Can Contador just shut up and go away?

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Jul 6, 2010
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flicker said:
I agree, cycling should be more of a boot camp compared to what, kite surfing at a Dutch Carribean Island?

I think a camp like Liquigas in the snow at alLtiude makes way more sense.

I know that the band playing while the boys learn agility skills and practice their after retirement athletic skills is part of Riis idea OF A JOKE AND YES BJARNE IT IS A JOKE.
Once again flicker, my questionably sane little muse, speaks reason.

I fear that we may both be tied to the 'old school' of bike racing, where for generations it was a nice escape for the genetically gifted to escape the coal mine or the shoe factory.

Now the 'sport' and its attending followers want to see the finer points of being rich and famous.

A training camp? F*ck training. The top guys have enough money to buy their own island, why not accomodate their whims? The grunts making less than a teacher? Well, they'll like the time in the sun as well. And it doesn't really matter because they're expendable. We can get them jacked on a good enough program that they PROBABLY won't get popped, and if they happen to get a positive (since the UCI really wants to ignore the big guns), it's good PR for 'clean cycling' and really didn't cost the team too much. They're replaceable, and only cost a little bit...

Sad, sad, sad...

THIS is the new era of cycling.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Berzin said:
Flicker, if I invited you to one of my "training camps" in the Dominican Republic or Colombia you'd come back more focused than ever, and guaranteed you'd forget all about your useless life as a troll.
Not to mention some good stories, and possibly some life-altering cholera...

Or dysentry, in the case of Columbia, enjoy...
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Berzin said:
Flicker, if I invited you to one of my "training camps" in the Dominican Republic or Colombia you'd come back more focused than ever, and guaranteed you'd forget all about your useless life as a troll.
I will come only if the training clamp includes bullwhip, cat-o-nine-tails, electric cattle prod, heavy steel frames with fixed gears, tetse flies, eppervescent non alcoholic beers, cross dressing lumberjacks, and the all important more cow-bell.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Berzin said:
Flicker, if I invited you to one of my "training camps" in the Dominican Republic or Colombia you'd come back more focused than ever, and guaranteed you'd forget all about your useless life as a troll.
How come Bjarne can't have a training camp in Haiti? Now that would be a tough place for a training camp. Also they could use the PR from CN as a nice European winter destination.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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flicker said:
I will come only if the training clamp includes bullwhip, cat-o-nine-tails, electric cattle prod, heavy steel frames with fixed gears, tetse flies, eppervescent non alcoholic beers, cross dressing lumberjacks, and the all important more cow-bell.
What happened to ever-present rainbows and unicorns?

I always imagined a happy-place of fresh cookies and leprechauns... I have to admit I'm a little saddened with your newly revealed proclivity for domination.

Where's the happy man-love of adoration?
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
What happened to ever-present rainbows and unicorns?

I always imagined a happy-place of fresh cookies and leprechauns... I have to admit I'm a little saddened with your newly revealed proclivity for domination.

Where's the happy man-love of adoration?
Its all over all is lost. As the U-Boat captains of WWII quoted, "The Happy Days are over" Kaput.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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NO TIME FOR ARMSTRONG MAN-LOVE DEPTH CHARGES ARE BEING LAUNCHED FROM THE DESTROYER, dive dive.
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
I can intimately understand 'team-building', but I'm not sure about the value of half-surfing and rocking out to an accordian.

Whatever happen to the Polish (the country, not the innane poster) model of running through the woods in the snow and chopping down trees for a winter camp?

All I'm saying is that based on the current top riders' salaries, maybe they need to be exposed to a little grunt-work to gain perspective (and to build a bond) with the guys who are going to HAVE to throw it down and give up their results potential for the team leader.

Oh yeah, I forgot this was the new culture of pro cycling. Forget the blue-collar nature of what it was, now we have to make sure the millionaire pansies get a nice holiday at their 'training camp' and all in the name of 'team building'.

