California Becomes War of Words

[webbie146]

Horner is going to burn sand into glass

 

[BillytheKid]

Maybe it's Levi's contention that with Horner continuing his tempo after reeling in Hesjedal, it tied Levi's hands, as was stated in the link in the OP's post, he couldn't continue on with Horner without pulling Hesjedal along. I'm assuming Hesjedal has a better sprint than the two of them or at minimum better than Levi, should they all had made it to the finish together. Possibly Levi felt he had the legs to match Horner. Horner's decision to go for his own interests after starting out as Leipheimer's lieutenant was a questionable, rather scandalous, and dastardly brilliant move. It's my guess it was around that moment that Leipheimer decided it was time for him to look into jumping ship, which he did.

Yesterday's stage was a version of Levi's Grand Fondo.
The race begins in Santa Rosa and ends in Santa Rosa...blah..blah... turn in back up into them there hills instead!

Personally, I am glad that Horner stuck it to him last year because he was simply the best rider on the day. Of course, I think it annoys Horner that Leipheimer was starting yesterday and that he influces this race to his advantage. The whole thing is too predictable. Sagan is very good, but there's little in the way to challenge him. The whole idea of a real mix of uphill and flat finishes is lost on the organizers.

 

[benpounder]

I don't really know why Levi was upset last year.

And yet I never got the impression that Leipheimer was upset last year.

After Sierra Road he still had Baldy to go full gas and if Horner dropped, Horner dropped.

He could not drop him so he didn't win. If the better guy happens to be your teammate then that's not all bad.

Leipheimer rode pace up Baldy - hardly a tactic of someone really ****ed off, and more importantly, precisely the tactic consummate team player.

I'm just guessing... but I think Horner likely was a little peeved at Levi getting upset last year. So now we have a little rivalry which is good.

And I'm just guessing that Horner is ticked because Rado Shack is a shell of a former squad with all hopes pinned on Schlecklet winning the upcoming Tour. IOW, Chris is stranded on a squad that can no longer fully support their less than marquee riders in lesser races. (and for a Bruneel team, everything is about the Tour.)

 

[hfer07]

Horner has a big mouth-not really surprised by this

 

[Caruut]

And yet I never got the impression that Leipheimer was upset last year. Leipheimer rode pace up Baldy - hardly a tactic of someone really ****ed off, and more importantly, precisely the tactic consummate team player.

And I'm just guessing that Horner is ticked because Rado Shack is a shell of a former squad with all hopes pinned on Schlecklet winning the upcoming Tour. IOW, Chris is stranded on a squad that can no longer fully support their less than marquee riders in lesser races. (and for a Bruneel team, everything is about the Tour.)

When angry, Levi rides pace.
When calm, Levi rides pace.
In the sun, Levi rides pace.
In the rain, Levi rides pace.
When happy, Levi rides pace.
When sad, Levi rides pace.
In spring, Levi rides pace.
In summer, Levi rides pace.

Levi, by Caruut.

Not meaning to come off overly condescending, just got a bit into trying to write a poetic post about Levi. What I was trying to say is that Levi just doesn't do accelerations. If he could have dropped Horner, he'd have tried it. All an acceleration would have done is put lactic acid into his legs and let Horner drop him again.

RSNT is a much better squad than Radioshack.

 

[benpounder]

When angry, Levi rides pace.
When calm, Levi rides pace.
In the sun, Levi rides pace.
In the rain, Levi rides pace.
When happy, Levi rides pace.
When sad, Levi rides pace.
In spring, Levi rides pace.
In summer, Levi rides pace.

Levi, by Caruut.

Not meaning to come off overly condescending,

Oh, BS.

No, I understand why so many here love to hate Levi - he is a boring pro racer. But while so many love to hate his style, his results speak for themselves. And in the North American pantheon, there have been only two better riders (to date). And there are so many riders of other nationalities that so many here wish to fit the same bill but neither havent, or cant. Deep in the hearts, Levi's lifetime's results would be cherished by 99% of the peloton.

I recognize Levi's flaws, I only wish others would acknowledge theirs.

