Can Contador just shut up and go away?

Oct 29, 2009
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This from the latest article:

“After winning two Tours, a Giro and a Vuelta with them, they haven’t even issued a statement of support,” Contador complained. “And I haven’t been paid since September.”

Why would your team issue a statement of support after you tested positive and the case is still ongoing? How would they definitively know you didn't dope when scientific evidence says exactly the opposite. He's pretty ignorant to think that his team should back him up. And as far as not being paid? It's pretty standard procedure that a team stops paying you when you test positive.

And stop the "I've never tested positive before" excuse. Like Lance, that is beyond lame. If I get pulled over and cited for speeding, I really don't think I can go to court and say "Well judge, I couldn't have been speeding because I've never had a speeding ticket before."

These are exactly the reasons the general public cannot take professional cycling seriously. Athletes like Contador and Lance continue to insult our intelligence while believing that what they say is actually believable to others.
 
May 24, 2010
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Maybe the reason Jan walked away was because he knew they had bags full of his blood in their possession.
I'm glad you guys seem to really be enjoying all this cleaning up of the sport. It sure is making for a healthy state of affairs.
I, for one, think the whole thing is destroying the sports credibility, and pushing away many who don't wish to be a part of this incredibly dysfunctional environment. Unfortunately for me, like being addicted to drugs, it's hard to pull away from being a fan. A fan who has gone to France, and followed the Tour into Paris, riding on the cobbles of the Champs Elysees. But the past few years have turned me off in so many ways to the Pro game.
Be patient grasshopper, Alberto will go down. I don't agree with it, but it will happen. We are seeing the lines solidify. What with Lord McQuaid stating that if he doesn't like the Spanish decision they will appeal to CAS. It's almost a slam dunk at this point. But keep in mind, It's just not healthy for you to get so wound up over it, you can't control it anyway, so relax, unclench your jaws.
What the Clenbuterol did for AC is anybody's guess anyway (and God knows, there are plenty of guesses being made, along with judgements being passed) But, he will be executed for "DOPING" whatever the heck that means these days. All I know is that this sport ain't doin' it for me, in the direction that it is going. Now all I've got to do is make a decision to enter rehab to get over this addiction. But I'll bet it ain't nothing riding MY Bike, and going Skiing can't cure.:cool:
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Alberto has a lot of nerve, after the way he "strung along" the Astana Team and Management in the run up and during the TdF. Shot them in the back bang bang. I warned before the TdF began that Alberto should be wary of having his food "poisoned" by Vino at a team dinner - as it was becoming increasingly obvious that Alberto and Fran were milking the Astana Team for all they were worth....

We have to wonder if Alberto will return the TdF prize money if he gets stipped of the title. Half a milion euro plus.

Also, didn't Alberto have a clause in his contract that he could ditch the team if any riders were caught doping? Maybe Astana is assuming Alberto has activated that clause lol. bye bye bang bang.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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nowhereman said:
Maybe the reason Jan walked away was because he knew they had bags full of his blood in their possession.
Maybe it was, but the bottom line is that he spared us the delays and the lame excuses that have turned so many other cases into circus acts. That if anything is what is destroying the sport.
nowhereman said:
I'm glad you guys seem to really be enjoying all this cleaning up of the sport. It sure is making for a healthy state of affairs.
I, for one, think the whole thing is destroying the sports credibility, and pushing away many who don't wish to be a part of this incredibly dysfunctional environment.
Short term pain in the pursuit of long term gain? The status quo isn't acceptable, except to Pat.
 
Oct 11, 2010
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nowhereman said:
Be patient grasshopper, Alberto will go down. I don't agree with it, but it will happen.
What exactly don't you agree with? The sanctioning of a rider who was found positive for a banned substance? What would you suggest?
 
May 24, 2010
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Conspiracy Theory

Polish said:
I warned before the TdF began that Alberto should be wary of having his food "poisoned" by Vino at a team dinner -
QUOTE]

Ok so now we are getting somewhere here.
 
May 24, 2010
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Conspiracy Theory

Polish said:
I warned before the TdF began that Alberto should be wary of having his food "poisoned" by Vino at a team dinner - as it was becoming increasingly obvious that Alberto and Fran were milking the Astana Team for all they were worth....QUOTE]

Ok so now we are getting to the bottem of this fiasco.... I wonder how they got the plastisizers in his blood too????
 
Stop being such yahoos about this. Some of you have lost all perspective.


Such a meaningless trace amount shouldn't be enough to strip Contador of his Tour title.

Sorry for all you guys who think this will clean up the sport, but it won't.

It just gives the other teams a heads-up in terms of how to properly remove and administer transfused blood.

