmeister]

Sure...clean. Then, he like others (Thor) come down with a mysterious "infection" and lose an entire next season basically after a stellar year in their careers.