 

[Caruut]

Oh, BS.

No, I understand why so many here love to hate Levi - he is a boring pro racer. But while so many love to hate his style, his results speak for themselves. And in the North American pantheon, there have been only two better riders (to date). And there are so many riders of other nationalities that so many here wish to fit the same bill but neither havent, or cant. Deep in the hearts, Levi's lifetime's results would be cherished by 99% of the peloton.

I recognize Levi's flaws, I only wish others would acknowledge theirs.

Is it BS though? Levi always rides pace, so you can hardly deduce his emotions at the time from his riding style.

Let's take the peloton to mean the WorldTour teams, which is 18 teams of 30 riders each. That's 540 riders in total, so 99% is roughly just over 543 riders. You reckon there are only 7 riders who don't look at his palmarès and go "Cor, wish I was Levi".

 

[CobbleStoner]

And in the North American pantheon, there have been only two better riders (to date).

???what? only two? so what about John Howard, Andy Hampston, Tyler Hamilton, Alexi Grewal, Steve Bauer & Raul Alcala (both North American...), hell, even that rat Landis, they all are better racers than Levi

 

[TRDean]

???what? only two? so what about John Howard, Andy Hampston, Tyler Hamilton, Alexi Grewal, Steve Bauer & Raul Alcala (both North American...), hell, even that rat Landis, they all are better racers than Levi

LOL...Raul Alcala??? Really....come on, other than Hampsten the others are only OK and not nearly as good as Levi. I hate Levi, but got to give credit where it is due.

Both of these riders are not my cup of tea...so all I can do is laugh at this.

 

[CobbleStoner]

LOL...Raul Alcala??? Really....come on, other than Hampsten the others are only OK and not nearly as good as Levi. I hate Levi, but got to give credit where it is due.

Both of these riders are not my cup of tea...so all I can do is laugh at this.

you must not know who Steve Bauer is, much more than an OK rider, and I would take any one of those on my list (in their prime) over Levi as a teammate, or if I was the DS. Levi has never won a Grand tour, Levi has never won a Classic, Levi has never won an Olympic Gold medal, Levi is a boring TT specialist, Levi isn't always the best teammate. those five reasons right there take him way below #3 for USA, Canada, and Mexico combined all-time. get real

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Horner has a big mouth-not really surprised by this

I'm not really surprised by Leipwhiner being in far better shape than he said he was, either.

 

[benpounder]

Is it BS though?

What is BS is that you were not trying to be condescending, overly or not.

Let's take the peloton to mean the WorldTour teams, which is 18 teams of 30 riders each.

No, let's not. Let us take the peloton as everyone who ever had dreams of cycling glory enough so that they joined a club, raced a few races, and put themselves into hurt just to get better. It constantly surprises me just how different those that comment here are from the general cycling population in terms of which riders are is worthy of scorn. We here are far more a cynical lot.

[my edit] closed quote tags

 

[Anonymous]

And yet I never got the impression that Leipheimer was upset last year. Leipheimer rode pace up Baldy - hardly a tactic of someone really ****ed off, and more importantly, precisely the tactic consummate team player.

And I'm just guessing that Horner is ticked because Rado Shack is a shell of a former squad with all hopes pinned on Schlecklet winning the upcoming Tour. IOW, Chris is stranded on a squad that can no longer fully support their less than marquee riders in lesser races. (and for a Bruneel team, everything is about the Tour.)

Hmmmm. Horner's at least somewhat likely to be a protected rider at the TdF.

I doubt, very seriously, if he's upset by that.

 

[benpounder]

Levi has never won a Grand tour, Levi has never won a Classic, Levi has never won an Olympic Gold medal, Levi is a boring TT specialist...