Given what's gone on in pro cycling in the last 15-20 years, this is absolutely ludicrous.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Berzin said:
Stop being such yahoos about this. Some of you have lost all perspective.

It shouldn't matter if clenbutarol was found in his system. What matters is the amount.

And such a meaningless trace shouldn't be enough to strip Contador of his Tour title.

Sorry for all you guys who think this will clean up the sport, but it won't.

It just gives the other teams a heads-up in terms of how to properly remove and administer transfused blood.
Thats' good as I was worried I might receive a suspension after a "surprise test" after a club ride. Can you recommend how long it takes for clen to leave the system before a withdrawal?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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nowhereman said:
Maybe the reason Jan walked away was because he knew they had bags full of his blood in their possession.
I'm glad you guys seem to really be enjoying all this cleaning up of the sport. It sure is making for a healthy state of affairs.
I, for one, think the whole thing is destroying the sports credibility, and pushing away many who don't wish to be a part of this incredibly dysfunctional environment. Unfortunately for me, like being addicted to drugs, it's hard to pull away from being a fan. A fan who has gone to France, and followed the Tour into Paris, riding on the cobbles of the Champs Elysees. But the past few years have turned me off in so many ways to the Pro game.
Be patient grasshopper, Alberto will go down. I don't agree with it, but it will happen. We are seeing the lines solidify. What with Lord McQuaid stating that if he doesn't like the Spanish decision they will appeal to CAS. It's almost a slam dunk at this point. But keep in mind, It's just not healthy for you to get so wound up over it, you can't control it anyway, so relax, unclench your jaws.
What the Clenbuterol did for AC is anybody's guess anyway (and God knows, there are plenty of guesses being made, along with judgements being passed) But, he will be executed for "DOPING" whatever the heck that means these days. All I know is that this sport ain't doin' it for me, in the direction that it is going. Now all I've got to do is make a decision to enter rehab to get over this addiction. But I'll bet it ain't nothing riding MY Bike, and going Skiing can't cure.:cool:


Nowhere: Your bike and skiing are the cure, definitely.
As for all of this "destroying the credibility"; most don't relish the amount of blood being shed IMO, but the credibility was lost years ago. While Contador's bust seems relatively minor there is no way WADA, UCI or anyone is going to catch a rider with a IV in his arm which is apparently the litmus test that will convince everyone. That's like ignoring the blips on a Geiger counter until the nuclear suitcase bomb goes off....
 
Berzin said:
Stop being such yahoos about this. Some of you have lost all perspective.


Such a meaningless trace amount shouldn't be enough to strip Contador of his Tour title.

Sorry for all you guys who think this will clean up the sport, but it won't.

It just gives the other teams a heads-up in terms of how to properly remove and administer transfused blood.

Given what's gone on in pro cycling in the last 15-20 years, this is absolutely ludicrous.
PEDs are not used in isolation. The chances that Contador willingly used clenbuterol but was clean otherwise are zero.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Berzin said:
Stop being such yahoos about this. Some of you have lost all perspective.


Such a meaningless trace amount shouldn't be enough to strip Contador of his Tour title.

Sorry for all you guys who think this will clean up the sport, but it won't.

It just gives the other teams a heads-up in terms of how to properly remove and administer transfused blood.

Given what's gone on in pro cycling in the last 15-20 years, this is absolutely ludicrous.
There will always be some sloppy hack doctor that will blow it for great champions like Hamilton, Landis and Contador. I am sure that any doctor up to snuff would know when the last time contador used clen would know when to make a withdrawal. That is why there is denial with guys like Vino,Landis,Hamilton,Contador. These guys were manipulating their organisms for years and getting away with it.
 
May 3, 2010
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Berzin said:
Stop being such yahoos about this. Some of you have lost all perspective.


Such a meaningless trace amount shouldn't be enough to strip Contador of his Tour title.

Sorry for all you guys who think this will clean up the sport, but it won't.

It just gives the other teams a heads-up in terms of how to properly remove and administer transfused blood.

Given what's gone on in pro cycling in the last 15-20 years, this is absolutely ludicrous.
You have to come to reality, if he got caught for clen than more than likely he just got away with everything else in his program. Contador has to be treated just like any other doper. If it was lance I am sure you would say it is enough to take his tour title. So don't be a hypocrite.

I understand it is difficult to accept when you are the captain of his fan club. In a couple years he will have his chance to come back clean and show us if he can still do it.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Berzin said:
Stop being such yahoos about this. Some of you have lost all perspective.


Such a meaningless trace amount shouldn't be enough to strip Contador of his Tour title.

Sorry for all you guys who think this will clean up the sport, but it won't.

