Can Sagan win the 2012 TdF points Jersey?

[barn yard]

It was no Ferrari.

that is true but also the giro is not the tour

remember renshaw getting sent home for a pretty legit headbutt?!

i think 30pts and relegation is a fair call - finally the comms had the balls to enforce the rules of sprinting

 

[Netserk]

LOL! stupid move from Goss, and an even more stupid decision to take 30 points from him. I simply don't understand why he didn't get relegated to the back of the MJ group. Without losing the 30 points, but only the points of the 6th place.

 

[will10]

There is a precedent in this situation that has been applied for years.

Goss finishes 6th, is adjudged to have blocked/impeded Sagan, so should lose 6th and be relegated to the back of the group (41st). The jury should be applying some common sense and treating Sagan and Goss as part of the first peloton despite the one second gap. So Goss should lose 15 points, Sagan promoted to 6th.

As it is they've penalised him twice what he gained. This has never been the case before, have the rules changed?

 

[Magnus]

The jury should be applying some common sense and treating Sagan and Goss as part of the first peloton despite the one second gap.

A jury doesn't use common sense. It use the rules. As it should.

 

[Magnus]

It was no Ferrari.

It wasn't. But that happened in the chaos of a mass sprint.
Completely different from this sprint where two riders had a wide road to sprint on.

 

[will10]

A jury doesn't use common sense. It use the rules. As it should.

So have the rules changed?

 

[El Oso]

LOL! stupid move from Goss, and an even more stupid decision to take 30 points from him. I simply don't understand why he didn't get relegated to the back of the MJ group. Without losing the 30 points, but only the points of the 6th place.

Exactly. While he did impede Sagan's progress and should be relegated for that, I don't see the move as reckless or malicious. He veered sharply but didn't chop wheels.

 

[BigPhil3]

I do like that Goss' response is basically "Well yeah I got in his way, but it wasn't as bad as it looks." I guess that is how you say you did the wrong thing without actually admitting it.

 

[movingtarget]

Exactly. While he did impede Sagan's progress and should be relegated for that, I don't see the move as reckless or malicious. He veered sharply but didn't chop wheels.

I suppose if they relegate him they should also dock him some points but only the ones he earned on that sprint. That would be fairer along with a fine. Docking points he has already earned is unfair. Sagan reacted like a drama queen. It was wrong but the sanction was excessive. Basically has now killed off any interest in the points jersey. Goss can now concentrate on stage wins only.

 

[markjohnconley]

Dumb move by Goss, he had it, didn't need to move. Sagan, like diving in football, emotional young man.

 

[wirral]

Right decision by the jury. Sprinting is dangerous enough without moves like that, even if the move was partially subconscious.

I don't think the response of Sagan was overly dramatic. If he had not reacted so well he would have been bouncing along the road at 60 - 75 km/h. I have yet to see a sprinter who reacts in a calm, resigned or pragmatic manner in the heat of the moment when cut off. See Goss himself, Cavendish, Petacchi, Renshaw, and so on.

 

[greenedge better then some]

gc is over,now green is over tops off a less then stunning tour imo... feel sorry for goss as he had sagan easy

 

[cabbagetom]

There is a precedent in this situation that has been applied for years.

Goss finishes 6th, is adjudged to have blocked/impeded Sagan, so should lose 6th and be relegated to the back of the group (41st). The jury should be applying some common sense and treating Sagan and Goss as part of the first peloton despite the one second gap. So Goss should lose 15 points, Sagan promoted to 6th.

As it is they've penalised him twice what he gained. This has never been the case before, have the rules changed?

But by not treating him as part of the peloton, he is moved to 7th, and hence he gains 13 points:

6 Peter Sagan (Svk) Liquigas-Cannondale 15
7 Matthew Harley Goss (Aus) Orica GreenEdge Cycling Team 13

This however, seems too light a punishment; therefore an extra 30 point penalty is applied. The net loss is 17 points, similar to the 15 it would have been had he been relegated to the back of the peloton.