What in the hell is the point of this? Here are your teammates, let's go have some fun... And, apparently, we're supposed to find this interesting?

If even half of the cycling media paid half the interest in doping that they do on these pointless 'camps' we might be getting somewhere.

Oh, wait... I forgot that at actually digging for a story (and stepping on the golden gooses' toes) isn't nearly as pleasant as getting an 'invite' to report on this new era of 'training camp'.

Boo on the doping culture in cycling. And another Boo on this being perceived as being important news.

What a bunch of spoiled brats...
...talk about whining....;)

Maybe this is a kinder, gentler Riis after the turmoil of this past summer with Andy, Stuart and Fabian. One must assimilate, adapt or perish.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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flicker said:
Its all over all is lost. As the U-Boat captains of WWII quoted, "The Happy Days are over" Kaput.
But what about the children...

I only couch that comment in those terms as it seems to be a media proclivity in your country. But really, what about the children?

I want to bring you back to the discourse, flicker. Think about the children.

Think of being a young rider with talent. Someone who can do something better than those around you. How big do you want 'those around you' to become? How about ALL of them? That's the dream...

Come back flicker, my dear. My muse, my inspiration for exculpation. Think of all the rainbows and unicorns the children could see.

Think of what a clean rider could do in a clean peloton. That's the fight I want to see. Sorry it doesn't include bondage...
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Angliru said:
...talk about whining....;)

Maybe this is a kinder, gentler Riis after the turmoil of this past summer with Andy, Stuart and Fabian. One must assimilate, adapt or perish.
Does the bolded apply to me or the Saxo boys?

As for me - I won't assimilate doping, won't adapt to the doping culture, and refuse to shut up (that being the perishing option).

Whatever Riis's motivations for the camp are... Dirty is what dirty does...
 
May 14, 2009
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To the original author of this thread, I say yes, and bravo.

I have given Riis a pass on doping matters until now because of his confession, but his support for Contador quite appalls me. Contrast that with the reaction of anti-doping team to such a positive test, and it's pretty telling.
 
GoGarmin said:
To the original author of this thread, I say yes, and bravo.

I have given Riis a pass on doping matters until now because of his confession, but his support for Contador quite appalls me. Contrast that with the reaction of anti-doping team to such a positive test, and it's pretty telling.
What other anti-doping teams??? Euskaltel......no way they backed Mikel Astaloza. Liquigas.......backed Pellizotti and Basso. Ag2r.........Valjavec. IMO the teams are par of the problem....well more specifically the people behind the teams
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
Does the bolded apply to me or the Saxo boys?

As for me - I won't assimilate doping, won't adapt to the doping culture, and refuse to shut up (that being the perishing option).

Whatever Riis's motivations for the camp are... Dirty is what dirty does...
It applies to Riis adopting a new train of thought for his new cast of riders.
It is pretty much a different team from last year with the exception of a few riders. What worked in the past may not work now. Many a coach/manager/ds
in sport has worn out their welcome, with their message no longer being heard by refusing to change.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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I resent seeing Contador on a surfboard, kite surfing and out training with the team. Some people here might hate me because I am an Armstrong fan but that is just my opinion. Contador is ready to take a fall, Armstrong too and these guys do not need to be playing about. Bjarne needs to put on his serious face, the happy times are over.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Angliru said:
It applies to Riis adopting a new train of thought for his new cast of riders.
It is pretty much a different team from last year with the exception of a few riders. What worked in the past may not work now. Many a coach/manager/ds
in sport has worn out their welcome
, with their message no longer being heard by refusing to change.
Is that one for Riis? Are his 'old' riders looking for greener (and more complicit) pastures?

If you're looking for change via team structure, you may be waiting a long time...

Unfortunately, we're forced to look at the governing bodies for change. Based on the last few decades, that change may be a long time coming. Nobody in the governing spheres seems to want that sort of change, so it may be up to the larger (more fans than riders) numbers to try to effect change.