It just gives the other teams a heads-up in terms of how to properly remove and administer transfused blood.

Given what's gone on in pro cycling in the last 15-20 years, this is absolutely ludicrous.
You sort of just answered your own question. You can't complain about Contador being stripped of his Tour title for trace amounts of Clenbuteral, and then insinuate that he's also blood doping.

You're right, though. It is ludicrous that after what's gone on in pro cycling the last 15-20 years that an athlete like Contador still thinks he can get away with doping.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Berzin said:
Stop being such yahoos about this. Some of you have lost all perspective.


Such a meaningless trace amount shouldn't be enough to strip Contador of his Tour title.

Sorry for all you guys who think this will clean up the sport, but it won't.

It just gives the other teams a heads-up in terms of how to properly remove and administer transfused blood.

Given what's gone on in pro cycling in the last 15-20 years, this is absolutely ludicrous.
It is the mere insignificance of the the drug that makes me wonder a few things.
If the minimum detection threshold is so much higher than what they found it makes me wonder why the sensitivity of the test was so high?
Were they thinking AC was playing with his values so they started looking for anything at all?
The transfusion theory has some traction in the media but it was not well enough developed to make a doping case?
I agree that in the absence of other evidence of doping that this amount should not be considered a doping offence. Trace amounts of a banned substance that other tests prove were never at a cheating level IE the day before the test was clean and the day after the test was lower level. But what were the plasticizers the day before? The day of the test and the day after. That can give the significance of the Clenbuteral a whole lot different .
Without all the evidence available to us armchair doping control officers are basing most of this discussion on how we feel about it.
 
Apr 13, 2010
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I'm not going to say I'm convinced he's innocent, but I'm far from convinced he's guilty as well - and that's the key problem Berzin is pointing to about the clen positive; that it's not very significant on it's own (and forget the plastic, cos no official party has confirmed it and so it's only rumour for the moment).

If all they have actually ever found in him is a tiny bit of clen, then this case will not do anything for fight against doping other than underline the situation that we have a bunch of people firing in the dark against anything that moves cos they need to show they're doing something but have no idea what and how to do it. Oh yeah, for the same reason we can only fire at the famous riders if somebody hears about it...

MAYBE the reason he feels he's lacking support from Astana -and complains about money not paid - is because he's actually innocent. Just maybe...

I haven't heard him say "I never tested positive", what I have heard though is him saying he's never doped, never done anything wrong and that he therefore feels very disillusioned with the whole situation and most of the time feels like hanging up his boots (or bike as it may be). Incidentally to my mind the last bit is NOT to "threaten that if he gets suspended he will stop".

To be honest I don't think the case is very clear cut and I think most of his behaviour and comments are in line with what would come from an innocent person.
 
Jan 5, 2010
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Master50 said:
It is the mere insignificance of the the drug that makes me wonder a few things.
If the minimum detection threshold is so much higher than what they found it makes me wonder why the sensitivity of the test was so high?
Were they thinking AC was playing with his values so they started looking for anything at all?
The transfusion theory has some traction in the media but it was not well enough developed to make a doping case?I agree that in the absence of other evidence of doping that this amount should not be considered a doping offence. Trace amounts of a banned substance that other tests prove were never at a cheating level IE the day before the test was clean and the day after the test was lower level. But what were the plasticizers the day before? The day of the test and the day after. That can give the significance of the Clenbuteral a whole lot different .
Without all the evidence available to us armchair doping control officers are basing most of this discussion on how we feel about it.
Doping is doping! Intent can be argued all day long, but the illegal substance was in his system and the fact that it has been reported that he also tested positive for plasticizers, in my mind, pretty much proves his intent. He was cheating! From what I understand of the Floyd Landis case, it is a very similar scenario. In that both cases it looks like transfused blood is the culprit. Floyd claims that he doped, but didn’t use a patch. Whether or not Alberto took the clenbuteral during the Tour is meaningless since at some point during his training it appears he did indeed take the drug and subsequently had his blood drawn to be used during the Tour. Perhaps bad timing but, his intent was to gain an unfair advantage. And as far as I know, blood doping is illegal and will get you kicked out of the Tour.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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jmax22 said:
You sort of just answered your own question. You can't complain about Contador being stripped of his Tour title for trace amounts of Clenbuteral, and then insinuate that he's also blood doping.

You're right, though. It is ludicrous that after what's gone on in pro cycling the last 15-20 years that an athlete like Contador still thinks he can get away with doping.
haha, so true.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Yes, he should shut up.

He seems to be in some delusional world where he can expect a hearing at which he can defend himself. What sort of world of his is this?
 

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