First, time trials are incredibly boring in and of themselves. To say that Levi is more boring is akin to saying you like to watch green paint dry better than blue paint. More importantly, Levi has stood on the podium in three Grand Tours and at the Olympics - he has won 10 major stage races and has been his national champion in both road and tt. I'm not talking about whether or not you would like him on your team, I'm talking about his accomplishments.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

10 major stages races? LOL

 

[TRDean]

you must not know who Steve Bauer is, much more than an OK rider, and I would take any one of those on my list (in their prime) over Levi as a teammate, or if I was the DS. Levi has never won a Grand tour, Levi has never won a Classic, Levi has never won an Olympic Gold medal, Levi is a boring TT specialist, Levi isn't always the best teammate. those five reasons right there take him way below #3 for USA, Canada, and Mexico combined all-time. get real

actually I do know who Steve Bauer is...and he was great...You must know Levi personally eh? How do you know what kind of teammate he is? Personal grudge...I'm just saying give credit where it is due. Levi is at least as good as Bauer was...a step below Hampsten...the rest of your list don't cut it. Grewal winning the gold medal was nice...but no staying power. Funny, there are other North American riders like LeMond, Boyer, heck even Phinney the elder who are better than Grewal or Howard or Alcala. By the way...there are a lot of races that are not world championships or grand tours!

Please tell us how you know so well what kind of teammate Levi is?

 

[Caruut]

What is BS is that you were not trying to be condescending, overly or not.

No, let's not. Let us take the peloton as everyone who ever had dreams of cycling glory enough so that they joined a club, raced a few races, and put themselves into hurt just to get better. It constantly surprises me just how different those that comment here are from the general cycling population in terms of which riders are is worthy of scorn. We here are far more a cynical lot.

[my edit] closed quote tags

I didn't set out to be condescending. I was trying to illustrate my point in an off the wall manner, and was worried it might come across that way, so I tried to say that that wasn't intended.

Since when has "the peloton" been taken to mean everyone who has ever cycled competitively? That's sort of a pointless argument - of course club riders wish they'd won some pro races. While they make fun of him for being a bit rubbish, most men in England dreamed of having a chance, like Emile Heskey, to wear the England shirt. Or, for an American reference, while Brock Huard and Ron Dayne are maligned for having never made it as pros, millions would love to have had college careers like them.

Levi's palmarès is okay, I suppose, but he's never won an event which top riders actually peak for. I still don't see why I should like him based on his palmarès though, and if I were to, there are many riders more worthy of my support.

 

[BillytheKid]

And yet I never got the impression that Leipheimer was upset last year. Leipheimer rode pace up Baldy - hardly a tactic of someone really ****ed off, and more importantly, precisely the tactic consummate team player.

And I'm just guessing that Horner is ticked because Rado Shack is a shell of a former squad with all hopes pinned on Schlecklet winning the upcoming Tour. IOW, Chris is stranded on a squad that can no longer fully support their less than marquee riders in lesser races. (and for a Bruneel team, everything is about the Tour.)

Here's some Levi self-promotion.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bikemonkey/the-levi-effect-a-documentary-about-levi-leipheime

This is the latest trailer of a documentary on him which has evolved from last years version ...I remember that one did have him on the upset side over the Cali in more than a few clips. That's all dissapeared from this piece. There's really nothing wrong with self promotion and if it aids the sport, so much the better. But there's some money behind this effort obviously and in the end money to be made.

So Horner's a bit miffed about the start in Santa Rosa, not even getting an invite to last years pre-race press conference, and maybe no respect at the start this year as the champ. To bad the NBC Sports interview is not available to see.

You seldom see him peeved, but so far he's called it like it is... stay at the front and let Liqui work of Sagan. Damage control throught the time-trial. Try to win it on Mt. Baldy. Reading between the lines, that's saying boring race, maybe I have outside chance on the one real climb.

 

[Don Johnson]

First, time trials are incredibly boring in and of themselves. To say that Levi is more boring is akin to saying you like to watch green paint dry better than blue paint. More importantly, Levi has stood on the podium in three Grand Tours and at the Olympics - he has won 10 major stage races and has been his national champion in both road and tt. I'm not talking about whether or not you would like him on your team, I'm talking about his accomplishments.

Levi is impressive. I venture to say he is the greatest American cyclist, after Lance, LeMond, Hampsten, Hamilton, Major Taylor, Landis, not necessarily in that order.
He may not be the most scintillating cyclist or person, but anyone with a good understanding of cycling should be able to appreciate Levi the athlete.