I'm still not sold that that is what 'the people' want. Everyone wants a hero, as tragic as that may turn out to be...
 
flicker said:
I will come only if the training clamp includes bullwhip, cat-o-nine-tails, electric cattle prod, heavy steel frames with fixed gears, tetse flies, eppervescent non alcoholic beers, cross dressing lumberjacks, and the all important more cow-bell.
Flicker, so you are an S&M bondage queen, and a high-maintenance one at that.

I can get you the cow bell. I can even get you a cow, but I can't guarantee that it'll be clenbutarol-free.

The rest of the stuff on our list you're going to have to do without.

But if all that apparatus is what it takes for you to have a good time, maybe you should stay home.


JMBeaushrimp said:
Not to mention some good stories, and possibly some life-altering cholera...

Or dysentry, in the case of Columbia, enjoy...
I see some of my Cycling News chicken littles don't do much traveling.

No wonder things get so testy in the clinic. What do you guys do to blow off steam?
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Berzin said:
Flicker, so you are an S&M bondage queen, and a high-maintenance one at that.

I can get you the cow bell. I can even get you a cow, but I can't guarantee that it'll be clenbutarol-free.

The rest of the stuff on our list you're going to have to do without.

But if all that apparatus is what it takes for you to have a good time, maybe you should stay home.


http://www.astana.lu/gallery.php?action=visu&gal_id=113
The lower row block of 4 are my style. Of course coming from San Francisco the whole world comes to us. The Astana camp looks more like my style.
I see some of my Cycling News chicken littles don't do much traveling.

No wonder things get so testy in the clinic. What do you guys do to blow off steam?
Team Astan a wahoo.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Berzin said:
Nor does it matter that the Spanish beef industry is up in arms over their product
getting slagged even though it's an industry where drugs are used in just an unethical manner as in cycling.
OK, I know a little about the beef industry, as my family has been in that business for over 40 years.
All of your support for AC is so misguided if you knew how utterly impossible it would be for his story to be true.

First of all to counter your statement, drugs are not used unethically in the beef industry. Let me point to AC's fairy tale as an example.

Clenbuterol does not add weight to cattle, in studies it was shown to cause a drastic reduction in fat with a miniscule gain in muscle. Cattle treated with this drug would have to stay on feed much longer meaning a higher cost per day for less money at point of sale. So it would not be used for profitability.
Next, because of the short life of the drug it would have to have been injected just before slaughter, again there would be no benefit to giving a drug at this time, especially one with the intention of changing the vody compostion. You cannot change fat to muscle in the last hour of life, that is ridiculous again you would just be removing profit. However with the stringent point of origin tracking in Spain not just for the carcass but with the individual cuts of meat, you could lose your herd and your living very easily. For what end would you take this risk? LESS money? this is why the beef industry is outraged they were thrown under the bus by adesperate little man for something they know is impossible in Spain.
Additionally the drug would remain in the liver and not reach the meat itself, so it is impossible to get the drug by eating a steak in the manner & situation put forth by Mr Contador.

There has been no evidence of Clenbuterol contamination outside of third world countries with primitive testing & conditions. If you had a sick cow in Mexico from poor conditions you might shoot it full of Clenbuterol to try & keep it from dying before it is processed. If it died, i am sure it would be processed there anyway and no one is going to test the meat. So in a situation like that, where people consume a sick cow that died shortly after being injected AND those people ate the liver contamination is plausible.

But that situation is not the one described by Alberto and again in no way shape or form is his alibi based in reality or have any degree of plausability.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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runninboy said:
OK, I know a little about the beef industry, as my family has been in that business for over 40 years.
All of your support for AC is so misguided if you knew how utterly impossible it would be for his story to be true.

First of all to counter your statement, drugs are not used unethically in the beef industry. Let me point to AC's fairy tale as an example.