 

[CobbleStoner]

gc is over,now green is over tops off a less then stunning tour imo... feel sorry for goss as he had sagan easy

how did he have him 'easy'? Goss felt and saw him coming fast and had to do something quick to keep him from going past. if you read the Goss interview carefully, Goss knew exactly what he was doing and thought that it wasn't enough to be relegated for. well, what is enough? it made Sagan stop sprinting for a split second to avoid crashing. I think that is cheating much more than eating a steak, or taking cold medicine, or going on holiday.

 

[slartiblartfast]

The question is now - can Sagan not win the points jersey?

 

[royalpig180]

But by not treating him as part of the peloton, he is moved to 7th, and hence he gains 13 points:

6 Peter Sagan (Svk) Liquigas-Cannondale 15
7 Matthew Harley Goss (Aus) Orica GreenEdge Cycling Team 13

This however, seems too light a punishment; therefore an extra 30 point penalty is applied. The net loss is 17 points, similar to the 15 it would have been had he been relegated to the back of the peloton.

Math's a little off here...

Had there been no relegation, Goss gets 15 in the sprint and Sagan gets 13. Goss got 13 points instead of 15 in addition to the 30 point penalty. That's a net loss of 32 points.

 

[will10]

But by not treating him as part of the peloton, he is moved to 7th, and hence he gains 13 points:

6 Peter Sagan (Svk) Liquigas-Cannondale 15
7 Matthew Harley Goss (Aus) Orica GreenEdge Cycling Team 13

This however, seems too light a punishment; therefore an extra 30 point penalty is applied. The net loss is 17 points, similar to the 15 it would have been had he been relegated to the back of the peloton.

Cmon man, it's not rocket science. Goss should've scored zero, not minus 17.

 

[cabbagetom]

Math's a little off here...

Had there been no relegation, Goss gets 15 in the sprint and Sagan gets 13. Goss got 13 points instead of 15 in addition to the 30 point penalty. That's a net loss of 32 points.

No no. My point is, some people are suggesting Goss should not have been docked 30 points and should have been sent to the back of the peloton (the whole peloton, not him and Sagan's mini group). This scenario would have lost Goss 15 points (The 15 points he gained from 6th Place)

In fact, what happened was he was only sent down to 7th place from 6th place (Thereby losing 2 points, he goes from 15 points to 13). However, this punishment is not severe enough. Hence he is docked 30 points. He gets +13 and -30, a net loss of 17.

So scenario one is a loss of 15 points, scenario two is a loss of 17 points. Not that big a difference...

 

[cabbagetom]

Math's a little off here...

Had there been no relegation, Goss gets 15 in the sprint and Sagan gets 13. Goss got 13 points instead of 15 in addition to the 30 point penalty. That's a net loss of 32 points.

No no. My point is, some people are suggesting Goss should not have been docked 30 points and should have been sent to the back of the peloton (the whole peloton, not him and Sagan's mini group). This scenario would have lost Goss 15 points (The 15 points he gained from 6th Place)

In fact, what happened was he was only sent down to 7th place from 6th place (Thereby losing 2 points, he goes from 15 points to 13). However, this punishment is not severe enough. Hence he is docked 30 points. He gets +13 and -30, a net loss of 17.

So scenario one is a loss of 0 points, scenario two is a loss of 17 points. It is not a net loss of 32 points...

Cmon man, it's not rocket science. Goss should've scored zero, not minus 17.

Agreed, 0 would have been fairer. But loss of 17 does not equal loss of 30/32 like some are suggesting

 

[snackattack]

‘I don’t think he’s stronger than me'

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...think-hes-stronger-than-me.aspx#ixzz20f2Ku83A

 

[snackattack]

Sagan - 'the cleaner'

 

[snackattack]

Panda is going to clean up shop today

 

[snackattack]

the hedunit as party trick.

 

[snackattack]

Points leader in line to collect on bet made with Liquigas team boss.

Sagan set to win Porsche in Paris

`In the time trial I will hold back some energy for the sprint on the final day´

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-set-to-win-porsche-in-paris

 

[El Pistolero]

Lol, they're going to make him spoiled.