To measure his strengths in the GTs, and do well in the TT is just awesome.
Like Anquentil.

Also to measure in Levis' palmares it is important to factor PED use in the peloton, as that skews results.

 

[joe1265]

Levi and OPQS bluff one way, Horner calls it for what it is. Sagan wins everything. the race is shaping up nicely.

 

[Caruut]

Levi is impressive. I venture to say he is the greatest American cyclist, after Lance, LeMond, Hampsten, Hamilton, Major Taylor, Landis, not necessarily in that order.
He may not be the most scintillating cyclist or person, but anyone with a good understanding of cycling should be able to appreciate Levi the athlete.

To measure his strengths in the GTs, and do well in the TT is just awesome.
Like Anquentil.

Also to measure in Levis' palmares it is important to factor PED use in the peloton, as that skews results.

Not sure you Americans understand that no-one else cares about him being the 8th greatest American cyclist ever. Appreciate Levi the athlete? Why? He's good at TTing and riding pace up climbs. Better than I will ever be. He is not really in the same league as the best though. Nothing he does is what makes sport great, to me.

How different would Levi's palmarès be if you factor in PED use. I think there would be some change - all the dirty Euros taking results away from clean-as-a-whistle Levi, veteran of US Postal, Rabobank, Gerolsteiner, Discovery, Astana, Radioshack and OPQS. Don't want to go too clinic, but you can't just assert that he's definitely clean.

 

[BillytheKid]

Levi and OPQS bluff one way, Horner calls it for what it is. Sagan wins everything. the race is shaping up nicely.

Yep. Calls it good: http://video.bicycling.com/video/Chris-Horner-Bicycling-coms-D-3

Levi here: http://video.bicycling.com/video/Levi-Leipheimer-Talks-About-His

 

[BroDeal]

Not sure you Americans understand that no-one else cares about him being the 8th greatest American cyclist ever. Appreciate Levi the athlete? Why? He's good at TTing and riding pace up climbs. Better than I will ever be. He is not really in the same league as the best though. Nothing he does is what makes sport great, to me.

How different would Levi's palmarès be if you factor in PED use. I think there would be some change - all the dirty Euros taking results away from clean-as-a-whistle Levi, veteran of US Postal, Rabobank, Gerolsteiner, Discovery, Astana, Radioshack and OPQS. Don't want to go too clinic, but you can't just assert that he's definitely clean.

Leipheimer is so pathetic that he had to dope as an amateur. Fact.

In a mythical clean sport, Leipheimer would be struggling to keep pace in crits held in industrial parks. So let's not go down the path of claiming that Leipheimer was robbed of results. That is laughable.

Horner, on the other hand, is the real deal, the most talented bike racer to come out of America since Lemond and Hampsten.

 

[BillytheKid]

Leipheimer is so pathetic that he had to dope as an amateur. Fact.

In a mythical clean sport, Leipheimer would be struggling to keep pace in crits held in industrial parks. So let's not go down the path of claiming that Leipheimer was robbed of results. That is laughable.

Horner, on the other hand, is the real deal, the most talented bike racer to come out of America since Lemond and Hampsten.

Don't hold back there son.

 

[Don Johnson]

Not sure you Americans understand that no-one else cares about him being the 8th greatest American cyclist ever. Appreciate Levi the athlete? Why? He's good at TTing and riding pace up climbs. Better than I will ever be. He is not really in the same league as the best though. Nothing he does is what makes sport great, to me.

How different would Levi's palmarès be if you factor in PED use. I think there would be some change - all the dirty Euros taking results away from clean-as-a-whistle Levi, veteran of US Postal, Rabobank, Gerolsteiner, Discovery, Astana, Radioshack and OPQS. Don't want to go too clinic, but you can't just assert that he's definitely clean.

I don't think you can stop there, fill in the blanks on who gives a believable performance.
All I am saying is Levi has great results, or non results, skewed as they may be, either way.

Remember also the teams Chris has ridden for also.

I think someone who rides 20th to 10th place is likely cleaner in the tour, however Saunier Duval....hmmmm...