Clenbuterol does not add weight to cattle, in studies it was shown to cause a drastic reduction in fat with a miniscule gain in muscle. Cattle treated with this drug would have to stay on feed much longer meaning a higher cost per day for less money at point of sale. So it would not be used for profitability.
Next, because of the short life of the drug it would have to have been injected just before slaughter, again there would be no benefit to giving a drug at this time, especially one with the intention of changing the vody compostion. You cannot change fat to muscle in the last hour of life, that is ridiculous again you would just be removing profit. However with the stringent point of origin tracking in Spain not just for the carcass but with the individual cuts of meat, you could lose your herd and your living very easily. For what end would you take this risk? LESS money? this is why the beef industry is outraged they were thrown under the bus by adesperate little man for something they know is impossible in Spain.
Additionally the drug would remain in the liver and not reach the meat itself, so it is impossible to get the drug by eating a steak in the manner & situation put forth by Mr Contador.

There has been no evidence of Clenbuterol contamination outside of third world countries with primitive testing & conditions. If you had a sick cow in Mexico from poor conditions you might shoot it full of Clenbuterol to try & keep it from dying before it is processed. If it died, i am sure it would be processed there anyway and no one is going to test the meat. So in a situation like that, where people consume a sick cow that died shortly after being injected AND those people ate the liver contamination is plausible.

But that situation is not the one described by Alberto and again in no way shape or form is his alibi based in reality or have any degree of plausability.
I tried to 'splain that to the boys in Lycruh but they didn't get it. Then they said that that little bitty bit of Clen couldn't help their boy win so it can't be 'a counted then they a'said his contrack for lebenty billion Euros couldent be legul in other courts but he could keep da money. A-hem with you...the boy's fibbin'.
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
I can intimately understand 'team-building', but I'm not sure about the value of half-surfing and rocking out to an accordian.

Whatever happen to the Polish (the country, not the innane poster) model of running through the woods in the snow and chopping down trees for a winter camp?

All I'm saying is that based on the current top riders' salaries, maybe they need to be exposed to a little grunt-work to gain perspective (and to build a bond) with the guys who are going to HAVE to throw it down and give up their results potential for the team leader.

Oh yeah, I forgot this was the new culture of pro cycling. Forget the blue-collar nature of what it was, now we have to make sure the millionaire pansies get a nice holiday at their 'training camp' and all in the name of 'team building'.

What in the hell is the point of this? Here are your teammates, let's go have some fun... And, apparently, we're supposed to find this interesting?

If even half of the cycling media paid half the interest in doping that they do on these pointless 'camps' we might be getting somewhere.

Oh, wait... I forgot that at actually digging for a story (and stepping on the golden gooses' toes) isn't nearly as pleasant as getting an 'invite' to report on this new era of 'training camp'.

Boo on the doping culture in cycling. And another Boo on this being perceived as being important news.

What a bunch of spoiled brats...
Are you jealous?
Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?
 
runninboy said:
OK, I know a little about the beef industry, as my family has been in that business for over 40 years.
All of your support for AC is so misguided if you knew how utterly impossible it would be for his story to be true.

First of all to counter your statement, drugs are not used unethically in the beef industry. Let me point to AC's fairy tale as an example.

Clenbuterol does not add weight to cattle, in studies it was shown to cause a drastic reduction in fat with a miniscule gain in muscle. Cattle treated with this drug would have to stay on feed much longer meaning a higher cost per day for less money at point of sale. So it would not be used for profitability.
Next, because of the short life of the drug it would have to have been injected just before slaughter, again there would be no benefit to giving a drug at this time, especially one with the intention of changing the vody compostion. You cannot change fat to muscle in the last hour of life, that is ridiculous again you would just be removing profit. However with the stringent point of origin tracking in Spain not just for the carcass but with the individual cuts of meat, you could lose your herd and your living very easily. For what end would you take this risk? LESS money? this is why the beef industry is outraged they were thrown under the bus by adesperate little man for something they know is impossible in Spain.
Additionally the drug would remain in the liver and not reach the meat itself, so it is impossible to get the drug by eating a steak in the manner & situation put forth by Mr Contador.

There has been no evidence of Clenbuterol contamination outside of third world countries with primitive testing & conditions. If you had a sick cow in Mexico from poor conditions you might shoot it full of Clenbuterol to try & keep it from dying before it is processed. If it died, i am sure it would be processed there anyway and no one is going to test the meat. So in a situation like that, where people consume a sick cow that died shortly after being injected AND those people ate the liver contamination is plausible.

But that situation is not the one described by Alberto and again in no way shape or form is his alibi based in reality or have any degree of plausability.
I guess I'm confused. Didn't the Spanish government bust a clenbuterol ring recently (October 2010) involving veterinarians (horses and livestock)? http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/10/news/spanish-police-uncover-clenbuterol-ring-used-in-horses-livestock_147239 This is not withstanding the ban against the use of clenbuterol in livestock.

And isn't clenbuterol supposed to produce leaner cuts/improve muscle-to-fat ratio? This snippet from this book (Principles of Cattle Production) http://books.google.com/books?id=UT3QrcXtFdMC&lpg=PA30&ots=bwY1lXDRub&dq=effect%20of%20clenbuterol%20in%20cattle%20production&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q=effect%20of%20clenbuterol%20in%20cattle%20production&f=false suggests that clenbuterol often results in "feed conversion efficiency ... often increas[ing] by about 10%." If I read that correctly, that suggests that a rancher gets more growth out of his normal feed by using clenbuterol. It also suggests that clenbuterol reduces intramuscular fat by 30%, while increasing protein deposits by 10-15%. So less fat and more meat.

It seems that the drug is used over a period of time and then stopped a few days prior to slaughter to allow for it to clear the system, rather than being "injected just before slaughter" as you suggested. The lean muscle would be retained, with little, if any of the clenbuterol still being in the animal's system (eyes and liver would still have traces). Moreover, if it leaves the system quickly and therefor isn't found in the carcass in significant quantities, what good would the tracing do? Unless the EU retains the eyes and liver, tracking the carcass seems pointless. [This fact also argues against AC's defense in my opinion.]

Finally, if it didn't have an effect on the yield why would a rancher use it? It was used enough at one time, with enough undesirable effects on humans that consumed the meat, that it was banned by the EU and US. And as the German athlete found out it is still used in China. http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/348873,sets-precedent-feature.html

Now I'll be the first to admit I know absolutely nothing about raising cattle for slaughter, and what little I knowledge I have is limited to a very cursory google search. But I can't help but think that you aren't as knowledgeable about the beef industry, at least as it relates to the use of clenbuterol in livestock, as you suggest. So perhaps you can clarify things a bit for us novices and naifs. Thanks in advance.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Publicus said:
I guess I'm confused. Didn't the Spanish government bust a clenbuterol ring recently (October 2010) involving veterinarians (horses and livestock)? http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/10/news/spanish-police-uncover-clenbuterol-ring-used-in-horses-livestock_147239 This is not withstanding the ban against the use of clenbuterol in livestock.

And isn't clenbuterol supposed to produce leaner cuts/improve muscle-to-fat ratio? This snippet from this book (Principles of Cattle Production) http://books.google.com/books?id=UT3QrcXtFdMC&lpg=PA30&ots=bwY1lXDRub&dq=effect%20of%20clenbuterol%20in%20cattle%20production&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q=effect%20of%20clenbuterol%20in%20cattle%20production&f=false suggests that clenbuterol often results in "feed conversion efficiency ... often increas[ing] by about 10%." If I read that correctly, that suggests that a rancher gets more growth out of his normal feed by using clenbuterol. It also suggests that clenbuterol reduces intramuscular fat by 30%, while increasing protein deposits by 10-15%. So less fat and more meat.

It seems that the drug is used over a period of time and then stopped a few days prior to slaughter to allow for it to clear the system, rather than being "injected just before slaughter" as you suggested. The lean muscle would be retained, with little, if any of the clenbuterol still being in the animal's system (eyes and liver would still have traces). Moreover, if it leaves the system quickly and therefor isn't found in the carcass in significant quantities, what good would the tracing do? Unless the EU retains the eyes and liver, tracking the carcass seems pointless. [This fact also argues against AC's defense in my opinion.]

Finally, if it didn't have an effect on the yield why would a rancher use it? It was used enough at one time, with enough undesirable effects on humans that consumed the meat, that it was banned by the EU and US. And as the German athlete found out it is still used in China. http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/348873,sets-precedent-feature.html

Now I'll be the first to admit I know absolutely nothing about raising cattle for slaughter, and what little I knowledge I have is limited to a very cursory google search. But I can't help but think that you aren't as knowledgeable about the beef industry, at least as it relates to the use of clenbuterol in livestock, as you suggest. So perhaps you can clarify things a bit for us novices and naifs. Thanks in advance.
Ok i will try to clarify
First the controlled studies that i have seen showed only at most a 2% muscle gain to 30-40 percent fat reduction. In the average size carcass that would mean a loss of about 10 lbs.

the bust of "livestock" that i read, firstly was only carried by cycling outlets, it was not on a wire service. the only link i could find was a small news outlet in the Canaries. In addition cattle were not mentioned only racehorses. Since it opens up the air passages it is illegal to use in horses, i surmise they didnt ship the drug to the race track where it would be easy to put 2 & 2 together, and probably not to the horse farm.
Again i saw no mention of cattle only "livestock".

Now as to being banned in the EU, i never mentioned hogs did I? they are a different animal which has different problems. they are raised in confined spaces and tend to be too fatty. Clenbuterol would be an asset to them, When food safety laws are passed i think they tend to err on the side of more regulation, so passing a law outlawing a substance in food animals often times is preemptive.

While China might use CB in sick cattle as i described, it also has plenty of food safety problems as does mexico. Think of all the lead in various candies, and foods that have been found coming from these two countries. I would not say it is well regulated or safe.

The meat tracing system in Spain is used not just for Clenbuterol but many other reasons. And if someone used it to treat a sick cow and butchered it, it would be traceable.
Follow my reasoning here for a moment, if the Clenbuterol WAS to be in the meat as AC claimed, he would have to have ingested a traceable amount. WHICH would mean the cow was injected just before slaughter. If it was not enough to be traceable, ie in a systemic "doping " of the cow, than he would not have any Clenbuterol in his system.

does that make sense to you ?

Again if his story were to be true, the rancher would almost certainly have to inject the cow just before slaughter, as in a sick cow. If he didnt there would be no "contaminated" meat...
 
May 8, 2009
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Publicus said:
I guess I'm confused. Didn't the Spanish government bust a clenbuterol ring recently (October 2010) involving veterinarians (horses and livestock)? http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/10/news/spanish-police-uncover-clenbuterol-ring-used-in-horses-livestock_147239 This is not withstanding the ban against the use of clenbuterol in livestock.

And isn't clenbuterol supposed to produce leaner cuts/improve muscle-to-fat ratio? This snippet from this book (Principles of Cattle Production) http://books.google.com/books?id=UT3QrcXtFdMC&lpg=PA30&ots=bwY1lXDRub&dq=effect%20of%20clenbuterol%20in%20cattle%20production&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q=effect%20of%20clenbuterol%20in%20cattle%20production&f=false suggests that clenbuterol often results in "feed conversion efficiency ... often increas[ing] by about 10%." If I read that correctly, that suggests that a rancher gets more growth out of his normal feed by using clenbuterol. It also suggests that clenbuterol reduces intramuscular fat by 30%, while increasing protein deposits by 10-15%. So less fat and more meat.

It seems that the drug is used over a period of time and then stopped a few days prior to slaughter to allow for it to clear the system, rather than being "injected just before slaughter" as you suggested. The lean muscle would be retained, with little, if any of the clenbuterol still being in the animal's system (eyes and liver would still have traces). Moreover, if it leaves the system quickly and therefor isn't found in the carcass in significant quantities, what good would the tracing do? Unless the EU retains the eyes and liver, tracking the carcass seems pointless. [This fact also argues against AC's defense in my opinion.]

Finally, if it didn't have an effect on the yield why would a rancher use it? It was used enough at one time, with enough undesirable effects on humans that consumed the meat, that it was banned by the EU and US. And as the German athlete found out it is still used in China. http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/348873,sets-precedent-feature.html

Now I'll be the first to admit I know absolutely nothing about raising cattle for slaughter, and what little I knowledge I have is limited to a very cursory google search. But I can't help but think that you aren't as knowledgeable about the beef industry, at least as it relates to the use of clenbuterol in livestock, as you suggest. So perhaps you can clarify things a bit for us novices and naifs. Thanks in advance.
With horses--> they go faster, just as Contador :)

With cows--> those nuts use clemb with young cattle, way before slaughtering. The clemb has low life--> Contador could not have got clemb from a cow, that would be ridiculous.

Aside from that I am not sure they used clemb with cows in the Canaries, I just heard of horses, which makes more sense to me given the controls, the infinitesimal size of the cattle industry in the Canaries and the dubious profitability.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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runninboy said:
Ok i will try to clarify
First the controlled studies that i have seen showed only at most a 2% muscle gain to 30-40 percent fat reduction. In the average size carcass that would mean a loss of about 10 lbs.

the bust of "livestock" that i read, firstly was only carried by cycling outlets, it was not on a wire service. the only link i could find was a small news outlet in the Canaries. In addition cattle were not mentioned only racehorses. Since it opens up the air passages it is illegal to use in horses, i surmise they didnt ship the drug to the race track where it would be easy to put 2 & 2 together, and probably not to the horse farm.
Again i saw no mention of cattle only "livestock".

Now as to being banned in the EU, i never mentioned hogs did I? they are a different animal which has different problems. they are raised in confined spaces and tend to be too fatty. Clenbuterol would be an asset to them, When food safety laws are passed i think they tend to err on the side of more regulation, so passing a law outlawing a substance in food animals often times is preemptive.

While China might use CB in sick cattle as i described, it also has plenty of food safety problems as does mexico. Think of all the lead in various candies, and foods that have been found coming from these two countries. I would not say it is well regulated or safe.

The meat tracing system in Spain is used not just for Clenbuterol but many other reasons. And if someone used it to treat a sick cow and butchered it, it would be traceable.
Follow my reasoning here for a moment, if the Clenbuterol WAS to be in the meat as AC claimed, he would have to have ingested a traceable amount. WHICH would mean the cow was injected just before slaughter. If it was not enough to be traceable, ie in a systemic "doping " of the cow, than he would not have any Clenbuterol in his system.

does that make sense to you ?

Again if his story were to be true, the rancher would almost certainly have to inject the cow just before slaughter, as in a sick cow. If he didnt there would be no "contaminated" meat...
Interesting. Sounds plausible to me, and it corresponds to the results of meat-testing done over the last few years in the EU and Spain: no CLEN ever popped up in any piece of meat.
If CLENtador is let off the hook, he's just another lucky *******.
 
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runninboy said:
There has been no evidence of Clenbuterol contamination outside of third world countries with primitive testing & conditions. If you had a sick cow in Mexico from poor conditions you might shoot it full of Clenbuterol to try & keep it from dying before it is processed. If it died, i am sure it would be processed there anyway and no one is going to test the meat. So in a situation like that, where people consume a sick cow that died shortly after being injected AND those people ate the liver contamination is plausible.
While I agree with the essence of your analysis (that Contador's defense is ridiculous, and the insinuations it makes about Spanish beef unsupportable), it is the case that in the mid 1990's there were in Spain some incidents of clenbuterol poisoning from eating parts of cows, albeit things like livers.
 

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